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Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

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  • #61
    Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

    You know what strikes me as odd? Reading through this tread it seems like most that have posted to it are conservative minded (democrat or republican) and I see very little support for Mr. Obama and I suspect even less for Mrs. Clinton. So how do these people keep getting elected and by whom? I'd like to think we have a pretty good cross section of America here.
    sigpic

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    • #62
      Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

      Well I do know I'll be having the wife read these posts, might give her a better insight.

      shup

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

        The oil companies are buying futures.
        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
          You know what strikes me as odd? Reading through this tread it seems like most that have posted to it are conservative minded (democrat or republican) and I see very little support for Mr. Obama and I suspect even less for Mrs. Clinton. So how do these people keep getting elected and by whom? I'd like to think we have a pretty good cross section of America here.
          This place is not a good cross section of America. Most (if not all) people here do things for themselves and dont rely on others, which is why we are attracted to this site. In general, Conservative folk are more the do it yourself type, democrats are more the let the government do it for me types.
          www.TheWoodCellar.com

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

            Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
            The oil companies are buying futures.
            Why shouldn't they? Oil futures seem like a good bet.
            www.TheWoodCellar.com

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

              Originally posted by Rafael View Post
              Why shouldn't they? Oil futures seem like a good bet.
              Actually oil companies are one of the entities that should be buying futures. Futures are designed for producers and consumers, and some futures markets actually limit participation to those who actually make or use the product. Oil Producers (which most of them are) can lock in a price to sell it at; letting them plan better. Consumers (which most of them are due to refining) can lock in a price to buy it at; letting them plan better.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                How do you lead this nation.......wait......how do you stand at a podium pronouncing better healthcare when your vices indicate otherwise?







                I used to smoke started at 15.. It took me like a thousand tries befor I finally kicked it.. Havent had one in 2 and a half years... I want a story on abc website.

                Angie
                Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 06-11-2008, 12:52 PM.
                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                • #68
                  Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  As we ponder the price of fuel, remember that a consideral percentage of the pump price is taxes levied by the Fed and State. So does the government really have an incentive to step in?
                  I may be wrong, but I thought the taxes on fuel were per gallon, not a percentage of the price. I think the fact that the oil syndicates all but own the politicians is a great incentive for them NOT to step in. If there is anything politicians worry about more than getting tax revenue, it's getting campaign money to be re/elected. How many millions are the presidential candidates spending? It's obscene. Until that part of the political process is changed we might as well just bend over and take it.

                  I have not read Obama's books, but I do know enough of his story to know that the quotes that have him saying racist things are a true representation of how he felt when he was younger, as a bi-racial kid trying to find his identity. If anyone really wants to see how he grew into and out of those beliefs they should damn well read the whole thing instead of quoting things out of context and pretending it means anything. If any one of us were going to be honest about how we grew into what we are today we would have many unflattering things to recall that would not represent how we feel today.

                  I don't love Obama. He is far more fiscally liberal than I am. Tax and spend. I don't like it. What I also don't like is the modern day republicans still getting credit for Reagan's fiscal conservatism when they have increased spending faster than ANY previous cabinet--including Clinton. Don't tax, but still spend? That is worse. I thought it was the liberals who wanted something for nothing. Running the country on credit ain't conservative, it's greedy and stupid.

                  And, come on!

                  Anyone who thinks Obama doesn't know there are 50 states is hopefully just playing dumb. He does say a lot more than "change, hope, change, hope" You can easily look up his proposed policy in depth in nearly the same amount of time it takes to type right wing talking points on a tool forum.

                  The most upsetting part of this whole damn mess we call a democracy is the way it lures otherwise reasonable people into being intellectually dishonest in order to beat their drum. I hate it.

                  He is not a Muslim, whether he wears a fricken flag tie pin is beyond irrelevant, he went to a church with an entertaining and occasionally offensive preacher so he could network with thousands of people like many people do, and when it became hot he went on record to disavow him. He does say the pledge of allegiance. Black people, including his wife, have had ample reasons to NOT be proud of this country through out the years, as have we all if we are not blind, and that is PART of being patriotic. In fact, that is what makes us strive to improve. You are proud of what is good and work on what is lacking.

                  You want to dislike Obama for something? How about that he is practically socialist? That is a reason to not like him. Focusing on the fact that he once wore a traditional head dress from Kenya and that his mother gave him the same middle name as someone who forty plus years later become an infamous dictator? That is insulting to YOUR intellect. Cut that **** out, man!

                  It's all one big contradiction after another.

                  The right--religious, but capitalist? Jesus himself said trying to be rich is a sin. Help the poor. Love your enemy. Turn the other cheek. WTF happens to all of that in the religious right?

                  The left--tolerance of everything and everybody--unless they don't agree with your idea of what tolerance is. That can't be tolerated. We need to have the government legislate every faction of everybody's life in order to make sure they don't hint at impeding someone else's rights. Works great.

                  It's all BS. It is all a farce in order to steal from us, the producers. The power base in this country, the wealthy, will never relinquish what they have. Are we really gonna fight each other over which liar they offer us to vote for is the most worstest liar? They own them all! They are all in the pockets of industry, not even industry in THIS country necessarily. Millions upon millions to even be in the race and we think we got a chance for those who win to look out for us?

                  But hey, as long as the news is going to keep blowing up the most sensational mis-speak and treat the run to the most powerful office in the world like they are reporting on a damn horse race...I guess we might as well treat it like any other sports event. Oh! Who is in the lead today in what pole of what demographic after they said what thing that who can pretend they are really insulted by? I don't know what they want to do about social security, but I do know that they are not one of those effin donkeys/elephants!

                  Go team!!




                  Eli
                  A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                    Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                    I may be wrong, but I thought the taxes on fuel were per gallon, not a percentage of the price.
                    I think that is true of the federal tax (something around $.19/gallon), but not of local taxes. Our sales tax is 7.875% where I live, so of the $4.25 we pay for gas another $.31 would be for just the regular state and local sales tax. I wouldn't doubt there are additional special state taxes on gas (but I don't know).

                    A few years ago I saw a sticker on the pumps at a station down the street from me pointing out how little the owner of the station made and how the rest of it was distributed. You would think that instead of posting only the price with all taxes included like they do now, they would post that price (because doing anything else is probably illegal); but also post how much the government is taking out of your hide/gallon so that people would get mad at them and not just the oil companies.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                      Originally posted by cpw View Post
                      I think that is true of the federal tax (something around $.19/gallon), but not of local taxes. Our sales tax is 7.875% where I live, so of the $4.25 we pay for gas another $.31 would be for just the regular state and local sales tax. I wouldn't doubt there are additional special state taxes on gas (but I don't know).

                      A few years ago I saw a sticker on the pumps at a station down the street from me pointing out how little the owner of the station made and how the rest of it was distributed. You would think that instead of posting only the price with all taxes included like they do now, they would post that price (because doing anything else is probably illegal); but also post how much the government is taking out of your hide/gallon so that people would get mad at them and not just the oil companies.
                      That would be interesting! I also heard that someone wanted them to have to post what country the oil came from and what percentage of your price was going to which government in the middle east or south America. Might make conserving a little less painful as well.


                      Eli
                      A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                        Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                        I may be wrong, but I thought the taxes on fuel were per gallon, not a percentage of the price. I think the fact that the oil syndicates all but own the politicians is a great incentive for them NOT to step in. If there is anything politicians worry about more than getting tax revenue, it's getting campaign money to be re/elected. How many millions are the presidential candidates spending? It's obscene. Until that part of the political process is changed we might as well just bend over and take it.

                        I have not read Obama's books, but I do know enough of his story to know that the quotes that have him saying racist things are a true representation of how he felt when he was younger, as a bi-racial kid trying to find his identity. If anyone really wants to see how he grew into and out of those beliefs they should damn well read the whole thing instead of quoting things out of context and pretending it means anything. If any one of us were going to be honest about how we grew into what we are today we would have many unflattering things to recall that would not represent how we feel today.

                        I don't love Obama. He is far more fiscally liberal than I am. Tax and spend. I don't like it. What I also don't like is the modern day republicans still getting credit for Reagan's fiscal conservatism when they have increased spending faster than ANY previous cabinet--including Clinton. Don't tax, but still spend? That is worse. I thought it was the liberals who wanted something for nothing. Running the country on credit ain't conservative, it's greedy and stupid.

                        And, come on!

                        Anyone who thinks Obama doesn't know there are 50 states is hopefully just playing dumb. He does say a lot more than "change, hope, change, hope" You can easily look up his proposed policy in depth in nearly the same amount of time it takes to type right wing talking points on a tool forum.

                        The most upsetting part of this whole damn mess we call a democracy is the way it lures otherwise reasonable people into being intellectually dishonest in order to beat their drum. I hate it.

                        He is not a Muslim, whether he wears a fricken flag tie pin is beyond irrelevant, he went to a church with an entertaining and occasionally offensive preacher so he could network with thousands of people like many people do, and when it became hot he went on record to disavow him. He does say the pledge of allegiance. Black people, including his wife, have had ample reasons to NOT be proud of this country through out the years, as have we all if we are not blind, and that is PART of being patriotic. In fact, that is what makes us strive to improve. You are proud of what is good and work on what is lacking.

                        You want to dislike Obama for something? How about that he is practically socialist? That is a reason to not like him. Focusing on the fact that he once wore a traditional head dress from Kenya and that his mother gave him the same middle name as someone who forty plus years later become an infamous dictator? That is insulting to YOUR intellect. Cut that **** out, man!

                        It's all one big contradiction after another.

                        The right--religious, but capitalist? Jesus himself said trying to be rich is a sin. Help the poor. Love your enemy. Turn the other cheek. WTF happens to all of that in the religious right?

                        The left--tolerance of everything and everybody--unless they don't agree with your idea of what tolerance is. That can't be tolerated. We need to have the government legislate every faction of everybody's life in order to make sure they don't hint at impeding someone else's rights. Works great.

                        It's all BS. It is all a farce in order to steal from us, the producers. The power base in this country, the wealthy, will never relinquish what they have. Are we really gonna fight each other over which liar they offer us to vote for is the most worstest liar? They own them all! They are all in the pockets of industry, not even industry in THIS country necessarily. Millions upon millions to even be in the race and we think we got a chance for those who win to look out for us?

                        But hey, as long as the news is going to keep blowing up the most sensational mis-speak and treat the run to the most powerful office in the world like they are reporting on a damn horse race...I guess we might as well treat it like any other sports event. Oh! Who is in the lead today in what pole of what demographic after they said what thing that who can pretend they are really insulted by? I don't know what they want to do about social security, but I do know that they are not one of those effin donkeys/elephants!

                        Go team!!




                        Eli

                        I second all this. Well said.
                        Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                          Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                          I may be wrong, but I thought the taxes on fuel were per gallon, not a percentage of the price. I think the fact that the oil syndicates all but own the politicians is a great incentive for them NOT to step in. If there is anything politicians worry about more than getting tax revenue, it's getting campaign money to be re/elected. How many millions are the presidential candidates spending? It's obscene. Until that part of the political process is changed we might as well just bend over and take it.

                          I have not read Obama's books, but I do know enough of his story to know that the quotes that have him saying racist things are a true representation of how he felt when he was younger, as a bi-racial kid trying to find his identity. If anyone really wants to see how he grew into and out of those beliefs they should damn well read the whole thing instead of quoting things out of context and pretending it means anything. If any one of us were going to be honest about how we grew into what we are today we would have many unflattering things to recall that would not represent how we feel today.



                          (We are not the ones running for the presidency.)



                          I don't love Obama. He is far more fiscally liberal than I am. Tax and spend. I don't like it. What I also don't like is the modern day republicans still getting credit for Reagan's fiscal conservatism when they have increased spending faster than ANY previous cabinet--including Clinton. Don't tax, but still spend? That is worse. I thought it was the liberals who wanted something for nothing. Running the country on credit ain't conservative, it's greedy and stupid.



                          (Not to make excuses for the current administrations fiscal policy but they did have to create Homeland Security and other departments, pay for the war in Afghanistan, and wheather you agree or not the war in Iraq.)



                          And, come on!

                          Anyone who thinks Obama doesn't know there are 50 states is hopefully just playing dumb. He does say a lot more than "change, hope, change, hope" You can easily look up his proposed policy in depth in nearly the same amount of time it takes to type right wing talking points on a tool forum.

                          (The 50 states thing doesnt mean much to me but if I was drinking all night and the next morning I was hungover and tired and someone asked me how many states there are I dont think I would get that wrong. They may be talking points but it is what it is Eli. How about not knowing the difference between Memorial Day and Veterans Day? He is trying to be Commander-In-Chief.)



                          The most upsetting part of this whole damn mess we call a democracy is the way it lures otherwise reasonable people into being intellectually dishonest in order to beat their drum. I hate it.



                          He is not a Muslim, whether he wears a fricken flag tie pin is beyond irrelevant, he went to a church with an entertaining and occasionally offensive preacher so he could network with thousands of people like many people do, and when it became hot he went on record to disavow him. He does say the pledge of allegiance. Black people, including his wife, have had ample reasons to NOT be proud of this country through out the years, as have we all if we are not blind, and that is PART of being patriotic. In fact, that is what makes us strive to improve. You are proud of what is good and work on what is lacking.

                          (He was a Muslim, that is a fact. About the flag pin, He now wears it, how come? I thought he was against wearing it. Now that he is catching flack over it he decides to wear it? Is that what he will do WHEN he is president? Will he take a stand on IMPORTANT things? The part about not being proud of our country is bull, he and his wife were given opportunities that many Americans are not given. If She thinks that "in 2008 America is a downright mean country" then I dont want her to be in the white house.)



                          You want to dislike Obama for something? How about that he is practically socialist? That is a reason to not like him. Focusing on the fact that he once wore a traditional head dress from Kenya and that his mother gave him the same middle name as someone who forty plus years later become an infamous dictator? That is insulting to YOUR intellect. Cut that **** out, man!



                          It's all one big contradiction after another.



                          The right--religious, but capitalist? Jesus himself said trying to be rich is a sin. Help the poor. Love your enemy. Turn the other cheek. WTF happens to all of that in the religious right?

                          (it has nothing to do with Jesus)



                          The left--tolerance of everything and everybody--unless they don't agree with your idea of what tolerance is. That can't be tolerated. We need to have the government legislate every faction of everybody's life in order to make sure they don't hint at impeding someone else's rights. Works great.

                          It's all BS. It is all a farce in order to steal from us, the producers. The power base in this country, the wealthy, will never relinquish what they have. Are we really gonna fight each other over which liar they offer us to vote for is the most worstest liar? They own them all! They are all in the pockets of industry, not even industry in THIS country necessarily. Millions upon millions to even be in the race and we think we got a chance for those who win to look out for us?

                          But hey, as long as the news is going to keep blowing up the most sensational mis-speak and treat the run to the most powerful office in the world like they are reporting on a damn horse race...I guess we might as well treat it like any other sports event. Oh! Who is in the lead today in what pole of what demographic after they said what thing that who can pretend they are really insulted by? I don't know what they want to do about social security, but I do know that they are not one of those effin donkeys/elephants!

                          Go team!!




                          Eli

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                            (We are not the ones running for the presidency.)

                            ~~That doesn't change what I said. I guess we see differently on this topic but I don't expect my candidates to be infallible for their entire lives. I don't think any of the previous candidates have been. I won't even make an example of the last one elected because I know that pisses you off, so enough said. But anyone who has grown into a man of principals has had those principals shaped and forged. Those who can be honest about that process are more interesting and at least SEEM more real. McCain has changed his mind on many issues over the years and I don't fault him for it.






                            (Not to make excuses for the current administrations fiscal policy but they did have to create Homeland Security and other departments, pay for the war in Afghanistan, and wheather you agree or not the war in Iraq.)

                            You may not know this but you can take all military spending AND homeland defense out of the equation and it is still true. across the board. The wars are a whole other can of worms. I never did agree with the reasoning behind going into Iraq. The inspectors were right all along. I don't care if Clinton, Mrs. Clinton or Gramps Clinton believed there were WMDs there. Add them into the mess of political nincompoops, I don't defend them for it at all. They certainly didn't get that info based on what the inspectors on the ground in Iraq reported. The evidence given by Powell was believable, but turned out to be cooked. At very best it was complete incompetence that has to date cost us enough to pay for SS for the next 70-80 years. They were wrong about everything from reason to invade, to time it would take, to cost of the operation...and the worst part about it is there were people--experts--telling them the real truth all along and they ignored it. And even when you subtract this enormous debacle from the equation, even when you subtract Homeland security, this has been the most government growth in size and spending in history. They are not conservative. They have you duped.



                            (The 50 states thing doesnt mean much to me but if I was drinking all night and the next morning I was hungover and tired and someone asked me how many states there are I dont think I would get that wrong. They may be talking points but it is what it is Eli. How about not knowing the difference between Memorial Day and Veterans Day? He is trying to be Commander-In-Chief.)

                            Look, I see your point here. But we have to be realistic. When you are campaigning all day every day and have every thing you say recorded for months it does not seem that crazy that you might make an error like saying 57 instead of 47. Again, with only our most recent President as example with far less time in front of the cameras has misspoke in similar ways often. I don't think if you asked Obama to name the 50 states he'd have a problem, do you? I also don't believe that Bush doesn't know the difference between Iran and Iraq when he mixed those two up, twice in one statement. We want a capable person in the whitehouse, but they will still be a person.

                            Memorial day and veterans day. Sunni and Shiate. Which is more important to be clear on? In a perfect world we wouldn't have to ask.





                            (He was a Muslim, that is a fact. About the flag pin, He now wears it, how come? I thought he was against wearing it. Now that he is catching flack over it he decides to wear it? Is that what he will do WHEN he is president? Will he take a stand on IMPORTANT things? The part about not being proud of our country is bull, he and his wife were given opportunities that many Americans are not given. If She thinks that "in 2008 America is a downright mean country" then I dont want her to be in the white house.)

                            ~~I don't want to just defend Obama, but we have had former drug users, alcoholics etc. as president. I don't care about that. Someone who was a Muslim when he was a kid and not making his own choices? I for one do not care.

                            The flag pin, he didn't say he was against it, he said he wears one sometimes and not others. He said wearing one because people were pointing it out would make the gesture empty. Now he is wearing it again because he wants to. Is he never allowed to again? I don't get it. The people who put it on like a medal of honor to jump on a bandwagon are more patriotic? Cripes, it shouldn't be worn as an accessory at all according to strict tradition. And in the end I just don't think it is relevant to the job. We can agree to disagree on it's significance.

                            His wife saying America is "downright mean"? Up to you how you take it and what significance you assign it. I don't take it as a blanket statement. It would be hard to make any judgment on an entire country and it's history and policies in so few words, and I have a hard time pretending it is possible let alone probable. To tell you the truth, I just don't offend that easily. I don't even really care to find out what exactly she meant by it because I would likely agree with some of it, disagree with other parts of it, and not find it the least bit relevant to her husband running the country.

                            And even more to the point, why the hell do we all become so sensitive to these words? You do not strike me as a shrinking violet MP. Most Republicans, with good reason, are fed up with the "political correctness" police on the left. You are playing the same game, in my opinion, when you act as if these little things are so offensive. Follow it through and tell me what it would mean to have a first lady who said she is proud of her country for the first time in her lifetime because she sees a hunger for change in the population? I'll even suspend the rational part in both of us that KNOWS this statement does not mean she has been ashamed to be an American in every way every moment up until this point. Let's pretend it does mean that. So what will happen if he is elected and she gets in the White house? Something more relevant than the actual policies the candidates may stand for? Tell me because I really want to understand it.



                            (it has nothing to do with Jesus)

                            ~~It sure does when it comes to abortion, marriage, the war on Christmas, the ten commandments on government property and if Obama is a "Muslim" name. When it comes to the wealthy getting into heaven being as likely as a camel through the eye of a needle, or social programs--not so much. That is pinko stuff. Don't get me wrong, I don't follow the Bible. But I don't claim to while only following the parts I like and blatantly shirking the rest of the message either. To me it is just another fine example of the hypocrisy of the political system and how it manipulates people--Americans--in a way that is despicable.

                            You know who I like this cycle? Bob Barr. He is not perfect by any means, but
                            we absolutely have to get back some of what we have lost to both the Dem and Repub version of big government.



                            Eli
                            Last edited by woodenstickers; 06-12-2008, 01:16 PM. Reason: Trying to do some fancy bolding effects.
                            A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                              The 1 fact is that he was a member of a racist, anti-white, anti-semitic church for 20 years. He knew that the church of the reverend had these feelings/beliefs. If he wasn't running for pres he would still be a member of this church today.
                              This alone means any or all of the following:
                              He is a racist.
                              He is a fool.
                              He has incredibly poor judgement.

                              Does anybody here want a man with these qualities to be our next president?
                              www.TheWoodCellar.com

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Maybe it's just me...(Another Obama thread)

                                Originally posted by Rafael View Post
                                He is a fool.
                                He has incredibly poor judgement.

                                are we talking about bush????



                                sorry i just couldn't help my self
                                9/11/01, never forget.

                                Comment

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