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A Little History

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  • #16
    Re: A Little History

    nice post and thanks for this post
    dmt sharp

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: A Little History

      Originally posted by AFM View Post
      We were lied to by Bush and his cronies and we wanted to believe them so we didn`t give a stuff about the past as we were mesmerized by the prospect of oil and this is the only reason we are in that part of the world if there was no oil do you honestly think we would be there not likely.

      Tony
      Interesting point of view. Based on what facts? It would be great to think we went to Irac for the oil, but as of yet we don't seem to have actually recieved any of it. ( as gas prices climb to over 4 dollars a gallon) However you are indeed correct in your assumption that we would have little influence or need to be in the middle east if not for oil in general. That said you must remember that there would be no oil industry in the middle east at all if not for the billions of dollars invested by Europe, the United States and the Soviet Union over the past 80 years or so. We can argue the morality of these decisions but the die is already cast and the damage done. Much of the world relies on oil imports from the middle east and at this point in time can not afford to let these valuable reserves fall into the hands of extremist regimes. Was Irac the correct enty point? Only time will tell, but wether Irac, Iran, or Syria it was only a matter of time before action had to be taken. Saddam Hussein could have prevented the action in Irac by simply complying with the United Nations, but he refused to do so time after time. He openly defied the UN and paid the price.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: A Little History

        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
        But when Katrina was over I don't remember any other country coming here to assist. But that's hijacking the thread.
        Some foreign attempts to send U.S. aid stymied
        http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...na-world_x.htm
        Most Katrina Aid From Overseas Went Unclaimed
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042801113.html
        U.S. Rejected Millions in Foreign Aid for Katrina
        http://news.newamericamedia.org/news...fee9b7d49da616

        jsut do a quck google search,
        http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ign+assistance
        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
        attributed to Samuel Johnson
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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        • #19
          Re: A Little History

          From the USA Today article

          The worst thing we could do is to take things, have them ... sit on the ground and not be utilized, to have something rot or not get to people quickly," he said at a briefing at the State Department.

          Uncoordinated relief flights have been a problem in previous disasters, such as last year's Asian tsunami. Sri Lanka, a tropical country, reported receiving shipments of winter clothes.

          The Bush administration has rejected only one offer, of 20 million barrels of oil from Iran. Thomas said the offer was made through the media and rebuffed because it was conditioned on the United States lifting economic sanctions

          The administration accepted an offer from Venezuela, whose President Hugo Chavez has irritated the Bush administration by forging close ties with Cuba. Venezuela's national oil company is shipping an additional 1 million barrels of oil to the United States to alleviate shortages caused by Katrina.

          What am I missing?
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: A Little History

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            Interesting point of view. Based on what facts? It would be great to think we went to Irac for the oil, but as of yet we don't seem to have actually recieved any of it. ( as gas prices climb to over 4 dollars a gallon) However you are indeed correct in your assumption that we would have little influence or need to be in the middle east if not for oil in general. That said you must remember that there would be no oil industry in the middle east at all if not for the billions of dollars invested by Europe, the United States and the Soviet Union over the past 80 years or so. We can argue the morality of these decisions but the die is already cast and the damage done. Much of the world relies on oil imports from the middle east and at this point in time can not afford to let these valuable reserves fall into the hands of extremist regimes. Was Irac the correct enty point? Only time will tell, but wether Irac, Iran, or Syria it was only a matter of time before action had to be taken. Saddam Hussein could have prevented the action in Irac by simply complying with the United Nations, but he refused to do so time after time. He openly defied the UN and paid the price.
            Thank you for having the b-lls to say that.
            Left unchecked I beleive you're right, we'd have Osama himself dictating the price of oil to OPEC...Or Saddam would own Kuwait and he'd be doing so right now.

            The level of power the fertile crescent region imbues on the world as a whole is staggering, terrifying.
            Third world, no seperation of church and state, no indoor plumbing...empowered to cripple contemporary society influenced by standards outdated in medieval times and profit from it.

            On a side note, the idea that the Bush admin used false intel to fuel the Iraq war comes up often.
            I often wonder if that false intel weren't planted, or fed to us through Islamic extremist actions.

            Who's knows who or what's wrong or right with so much confusion.
            I proudly salute my troops regardless.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: A Little History

              Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
              Thank you for having the b-lls to say that.
              Left unchecked I beleive you're right, we'd have Osama himself dictating the price of oil to OPEC...Or Saddam would own Kuwait and he'd be doing so right now.

              The level of power the fertile crescent region imbues on the world as a whole is staggering, terrifying.
              Third world, no seperation of church and state, no indoor plumbing...empowered to cripple contemporary society influenced by standards outdated in medieval times and profit from it.

              On a side note, the idea that the Bush admin used false intel to fuel the Iraq war comes up often.
              I often wonder if that false intel weren't planted, or fed to us through Islamic extremist actions.

              Who's knows who or what's wrong or right with so much confusion.
              I proudly salute my troops regardless.
              Thanks Ducky. You know, I really wish we could just go ostrich and bury our heads in the sand like many other countries do. But this time the stakes are just too high. We're dealing with a group that want's to push civilization back 500 years. Anyone who's done any deep and informed research on this knows better than to ignore what's going on.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: A Little History

                if we had gone after Ben-Ladan and kept after him, instead of diverting the fact that we had no clue where he was/is then there may be some strength in the "war on terrorism". the intelligence that was available to set up the war has pretty much been refuted. even W has said as much, in veiled ways. if that was the best intelligence we are able to muster than we are doomed as a country. i fail to think that way but contrived intel is no way to start a war.

                so, taday we are in a loosing war with no way out and more of the world hates us now than ever before. i support our troops. our government couldn't even supply proper armorment for the troops. i grieve for every man and woman hurt or killed over there. i especially grieve for the 10 that died from the U.S. Virgin Islands. we can't even vote for the President but we send our soldiers to fight and die.

                W had the country and the world behind him after 911 but pissed it away with a stupid war based on untruth and equally stupid stunts like "mission accomplished" and "political capital"

                i truely believe that fighting for democracy (much less peace)in the middle east is like fornicating for virginity.

                flame me if you wish but i am a proud American and will defend my soil with all i have. but the world is changing and i don't see a pretty picture.

                steve
                In the never ending struggle to keep the water flowing.... The Poo Poo Cowboy rides again!!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: A Little History

                  Found this simple but interesting:
                  "the US's first issue in being involved with WWII was that it was well into the Great Depression by then. the second issue was that it was against the will of the American people; they wanted to stay far away from anything that looked vaguely like war, lest they get involved in Europe's controversy."
                  Source:
                  WikiAnswers - What were the issues between intervention and isolation in World War 2
                  Diabolical tyrant, using racial superiority as a rationale for mass murder, using force to overtake neighboring countries and murder their citizens.

                  We wanted NO part.

                  More of the same, years into the future:
                  FOXNews.com - Brainroom: Saddam Hussein's Atrocities - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News
                  Diabolical tyrant, mass murder, using force to overtake neighboring country, rape and murder their citizens...until stopped by the U.S.

                  Again, we wanted NO part.

                  We debate whether it was right to overthrow him because the intel was wrong about WMD.

                  Is this some bizarre widespread form of Stockholm syndrome?

                  War IS bad, oh yes it is...but what is indifference in the face of mass murder? ....Good?
                  I think there's shame in turning a blind eye in the late 80's when the bulk of this was happening.

                  History repeating?

                  I wonder how the Kurds feel, or any citizen of Kuwait?

                  If we DID overthrow Saddam for the cheap oil, I want my $1 gas...whats the holdup?!?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: A Little History

                    Nice post Ducky. Stxrus, I may dissagree with you but I will defend your right to your opinion to the end. As for the botched intel, yes maybe, but the U.S. was not the only country to come to the same conclusions there. As for loosing the war, I believe that at last estimate things are going quite well there. problem is the media deals in bad news not good because there's lot's more money to be made reporting terrible events rather than good ones. Witness the frenzy the news media get's into every time we get a snow storm. You would think it was the end of the world. Why? Because people buy bread and milk and stock up on food and crap when they think a major storm will hit. It's mass media marketing for the sponsers and the tactic works well. Don't be fooled into thinking the media is totally liberal though. They truely don't give a damn one way or the other. They're just looking to stir the pot.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: A Little History

                      Originally posted by AFM View Post
                      No I am not powerful or almighty, I am just expressing my opinion which is what I thought this forum was all about, without having a smart *** like you useing words like omnipotent that are not used in general convertion by your average person and just shows the fool you are for useing them.

                      Tony

                      Whoa!!! You'v got alll joosed up. Plummers are somee of thee Smartist peeple I no. Thay use big werds evryday! Try somee en your convertion.

                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: A Little History

                        Originally posted by AFM View Post
                        No I am not powerful or almighty, I am just expressing my opinion which is what I thought this forum was all about, without having a smart *** like you useing words like omnipotent that are not used in general convertion by your average person and just shows the fool you are for useing them.

                        Tony

                        Whoa!!! You'v got alll joosed up. Plummers are somee of thee Smartist peeple I no. Thay use big werds evryday! Try somee en your convertion.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: A Little History

                          Originally posted by stxrus View Post
                          if we had gone after Ben-Ladan and kept after him, instead of diverting the fact that we had no clue where he was/is then there may be some strength in the "war on terrorism". the intelligence that was available to set up the war has pretty much been refuted. even W has said as much, in veiled ways. if that was the best intelligence we are able to muster than we are doomed as a country. i fail to think that way but contrived intel is no way to start a war.

                          so, taday we are in a loosing war with no way out and more of the world hates us now than ever before. i support our troops. our government couldn't even supply proper armorment for the troops. i grieve for every man and woman hurt or killed over there. i especially grieve for the 10 that died from the U.S. Virgin Islands. we can't even vote for the President but we send our soldiers to fight and die.

                          W had the country and the world behind him after 911 but pissed it away with a stupid war based on untruth and equally stupid stunts like "mission accomplished" and "political capital"

                          i truely believe that fighting for democracy (much less peace)in the middle east is like fornicating for virginity.

                          flame me if you wish but i am a proud American and will defend my soil with all i have. but the world is changing and i don't see a pretty picture.

                          steve
                          If we had gone after Ben Laden and not gone to Iraq we would have had him by the balls now and his terrorist organization would have been destoryed.

                          Tony

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: A Little History

                            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                            Whoa!!! You'v got alll joosed up. Plummers are somee of thee Smartist peeple I no. Thay use big werds evryday! Try somee en your convertion.

                            J.C.
                            Please go away fool

                            Tony

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: A Little History

                              I love it when things get going and people get snorting.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: A Little History

                                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                                Exactly. There have been tsunamis, earthquakes, typhoons etc. around the world that we send aid too. But when Katrina was over I don't remember any other country coming here to assist. But that's hijacking the thread.

                                My issue is that AFM says we learn nothing from the past. So my question to him/her is this: Why would U.S. or Australia leave Iraq/the Middle East?

                                J.C.
                                The United States refused help from Canada, Venezuela, and Cuba, to name just a few.

                                http://www2.nysun.com/national/us-re...for-hurricane/

                                http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/31/235829/261

                                http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9311876/

                                http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/30/kat...ema/index.html



                                But then again, don't let me hijack the thread...........
                                Last edited by tinmack; 06-14-2008, 10:06 PM.
                                I'm on "The List" and I love it!!

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