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  • #16
    Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

    Say what you want but its basic business, if you get $1000 for a run and it costs you $1200 plus food and maintenance to complete the run you just lost money, and you will continue to lose money. Raise your prices, if you cant then sell your truck and get out of the business. I dont put my boots on in the morning to lose money nor should any owner/driver.

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    • #17
      Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

      Originally posted by oldslowchevy View Post
      you must have no idea how this industry works,

      we do not nor can we demand more pay, it don't work like that. you get a load you are told where the load is and where it is going to what the milage is and what the shipper with pay and if you don't want that load you can (and will) sit at the truck stop for the next few days until another run comes along, while some else take that run.
      OSC,

      I can understand if you lose money on a run overall still taking it (e.g., if you would make some $$$ after fuel to chip a little bit at the truck payment). But if the fuel costs more than the whole run, and you know that ahead of time it would seem that idling at a truck stop would put you less far behind than taking the run. Your point about it going up so fast that within a week for the run your pricing gets messed up is taken though.

      I don't think there is anything else that can happen except for shipping prices to go up, which will effect everything and reduce everyone's disposable income. Like Service Guy pointed out, even if the truckers want to stay busy and keep doing runs for negative income, they won't be able to do it for very long at all. Some of them will just give up and there will be fewer other guys who would take a load for less; self-correcting the problem [of course that will hit us all in the pocketbooks].

      Free-market economics will make any system balance out in the long run. Unfortunately, the long run can be a very very long time away.

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      • #18
        Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

        Unfortunately free market economics is no longer functioning in this country. That's why we're in the mess we're in right now. There is more oil out there now than they ever thought possible. Our consumption in the U.S. of oil and oil based products is dropping daily. So supply is steady or increasing and demand in one of the biggest oil-using nations is falling. Yet the price of oil continues to rise? Market manipulation, plain and simple. One of the "reasons" big oil gives for increased demand is the rise in use in China. Yet China was paying $2.54 per gallon U.S. in the past two weeks. What's going on? Market manipulation. Like I said, free market economics has been snowplowed to the side of the road. "Definition: A free market economy is an economy in which the allocation for resources is determined only by their supply and the demand for them. This is mainly a theoretical concept as every country, even capitalist ones, places some restrictions on the ownership and exchange of commodities." From: economics.about.com/cs/economicsglossary/g/free_market_e.htm - 22k
        Jim Don

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        • #19
          Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

          Originally posted by JimDon View Post
          Unfortunately free market economics is no longer functioning in this country. That's why we're in the mess we're in right now. There is more oil out there now than they ever thought possible. Our consumption in the U.S. of oil and oil based products is dropping daily. So supply is steady or increasing and demand in one of the biggest oil-using nations is falling. Yet the price of oil continues to rise? Market manipulation, plain and simple. One of the "reasons" big oil gives for increased demand is the rise in use in China. Yet China was paying $2.54 per gallon U.S. in the past two weeks. What's going on? Market manipulation. Like I said, free market economics has been snowplowed to the side of the road. "Definition: A free market economy is an economy in which the allocation for resources is determined only by their supply and the demand for them. This is mainly a theoretical concept as every country, even capitalist ones, places some restrictions on the ownership and exchange of commodities." From: economics.about.com/cs/economicsglossary/g/free_market_e.htm - 22k
          Jim Don
          Great observation and gets to the root of our problem. Big Oil has discovered that the American public has no choice but to keep paying higher prices. These prices are not driven by actual demand but rather corporate greed and investor speculation. In terms of "balancing out" in this unique situation I don't see that concept being applicable. I do anticipate a breaking point, a price for gasoline, diesel, heating fuel , and related items such as food reaching a place where enough consumers simply cannot afford to buy. There is not enough media coverage but I think it's safe to say that for those who were barely getting by a year or two ago, that critical time has arrived. People keep cutting back and when they just run out credit and money what happens? What dangers await our economy and society in general? I think the only answer right now is emergency legislation, or some compromise with Big Oil. Our government needs to do something drastic in order to prevent a massive tragedy due to these out of control price increases. What is your breaking point, $6, $7, $8 dollars for fuel? Do you really think that your customers will be able to afford your price increases as well? We are all in trouble and need extrodinary measures to be taken.

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          • #20
            Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

            The cost of oil, which is traded in dollars, is based on the value of the dollar relative to other currencies. Because the value of the dollar is low, relative to these other currencies, we have to pay more for the oil we in the US use.

            I don't understand one thing I just wrote. I parroted it from a newscast. Can someone explain how this works? If the dollar is 10% lower than the Chinese currency and gas is $2.45 there, why isn't the price for gasoline reflective of a 10% increase over the cost of gas in China - $2.45 + $.245 = $2.695? Is the value of the dollar, traded against other currencies, 35%, 40% or 50% less?

            I don't hold much stock in conspiracy theories, three men in a room making decisions about world affairs and all that stuff. However in the 70s I was a member of a pretty radical survivalist group, two 50 cal. machine guns in a cave, buying ammo for your personal weapons in small lots so as not to raise any suspitions, food storage rotated, the whole nine yards. Everyone had a specific job related to survival of the group. You pledged to kill anyone who was not a member if they approached our position when the end time came. Maybe it is time to look-up my old pals.

            Tom
            Last edited by Tom W; 06-08-2008, 06:18 AM.

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            • #21
              Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

              Originally posted by Tom W View Post
              The cost of oil, which is traded in dollars, is based on the value of the dollar relative to other currencies. Because the value of the dollar is low, relative to these other currencies, we have to pay more for the oil we in the US use.

              I don't understand one thing I just wrote. I parroted it from a newscast. Can someone explain how this works? If the dollar is 10% lower than the Chinese currency and gas is $2.45 there, why isn't the price for gasoline reflective of a 10% increase over the cost of gas in China - $2.45 + $.245 = $2.695? Is the value of the dollar, traded against other currencies, 35%, 40% or 50% less?

              I don't hold much stock in conspiracy theories, three men in a room making decisions about world affairs and all that stuff. However in the 70s I was a member of a pretty radical survivalist group, two 50 cal. machine guns in a cave, buying ammo for your personal weapons in small lots so as not to raise any suspitions, food storage rotated, the whole nine yards. Everyone had a specific job related to survival of the group. You pledged to kill anyone who was not a member if they approached our position when the end time came. Maybe it is time to look-up my old pals.

              Tom
              Tom, all kidding aside I would say it's past time to look up those old friends and get moving! The damage done by our government and big oil has not really been seen yet and will become move evident as time passes. I do stock up on food and other essentials that could help me and my family get by in the event of a natural or manmade disaster. Those who think I am an extremist or otherwise foolish are the same folks who run around in the dark when power fails and they don't have a single working flashlight. I am very concerned for our future and I wish more people took this seriously, not to get sick worrying but to make sensible plans and alterantives.

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              • #22
                Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                Originally posted by Tom W View Post
                The cost of oil, which is traded in dollars, is based on the value of the dollar relative to other currencies. Because the value of the dollar is low, relative to these other currencies, we have to pay more for the oil we in the US use.
                The other currency on the world market that probably the matters most from a financial perspective is the Euro. If oil is $100 a barrel and the Euro is $1.50, then the barrel of oil costs 66.67 Euros. If the dollar weakens to $1.60 then the barrel costs 62.50 Euros, assuming the dollar price is the same. But if the dollar is just less valuable than not the oil, then the Euro price should stay the same. When the price stays constant in Euros, the barrel would cost $106.67.

                I think this probably accounts for some of the increase, but not all of it. I think the more plausible explanation is that hedge funds/others are dumping money into oil and other commodities and they are rallying like a bunch of .com stocks (or houses). Hopefully commodities will unwind like they did with tech stocks/houses.

                Originally posted by Tom W View Post
                I don't understand one thing I just wrote. I parroted it from a newscast. Can someone explain how this works? If the dollar is 10% lower than the Chinese currency and gas is $2.45 there, why isn't the price for gasoline reflective of a 10% increase over the cost of gas in China - $2.45 + $.245 = $2.695? Is the value of the dollar, traded against other currencies, 35%, 40% or 50% less?
                The Chi-coms and other countries actually subsidize gasoline. I heard on the news they stopped or decreased subsidies in Indonesia last week and caused riots.

                The government isn't blameless in all of this. They allow other countries to play by a different set of rules than we do, yet don't do anything about it. They also make more in taxes off a gallon of gasoline as the oil companies do in profit.

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                • #23
                  Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                  CPW, thanks for the explaination, the economics of oil seems pretty complex to me. Is there a book/booklet that you know of, like Oil Economics 101 or Oil Economics For Dummies that might offer an elaboration of some of the basics behind oil trading?

                  Thanks,
                  Tom

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                  • #24
                    Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                    Originally posted by Tom W View Post
                    CPW, thanks for the explaination, the economics of oil seems pretty complex to me. Is there a book/booklet that you know of, like Oil Economics 101 or Oil Economics For Dummies that might offer an elaboration of some of the basics behind oil trading?

                    Thanks,
                    Tom
                    Not that I know of. I think the DOE has some stuff, but I got most of this from reading the news etc. Oil is a much more complicated market than stocks etc. because there is less transparency and not all oil is the same. I personally don't quite understand all of the stuff related to contracts expiring etc. The one that is usually quoted is the current month (which changes one day a month) West Texas Intermediate crude with delivery at Cushing, OK. The Brent Sea North is also widely quoted. Other types of oil will trade at a premium or discount to these contracts based on quality (e.g., most OPEC oil is at a discount) and also location.

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                    • #25
                      Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                      Truck Gas Costs Passed Onto Consumers

                      Reporting
                      Kelly McPherson
                      MARYLAND (WJZ) ―
                      While drivers are concerned with $4 a gallon for gasoline, everyone may want to pay attention to the diesel prices, too. Some truckers are paying $5 for diesel, and that price is affecting everyone else.
                      Kelly McPherson reports how the jump in diesel will cost us all more.
                      The people who transport just about everything, from food to furniture, are filling up on diesel. It's a fuel that used to be cheaper than gas, but now it's putting a strain on trucking companies who have no other choice than to pass along the cost to us.
                      Taking home salmon is going to cost more. Fresh seafood gets to the store by truck. The cost of delivery is going up as diesel fuels flirt with $5 a gallon.
                      "All drivers try to get the best deal they can for the company. You know we want to keep our jobs. But just watching them go up and not come back down has been a scary sight," Vic Maynard, a truck driver, said.
                      "We get emails everyday from five different fuel suppliers in the area so we can determine who we're going to buy our fuel from. We never used to do that. We used to be pretty loyal to whom we bought our fuel from everyday. Now we go on whomever is the cheapest," said JJ Conway, operations manager of SeaCap, Inc.

                      Between the engine and keeping the trailer refrigerated, some trucks use 1,800 gallons of diesel every eight days. At $5 a gallon, that's $9,000, almost double what the companies paid last year.

                      The Maryland Motor Truck Association says some trucking companies are already going out of business.
                      "You can't keep up with a daily rate change. Furthermore, to try and bill for that has everybody's receivables topsy turvy," Ann Ferro said.
                      SeaCap can keep more than 30 trucks delivering seven days a week if the cost of filling up is passed along.
                      "We're just a small guy out of all of these other trucking companies in this country. And I don't know what else to do, but you just have to keep going up on your price," Conway said.

                      That guarantees higher prices for seafood, and everything else transported by truck, which is most of your groceries.
                      9/11/01, never forget.

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                      • #26
                        Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                        Originally posted by Tom W View Post
                        Is there a book/booklet that you know of, like Oil Economics 101 or Oil Economics For Dummies that might offer an elaboration of some of the basics behind oil trading?

                        Thanks,
                        Tom
                        It's simple. OPEC controls the production of enough oil in the world to effectively control the price. They decide what price to sell it for, if you dont like the price you dont have to buy it, but people buy it anyway. They will raise the price to the point where they can make the most money without destroying the world's economy because if they hurt the economy too much then nobody will be able to buy their oil.
                        This is just like a drug dealer, if they price the drugs too high then they will not sell much.
                        The problem with the oil market is that you have a monopoly(OPEC) that controls enough of the oil to dictate any price they want to charge. They do not have enough competition to effect their behavior.
                        www.TheWoodCellar.com

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                        • #27
                          Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                          i have often wondered if we as a nation quit buying oil from opec and drilled here and then used our own oil, what would the price be, would it be worth it?

                          also as much as i hate to say this because i don't like the goverment in my home, but what if the goverment mandated somthing that private citizens could only have 2 cars max per house hold?, now dont take that to the letter folks, i just know there are many people here in my town that has 5,6,7,10 or more cars and trucks that is alittle insane in my opinion.
                          Last edited by oldslowchevy; 06-11-2008, 03:43 PM.
                          9/11/01, never forget.

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                          • #28
                            Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                            Originally posted by oldslowchevy View Post
                            i have often wondered if we as a nation quit buying oil from opec and drilled here and then used our own oil, what would the price be, would it be worth it?
                            A lot less from what we are paying now!!!!! Has anyone ever seen that special on the Discovery Channel about the Mansions these oil sheiks have in Dubai?

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                            • #29
                              Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                              I dont care how many cars someone has, you can only drive 1 at a time.
                              www.TheWoodCellar.com

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                              • #30
                                Re: truckers move the U.S.A.

                                Originally posted by Rafael View Post
                                I dont care how many cars someone has, you can only drive 1 at a time.
                                this is true but if you have say a family of 4 (man woman 2 teenagers) then no one car pools and then no gas is being saved
                                9/11/01, never forget.

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