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  • #31
    Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

    start collecting fire wood folks
    9/11/01, never forget.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
      I remember those days and they were horrible, don't want to ever see them repeated. Yet today we are living another nightmare, go right ahead and buy gas without waiting on line just cough up five dollars a gallon! Feel free to try and get a raise, won't help you when we are seeing double digit inflation. I hate to think what this coming winter will bring because I can't afford five or six dollar heating oil. McCain can compare obama to carter all he wants, it is the failure of our most recent and current President that is freshest in our minds and wallets. Like I said they both offer little hope, I just think McCain offers the least potential for a good change but I would hate to be wrong! Can we really think that either candidate will make all these problems go away?
      I hate to disagree with you but the Bush economy makes the Carter years look like life in a third world country. During the Carter years you could not go to work if you were silly enough to miss your gas day or use it all driving to a distant job site. If you wanted a raise you had to quit your job and find a new one which paid better. If you were trying to buy a home you felt like you won the lottery if you found a loan at 13%. Carter turned the working class into the working poor. I was at first worried Bill Clinton would do the same thing but to my surprise Clinton was a moderate. Obama on the other hand is so far to the left he makes Hillary look like Rush Limbaugh.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

        Originally posted by oldslowchevy View Post
        start collecting fire wood folks
        I called my town dump and said I was thinking about getting a wood burning stove and the guy laughed, "You and everyone else"! Good idea but wood is gonna get real scarce, tree service guys used to glady dump logs just to get rid of them but those days are over. There just ain't no way out or around this problem. Pellet stove owners are in for a real surprise, price and availabiltiy wise. Only folks who will do well are those with a forest in their back yard.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          I hate to disagree with you but the Bush economy makes the Carter years look like life in a third world country. During the Carter years you could not go to work if you were silly enough to miss your gas day or use it all driving to a distant job site. If you wanted a raise you had to quit your job and find a new one which paid better. If you were trying to buy a home you felt like you won the lottery if you found a loan at 13%. Carter turned the working class into the working poor. I was at first worried Bill Clinton would do the same thing but to my surprise Clinton was a moderate. Obama on the other hand is so far to the left he makes Hillary look like Rush Limbaugh.

          Mark
          You could be right! I knew guys who got mortgages back then at 17%. Still we haven't begun to feel the damage of five dollar gas and heating oil. There are folks right now who are out of work and can't afford the gas to go and look for a job, odd or even day. The situation is bad regardless of who gets in, we are in serious trouble.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            I remember listening to a speech by farrakhan back in the 70's when he referred to whites as "that sick pale thing", without a doubt a racist. I think they like him or tolerate him because he is controversial, can motivate people and has some good in his message of hate. I know that may sound ridiculous but in between insulting whites and accusing jews he encourages blacks to better themselves and their situation. I don't like him and feel he could get the good message out without the poison of racism. Rev. wright stirs up his congregation and draws heat when he insults our country, but it is a country he served in uniform unlike many of his detractors. .
            "Good in his message of hate"

            So hatred based on ones skin color is ok as long as it's hatred towards the white man?

            I see you are sensitive towards minorities and that is cool but don't be so blind to think that its justified hatred, because it's not. Hatred is hatred no matter how you spin it.

            " Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. " (MLK I have a dream)


            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              I called my town dump and said I was thinking about getting a wood burning stove and the guy laughed, "You and everyone else"! Good idea but wood is gonna get real scarce, tree service guys used to glady dump logs just to get rid of them but those days are over. There just ain't no way out or around this problem. Pellet stove owners are in for a real surprise, price and availabiltiy wise. Only folks who will do well are those with a forest in their back yard.
              Unless you live in a town that doesn't let you cut down your own darn trees without a permit!

              Comment


              • #37
                I'm not even worried about Obama becoming president

                And I'll tell you why:



                It's not going to happen.......because you can drumroll the poor people syndrome to death.....and you will not be speaking for the majority.....just the minority.


                People will line the corridors all the way to the streets to keep anyone with the name Hussein from running the United States.


                It's a shoe in for McCain......he'll be blamed for all the problems and serve one term....out the door you go.


                No matter how badly people think Bush is running the roost........no one wants a party that welcomes terrorism and attacks on US soil.

                Proof of that is asking troops to come back before completing a mission. Save your armchair remarks for the face of a soldier.....and give them your line of **** why YOU think they belong somewhere else.
                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                  Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                  "Good in his message of hate"

                  So hatred based on ones skin color is ok as long as it's hatred towards the white man?

                  I see you are sensitive towards minorities and that is cool but don't be so blind to think that its justified hatred, because it's not. Hatred is hatred no matter how you spin it.

                  " Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. " (MLK I have a dream)

                  I am sensitive to the plight of minorities. I said there was "some good in his message of hate", and that's why I felt the black community tolerates him. I did not say I agree with him in the least! I agree that hate is hate wheter it's white on black or the other way around. Racists both black and white are having a field day hating eachother rather than pulling together and working to fix our country. That's why I got upset last night with the twisted representation of obama. He has his morons and McCain has his, now what about the mess we are in? Who will get us out of iraq, secure our borders and fix our economy and fuel problems? Let's stop dressing obama to look like bin laden and assuming that he is a puppet for farrakhan. What are the merits of both these candidates? Personally I don't think either offers anything.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                    One of the big things you mention are our gas price problems. From a policy perspective I can only see Obama making them worse.

                    He buys all the way into global warming, and the Democrat solution basically seems to be to tax energy usage. Not going to make things cheaper.

                    Oil companies are making money now, so they want to explore so they can make more of that money. The Democrat solution is to enact a windfall profit tax. Not going to encourage investment.

                    We have a dependence on foreign oil. The Democrat's solution is to prevent us from drilling in our own country and hope that some technology will save us and create "greeen jobs". That might eventually work, but it isn't going to give us any price relief any time soon. This only helps OPEC and others. The Chinese are drilling off the coast of Florida (they have an agreement with Cuba), but the US is not.

                    We need to explore our continental shelf, ANWR, and other coastal areas. We also need to build the appropriate energy structure right here. We don't have new refineries. We burn our coal and natural gas for electricity, when we can use nuclear power instead; and save the coal for converting to gasoline and the natural gas for heating our homes.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      I am sensitive to the plight of minorities. I said there was "some good in his message of hate", and that's why I felt the black community tolerates him. I did not say I agree with him in the least! I agree that hate is hate wheter it's white on black or the other way around. Racists both black and white are having a field day hating eachother rather than pulling together and working to fix our country. That's why I got upset last night with the twisted representation of obama. He has his morons and McCain has his, now what about the mess we are in? Who will get us out of iraq, secure our borders and fix our economy and fuel problems? Let's stop dressing obama to look like bin laden and assuming that he is a puppet for farrakhan. What are the merits of both these candidates? Personally I don't think either offers anything.
                      Twisted representation of Obama? Thats funny. If the shoe fits...wear it.

                      Tell me what good has come out in his message of hate?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                        "Oil companies are making money now, so they want to explore so they can make more of that money."

                        Oil companies have been making profits since 1972 when the first oil crunch hit. Look up their stock histories to see it.

                        Profit is the amount of money after you've paid off all your expenses including costs for R&D and oil exploration. The larger profits simply mean there is more cash going back to investors as dividends. Doesn't mean they plow that profit back into exploration. Won't happen. Would not keep their investors happy. And who are investors? Most are not you and me. Investors are usually insiders (read oil company executives) who buy massive amounts of stock for themselves and their relatives in order to hold and maintain control of the company. Why do you think companies like Exxon-Mobil have embarked on a major plan to re-purchase shares of their stock during the last eight years?????? Take a trip down memory lane and read about the U.S. government's break-up of the Standard Oil Trust in 1911. BTW, the merger of Exxon and Mobil a number of years ago was just a reinvention of the Standard Oil Trust that was originally broken up. Exxon and Mobil were both part of Rockefeller's monopoly.

                        Now for some light reading:


                        “As observed over the last few years and as projected well into the future, the most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry. Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins, and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline.”
                        --Internal Texaco document, March 7, 1996
                        “A senior energy analyst at the recent API (American Petroleum Institute) convention warned that if the U.S. petroleum industry doesn’t reduce its refining capacity, it will never see any substantial increase in refining margins…However, refining utilization has been rising, sustaining high levels of operations, thereby keeping prices low.”
                        --Internal Chevron document, November 30, 1995
                        Excerpts from The Oil Industry, Gas Supply and Refinery Capacity: More Than Meets the Eye (PDF), a 2001 investigative report by Senator Wyden of Oregon outlining how, over a period of ten years, Big Oil companies orchestrated the current crisis in oil prices.

                        The oil industry and its allies would have the public believe that insufficient refining capacity, restrictive environmental standards, growing gasoline demand and OPEC production cutbacks are the primary reasons for the current oil and gas supply problem.

                        However, the record shows – supported by documents I have obtained – that . . . major oil companies pursued efforts to curtail refinery capacity as a strategy for improving profit margins; that competing oil companies worked together to subvert supply; that refinery closures inhibited supply; and that oil companies are reaping record profits, yet may benefit from a proposed national energy policy that would offer financial incentives to expand refinery capacity. [!!!]

                        * * *

                        [T]he nation’s major oil suppliers have set out in a strategic effort to orchestrate a financial triple play, a coordinated effort that would reduce supply, raise prices at the pump and relax environmental regulations. Unfortunately, in each case, it is the consumer who takes the hit.

                        While the documents target activity on the West Coast and refinery closings in 11 states, they point to practices with significant national ramifications. The companies involved are national companies that operate in multiple states. In addition, gas and oil is a fungible commodity and the amount of capacity that has been taken offline is significant enough to affect national markets.
                        In his report, Senator Wyden made the following findings (abbreviated):

                        FINDING 1: Oil Companies Articulated their “Need” to Reduce Oil and Gas Supply to Increase Prices and Grow Profit Margins

                        Not only did the oil companies view excess refining capacity as a financial liability, they openly suggested that eliminating the excess capacity and tightening supply would help improve their bottom line.

                        [D]ocuments show that oil companies had the intent and motive to hamstring supply and reduce refining capacity. Subsequent events show that they acted [based on that intent].
                        FINDING 2: Oil Company Competitors Planned Opportunities to Subvert Oil and Gas Supply . . .

                        “ARCO represents an important part of Tosco=s business. We want to do everything we can to nurture this important business relationship and make sure it keeps up the tradition of being mutually beneficial.”
                        --Thank you note to ARCO Exec. VP James A. Middleton from Tosco CEO Thomas O’Malley, April 25, 1994
                        “… explore whether or not there was any mutual benefit, any mutual interest, any profit for both ARCO and Tosco to find a way to have ARCO purchase or Tosco sell CARB [cleaner burning California Air Resources Board] gasoline to ARCO, recognizing that the agreement that was in place at that time did not provide for the supply of CARB gasoline.”
                        --Summary of Deposition of William C. Rusnack, President of ARCO Products Co., taken May 15, 1997
                        “And he, as I recall, confirmed their interest …and if we can reach a commercial agreement with them, that he felt, you know, this could change some of their investment decisions or change investment decisions of others on supplying CARB gasoline.”
                        --Summary of Deposition of Cecil Blackwell, Senior Chevron Official, taken February 19, 1997

                        * * *

                        [M]ajor oil and gas companies supplying CARB gas to the California market entered into 44 supply-sharing agreements . . . to control the quantity of CARB gas on the market, reduce efforts to expand CARB refining capacity, limit imports of CARB gas and discourage excess CARB gas from being sold on the spot market to independent purchasers.

                        Exxon, ARCO, Chevron, Shell, Texaco, Tosco and Unocal all entered into such supply-sharing agreements with at least one of their competitors.

                        * * *

                        In February 1993, Mobil, Texaco and Chevron (with the financial support of Exxon) filed a lawsuit to overturn the small refiners’ exemption to the CARB gas program, reducing the ability of small refiners to compete in the CARB gas market.

                        * * *

                        “If Powerine re-starts and gets the small refiner exemption, I believe the CARB market premium will be impacted. Could be as much as 2-3 cpg (cents per gallon)…The re-start of Powerine, which results in 20-25 TBD (thousand barrels per day) of gasoline supply . . . could . . . effectively set the CARB premium a couple of cpg lower . . . Needless to say, we would all like to see Powerine stay down. Full court press is warranted in this case.”
                        --Internal Mobil Corp. E-mail regarding Powerine refinery, February 6, 1996

                        The Powerine Oil Company refinery closed in 1995.
                        FINDING 3: Closing Refineries: Oil Companies Act to Inhibit Supply
                        Since 1995, 24 refineries have closed, including refineries in California, Illinois, Arizona, Oklahoma, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Michigan and Washington (the Tosco refinery has subsequently reopened), taking nearly 830,000 barrels a day of refining capacity offline. While capacity at some existing refineries expanded during this time, the fact is that more capacity would exist if these refineries were still operating.
                        FINDING 4: Record Profits: Oil Companies Reap Benefit of Higher Prices at Pump

                        Despite complaints indicting the cost of environmental compliance and manufacturing “boutique” fuels, in the [year] 2000 the oil and gas industry enjoyed record profits that reflect record gas prices.

                        According to Texaco’s 2000 Annual Report, the company’s production steadily decreased from 1998 to 2000, yet its net income more than quadrupled during the same period – with Texaco posting well above $2.4 billion in net income in 2000.

                        Among these four companies alone [Texaco, Chevron, ExxonMobil, and BP Amoco], profits for the year 2000 increased by over $22 billion dollars in one year. In light of these substantial profits, oil industry claims that they cannot afford to comply with environmental regulations or expand their refining capacity lack credibility.
                        FINDING 5: National Energy Policy Incentivizes Oil Companies to Expand Refinery Capacity
                        The Bush administration’s National Energy Policy, released in May, points to lagging profit margins and costly environmental regulations during the past decade as the reason for lost refinery capacity. The report also states that, “excess capacity may have deterred some new capacity investments in the past,” and that “more recently, other factors, such as regulations, have deterred investments.” . . .

                        [Bush's recommended policies] will reward the same oil companies who perpetuated the gasoline supply crunch, [who already enjoy] record profits because of their actions, [with] even higher profits by recognizing the cost savings of relaxed environmental standards.

                        As a result, oil and gas profits would continue to rise, the public would be saddled with the costs of dirtier air, and consumers would remain unprotected from high gas prices.


                        Interesting, very interesting,
                        Jim Don

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                          Oil companies work on a 9% profit, McDonald's works on a 12% profit and Microsoft works on a 29% profit. I'm wondering how many of us would want our profit margin controlled by someone else?

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            Why can't we have a candidate who will secure our borders, resolve the twenty million plus illegals living here, get us out of iraq and let Israel deal with iran, put a stop to this ethanol bull...t and undo the damage of NAFTA? Tall order which no one is going to fill.
                            Borders? The dems are looking towards illegals as future voters, the dems wont seal the borders. The reps wont do anything because the economy will get hammered without some cheap labor. There are plenty of americans who would do the work, the problem is that there are not enough americans to do the work.

                            Iraq? Neither dems nor reps have the political will to risk what could happen if we pull out quickly(Less than a few years).

                            Let Israel deal with Iran? Watch the price of oil go through the roof if that happens, Iran keeps pushing their luck so it may happen sooner than later. Personally, I think it would be a good thing because it would scare the arab world into keeping their mouths shut. I believe our handcuffing the Israelis from defending themselves causes more problems than it prevents.

                            Ethanol? Nafta? Nobody will be making any changes to the status quo on these items.
                            www.TheWoodCellar.com

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              Oil companies work on a 9% profit, McDonald's works on a 12% profit and Microsoft works on a 29% profit. I'm wondering how many of us would want our profit margin controlled by someone else?

                              Mark
                              I can appreciate your defense of our basic rights and incentives regarding work and profit, however in this case there is a difference because big oil's right to make a profit is threatening the stability of our economy. I think it is a matter of national defense not economics. We don't have to eat at McDonalds and we don't have to do business with Microsoft, but we sure as hell need oil to survive. I don't know how our government would go about controlling the damage done by speculators on the stock market, maybe if the national oil reserves were somehow opened and the market got weak it would hurt the investors enough to lower the price. I still don't think most people understand the nature of this crisis. Ask yourself if most working folks who are basically on fixed incomes as are retired folks, can afford to pay for these price increases at the pump, at the food store and to heat their homes? I say no and in the best interest of our country big oil must be regulated in such a way that truckers can haul goods, people can commute to work, feed their families and heat their homes. What did we accomplish by spending a trillion dollars and losing thousands of brave Americans in iraq if we allow our own country to fall?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                                Originally posted by Rafael View Post
                                Borders? The dems are looking towards illegals as future voters, the dems wont seal the borders. The reps wont do anything because the economy will get hammered without some cheap labor. There are plenty of americans who would do the work, the problem is that there are not enough americans to do the work.

                                Iraq? Neither dems nor reps have the political will to risk what could happen if we pull out quickly(Less than a few years).

                                Let Israel deal with Iran? Watch the price of oil go through the roof if that happens, Iran keeps pushing their luck so it may happen sooner than later. Personally, I think it would be a good thing because it would scare the arab world into keeping their mouths shut. I believe our handcuffing the Israelis from defending themselves causes more problems than it prevents.

                                Ethanol? Nafta? Nobody will be making any changes to the status quo on these items.
                                Agree, Agree, Agree, all they way. Sadly in my opinion this all adds up to the continuing decline of the once strong USA. One thing I'm not sure of is the cheap labor and not enough Americans to do the work theory. I think we might have enough American workers if the pay was sufficient to cover their expenses, as far as hammering the economy if we didn't lose all those jobs to the third world and illegals to begin with maybe we could afford the higher wages? I do agree that with the way things are now it would just be another nail in our economic coffin. Dems and republicans offer us nothing as I see it.

                                Comment

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