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  • Put up or shut up

    I've been seeing in the paper, TV, this forum, etc how things are going downhill from global warning, cheap illegal labor force, dependency on foreign material, welfare, etc. Point being, what are you doing as an individual about it? I'm not talking about lobbying at congress or raising a million dollars for greenpeace. I'm talking about simple things that if we all did, the compounding effect would be enormous.

    -when I go to grainger and they tell me that there is an american made equivilant, I buy that product even though it cost more.
    -I switched brands of gas away from shell when I recently found out(through this forum) how much oil they get from the middle east.
    -I do recycle(not just copper either)
    -I try to buy consumables in bulk packages so less waste is produced.
    -I check my tire pressure reducing excess fuel and saves me money
    There are countless other small thing we can do and these were just some examples

    These things aren't strenuous or require a lot of effort, just a little careful forthought on my part. Doing these small things doesn't allow me to pass judgement on anyone and that's not what this thread is about. The same people that whine and complain about these things are often the same people that do nothing about it, they just sit and whine about it and expect the government to fix everything.

    So which one are you? A talker or a doer?
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

  • #2
    Re: Put up or shut up

    We recycle.

    Use florescent lighting where possible. (turn them off when not in room)

    Use a set-back thermostat.

    Try and buy American when possible.

    Drive the car at 60 if possible.

    Keep the car tuned up.

    Probably more but can't think right now.

    shup

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Put up or shut up

      Oh I'm a doer alright, no sense on even making a list, way to long. But our main problems are the third world countries. Dang, just take a look at all that smoke coming from those motorcycles, over there. Plus their factories, no regulations or hardly any regulations. No matter what, I will continue to play my small effort in our global problem.

      We as Americans also need to curb our unnecessary consumption of fuel. My sister bought a scooter yesterday, me I want a golf cart to get around our small town. Magnetic train transportation would be cool, do away with airplanes other then to go oversea. We have had this conversation many of times and we will continue too. But there are those who just absolutely refuse to see that this is a problem.

      I just cannot understand that, theres over whelming evidence that we're hurting our planet. If we don't change our ways, my grandchildren and great grandchildren will hate us and always blame us, for our greed and the consumption of our resources.
      Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

      http://www.contractorspub.com

      A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

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      • #4
        Re: Put up or shut up

        that tv program "Natioal geographics" did a special on a magtrain that runs between tokyo and its airport, explained from conception to installation , was pretty intersting,

        §m€llŸ™

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        • #5
          Re: Put up or shut up

          Originally posted by garager View Post
          Oh I'm a doer alright, no sense on even making a list, way to long. But our main problems are the third world countries. Dang, just take a look at all that smoke coming from those motorcycles, over there. Plus their factories, no regulations or hardly any regulations. No matter what, I will continue to play my small effort in our global problem.

          We as Americans also need to curb our unnecessary consumption of fuel. My sister bought a scooter yesterday, me I want a golf cart to get around our small town. Magnetic train transportation would be cool, do away with airplanes other then to go oversea. We have had this conversation many of times and we will continue too. But there are those who just absolutely refuse to see that this is a problem.

          I just cannot understand that, theres over whelming evidence that we're hurting our planet. If we don't change our ways, my grandchildren and great grandchildren will hate us and always blame us, for our greed and the consumption of our resources.
          Garager, I'm with you and the others with doing what I can to conserve. It's kind of tough sometimes because many of us ended up living a distance from shopping, schools and other places we need to be. When I was a kid growing up in The Bronx, NY everything we needed was within walking distance. This thing with the gas happened so fast that we didn't get a fair chance to prepare. I've been doing all sorts of things to conserve and save money but it seems that I can't even break even. I cut my own hair, trim the dog, rarely eat out, watch whats on tv instead of going to the movies. Little things at best and then we keep getting hit with higher prices in the food stores and everywhere else. I'm thinking about a woodburning stove to offset my heating oil going from $2.39 to $4.00 a gallon, just don't know how much wood will be available? I'm glad folks are not just complaining but actually doing what they can to make the situation better. I do think we will need the government to step in and do something because our efforts just won't be enough. Gasoline around here has been going up a couple cents every day, there's some talk of suspending the tax on it but at this point that won't be enough either.

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          • #6
            Re: Put up or shut up

            Originally posted by smelly View Post
            that tv program "Natioal geographics" did a special on a magtrain that runs between tokyo and its airport, explained from conception to installation , was pretty intersting,

            I saw that, too. Very cool. When I was in Japan last fall, I was able to experience their rail system first hand. Very efficiently run. Used heavily.
            Another thing that impressed me is their recycling efforts. Almost everything is presorted, and put in individual bags and placed in the same collection area and the guys picking it up put it in the appropriate place.
            I was also amazed at the amount of people riding bicycles. I guess a lot of it is self-defense. Having so many people in such a small area would make you a little more aware.
            We could learn a lot. I did.
            The biggest problem is everyone wants a cleaner environment, a better economy, better over-all health, etc, but not many want to pay the price. It's just like food; eating healthy costs more up front, but is less expensive in the long run.
            ‎"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain

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            • #7
              Re: Put up or shut up

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              I'm thinking about a woodburning stove to offset my heating oil going from $2.39 to $4.00 a gallon, just don't know how much wood will be available?
              I got lucky this year in that I could play Robison against Burke Heat pretty well. Burke offered me a cap of $3.899 this year, but Robison would do $3.299 and I got Burke to match it. Last year I had a cap of $2.69 with Burke, but the average/gallon cost I paid was less than $2.45. At least with heating oil there is a choice about the company you buy from each year. I wouldn't go with the smaller companies, because I trust that Burke will show up at 5AM on Christmas if I have no heat, but a smaller company might not. I haven't tested that, but I have tested 5AM and the day after Thanksgiving. With natural gas, you can't really shop around.

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              • #8
                Re: Put up or shut up

                Originally posted by cpw View Post
                I got lucky this year in that I could play Robison against Burke Heat pretty well. Burke offered me a cap of $3.899 this year, but Robison would do $3.299 and I got Burke to match it. Last year I had a cap of $2.69 with Burke, but the average/gallon cost I paid was less than $2.45. At least with heating oil there is a choice about the company you buy from each year. I wouldn't go with the smaller companies, because I trust that Burke will show up at 5AM on Christmas if I have no heat, but a smaller company might not. I haven't tested that, but I have tested 5AM and the day after Thanksgiving. With natural gas, you can't really shop around.
                Always smart to be an educated consumer and compare prices. Like many other folks the jump in price will just be too much for me to absorb when added to all the other increases. I just don't know where to cut back anymore? Really not looking forward to the cold, old bones need more than wearing more clothes to keep warm.

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                • #9
                  Re: Put up or shut up

                  We've been "frugal" for years. I choose to live very near work, so I could walk instead of drive. Over the past 30 years, my average driving is a bit less than 5,000 miles a year.

                  When it comes to automobiles, I'm frugal there too.... bought my first brand new car in 1965 and only recently (last Sept) bought my 6th vehicle for general transportation. I do own a 7th, for fun... a 1995 Miata. It has less than 34,000 miles on it, to date. The Miata is the only motorized entertainment we own... no motorcycles, boats, snowmobiles, or off road vehicles. I walk, hike, and used to cross-country ski and canoe, but never had much interest in adding "power" to get out into the back country.

                  Electrical consumption is minimal. Typical night we have two 60 watt bulbs and two florescents going. High efficiency furnace and no air conditioning. The future home has central air (there when we bought it), but we don't intend to use it unless we're entertaining on a hot day. The house is very well insulated and we're installing high efficiency windows as the budget allows. I am planning on adding a small A/C unit to a smaller family room.

                  My computer is probably the biggest power consumer, although "energy-star" efficient, I could do better I suppose. I recently purchased a lap-top that seems to be quite a bit more energy efficient. Both our televisions are small, low wattage units. My Ham Radio equipment is mostly running on low power, but that will get converted to solar power some time within the next year. We're also planning for a solar power system to supplement the house next year. Also, all of our battery-required stuff runs on rechargeables, with the one exception being the programable thermostat. It requires full 1.5 volt cells, unfortunately.

                  Garbage generation is one can per week. We recycle everything possible. We don't use paper towels, dishes, or cups and try to minimize throw-away or disposables as much as possible. Also, we pretty much have found magazine subscriptions a terrible waste. While we both enjoy reading, it got to be a major disposal situation and in many cases, I found myself keeping certain magazines that I just never found time to read. Going through that again too... with a couple of woodworking magazines. (But I suppose we all have our weak points.) We do have a fairly-sized library though, but books are keepers!

                  So as consumers, we're very much on the low end, as I believe in keeping what I have for as long as possible, doing whatever repairs I can... in other words, use it up, before we get rid of it. Even then, I canabalize what I can for future projects. As far as buying "Made in the USA"... that's one heckuva challenge, especially when most of the good ol' U.S. companies insist on scuttling they're employees in order to make higher profits from off-shore investments.

                  CWS
                  Last edited by CWSmith; 04-19-2008, 01:11 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Put up or shut up

                    Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                    We've been "frugal" for years. I choose to live very near work, so I could walk instead of drive. Over the past 30 years, my average driving is a bit less than 5,000 miles a year.

                    When it comes to automobiles, I'm frugal there too.... bought my first brand new car in 1965 and only recently (last Sept) bought my 6th vehicle for general transportation. I do own a 7th, for fun... a 1995 Miata. It has less than 34,000 miles on it, to date. The Miata is the only motorized entertainment we own... no motorcycles, boats, snowmobiles, or off road vehicles. I walk, hike, and used to cross-country ski and canoe, but never had much interest in adding "power" to get out into the back country.

                    Electrical consumption is minimal. Typical night we have two 60 watt bulbs and two florescents going. High efficiency furnace and no air conditioning. The future home has central air (there when we bought it), but we don't intend to use it unless we're entertaining on a hot day. The house is very well insulated and we're installing high efficiency windows as the budget allows. I am planning on adding a small A/C unit to a smaller family room.

                    My computer is probably the biggest power consumer, although "energy-star" efficient, I could do better I suppose. I recently purchased a lap-top that seems to be quite a bit more energy efficient. Both our televisions are small, low wattage units. My Ham Radio equipment is mostly running on low power, but that will get converted to solar power some time within the next year. We're also planning for a solar power system to supplement the house next year. Also, all of our battery-required stuff runs on rechargeables, with the one exception being the programable thermostat. It requires full 1.5 volt cells, unfortunately.

                    Garbage generation is one can per week. We recycle everything possible. We don't use paper towels, dishes, or cups and try to minimize throw-away or disposables as much as possible. Also, we pretty much have found magazine subscriptions a terrible waste. While we both enjoy reading, it got to be a major disposal situation and in many cases, I found myself keeping certain magazines that I just never found time to read. Going through that again too... with a couple of woodworking magazines. (But I suppose we all have our weak points.) We do have a fairly-sized library though, but books are keepers!

                    So as consumers, we're very much on the low end, as I believe in keeping what I have for as long as possible, doing whatever repairs I can... in other words, use it up, before we get rid of it. Even then, I canabalize what I can for future projects. As far as buying "Made in the USA"... that's one heckuva challenge, especially when most of the good ol' U.S. companies insist on scuttling they're employees in order to make higher profits from off-shore investments.

                    CWS
                    Gosh, you do have quite a conservative lifestyle, unfortunately there is no easy or quick fix for those who need to commute. The transiton to such a life will be very difficult for those forced by their financial situation. There are also many folks who are both young and old suffering from various medical conditions who need more controlled environments and are not just being spoiled to be comfortable. I still think part of the solution lies with our lawmakers. Give us a timeline and some help in transitioning to high mile per gallon vehicles, maybe some kind of rebates or tax breaks to switch to wind and or solar power. You are a rarity and it's going to take some doing for the rest of us to join you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Put up or shut up

                      Now that warmer weather is here, we can get back to local foods. I go to the farmer's market each week and get the meat, veggies, etc for our meals. It's a bit more for the locally grown smaller producer, but it saves in the long run as there's far less hydrocarbon transport cost. Also, the meats are generally better with less to no additives like antibiotics. When purchasing goods such as sandpaper, finishes, etc I prefer to use the local (within 5 miles) hardware store rather than drive the 30 miles to the big-box stores. While the material is still shipped in, at least I'm not burning a bunch of fuel to finish the last leg of the process! I still have to go to the big box to get some things, since our town stores don't stock some things. I have, however, cut down my driving immensely by shopping local first.

                      I live in a very small town, so the stores aren't interested in coming here (yay!). The downside is there are some things that just aren't available. In my business, in order to replace memory, hard drives, CPU, etc, I have to order and get delivery. Even in this, I try to do whatever I can to minimize deliveries. I'll keep a running list of required items and make purchases only when there's a good number of things (every couple months or so), or if there's an immediate requirement. A lot of software I get via download vs having product in a box. Save packaging, save delivery and save me having to get rid of packaging!

                      We recycle as much as possible. Some items I'll save to recycle myself. Things like metal blades and such I'll recycle into small scrapers for beading and other details. I even use the little metal pieces that hold up hanging folders for these. We use CF bulbs wherever possible. We turn off lights if not necessary. We're going to install a cistern type water-catchment system this year to water plants and lawn. This will save us probably $300 on our water bill over the summer.

                      Next is to start investigating changing my diesel truck over to a sustainable fuel. I personally want to use switch grass or some other NON-FOOD fuel source. For the time being, I may just use cooking oil from the local Tastee Freeze. I just don't want to use corn as a fuel. Call me silly, but using a food as a fuel makes no sense to me. If we tie our fuel into a food source, the world may well go hungry.

                      OK...enough of my rant!! Sorry about that.
                      I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Put up or shut up

                        Frankiearmz,

                        I suppose we are a bit of a raritry. I always joke that my Momma forewarned me that I would never be rich! But actually my wife and I just got into being conservative at a very early time. As they used to say, we're not much with "keeping up with the Jones", or for living "for things". I've insisted since the first day of marriage (back in 67) that we MUST live on my salary. I am a bit "Victorian" and Patty has been a "stay at home Mom", not working since our son was born in 1969. As a technical illustrator/writer, my income has been quite modest too (I'm only a high school graduate). The lack of a college degree has subjected us to a couple of layoff periods, sometimes rather long (3 ears at one point).

                        But that said, we've made out okay and have never had to request assistance. We live in a somewhat upscale neighborhood, although in a small house (1400 sq ft). Our son was always the first to get the newest things, like the computer, stereo, CD system, etc. In fact, we were "computerized" and on the internet in 1978. (Thanks to his interest in such things, I found myself freelance writing and handling data two years before IBM "invented" their first PC.) Between scholarships and savings, we were also able to send him to Cornell University, even though I was in that layoff period at the time. Most importantly he didn't have to start his life with any college loans to be paid off. Finally, when I lost my job after 30 years, I just "retired" at 59.

                        (Rant ON: Job got "off-shored"... Thank you Mr. Bush; and of course my big pension of $320 a month for 30 years of service, helps me pay for my retiree health insurance... to that I can thank Mr. Reagan, who allowed the company to reformulate their pension plan....Sorry, rant OFF.)

                        In spite of it all, one learns to be prepared. So the best part about living modestly is that when the world goes to sh** on you, there isn't much adjusting that you have to do... and there isn't really much you end up missing either.

                        CWS
                        Last edited by CWSmith; 04-19-2008, 02:40 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Put up or shut up

                          VASandy Next is to start investigating changing my diesel truck over to a sustainable fuel. I personally want to use switch grass or some other NON-FOOD fuel source. For the time being, I may just use cooking oil from the local Tastee Freeze. I just don't want to use corn as a fuel. Call me silly, but using a food as a fuel makes no sense to me. If we tie our fuel into a food source, the world may well go hungry.
                          and bio diesel is not from a food source?
                          CORN OIL, SOY OIL, SUNFLOWER OIL, and if it is from another oil plant then that plant is using ground that would have normally been farmed for food, the same with switch grass, if it is planted it will be on "FARM GROUND",

                          and we use corn for all kinds of industrial uses any how, is that wrong?

                          It is a commodity jsut like oil or wood or any thing else, is, but you can eat it if so desired,
                          untill the last year, corn (food) was sold so cheap that it was cheaper to burn it in a wood type stove rather than feed it to cattle, or eat it does that make sense either?

                          and for the most part people do not eat "yellow field corn". there are other type of corn that is usually use for human uses, and they are not not used in the production of ethanol unless there unfit for human or animal use.

                          MORE than likely if you use a "renewable" liquid fuel source, it will either be a "FOOD" product or grown in competition on farm ground, that was once used for FOOD PRODUCTION.
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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                          • #14
                            Re: Put up or shut up

                            Corn or whatever grain is RENEWABLE...duh. It would be a great fuel source, VAsandy. The world WILL NOT go hungry from using corn as a fuel.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Put up or shut up

                              When it comes to ethanol production, the best part of the corn plant is still used as animal feed, the Protein part, the starch is converted into the sugars and then into alcohol, which is either pressed out or by centrifugal force the liquid is removed and the left over distiller's grains are used for animal feeds, and normally the "part lost" the starch can easily be made up in the animals rations by low quality fodders and hays, (they are now bailing the corn fields for the stocks to use as feed (it is ground and the distillers grains are mixed in), I have understood in some of the larger plants even the corn oil removed in the process.

                              yes it may have some impact on meat production in the country, but even if the feed lot has to pay more or change rations to feed the animals out, it does not effect the price of beef in the store, (if you know any thing about the farm economy) as the packer dictates what price he will pay and what price the consumer will pay for the product when he is done with it, the price is not set by the farmer or rancher, it is set by the packer and the processor. and the speculators. the same is for grains. (yes some truck farming and farmer markets they my set there price but the larger farmer that sells commercial is told what he will receive not what it cost to produce it with a small profit.


                              What I am simply trying to point out you get the ethanol from corn and the co product is a high protein feed product, that is still food and usable for the feeding of cattle and other fed critters, so yes some of the volume is used up but the protein is not, and is still sold and used as feed, jsut as the whole corn kernel was used before. but other lower cost product is added to it.

                              Yes demand for corn is up do to ethanol, production,
                              but the drop of the dollars value probably has as much or more to do with the rise of the price than the production of ethanol.
                              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                              attributed to Samuel Johnson
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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