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  • #31
    Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

    Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
    Ahhh, well. I see a straw man or red herring and I gotta fall for it. When Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, they were the liberal party and Democrats were the conservative party. The parties underwent massive switches at several points in history and have basically changed poles completely from Lincolns time. Whether you want to get into the question of which party Lincoln's values most closely represent in todays Dem/Rep or not, claiming emancipation as a Republican value is based on name alone and either misinformed or dishonest.

    Simplifying the liberal message to say that liberals as a whole think minorities need welfare because they can't compete is bull. If you really believe that you are not as sharp as your posts make you sound. The welfare state has enough REAL issues, and Liberals have enough REAL targets to shoot at without making ludicrous statements.

    I agree with a lot of what you say, and it is well presented, but cripes man. Give up the BS. It shouldn't be necessary if you feel you are right.



    Eli
    Well, maybe so. But is'nt that what we do? Take things out of context, manipulate the facts to serve our needs? And hell, might as well have some fun at the same time. do I believe Obama really thinks there;s 57 states? Of course not, he miss-spoke. But what I do notice is that the press will give the faux pas little or no coverage where if Mr. Bush mispronounces nuclear, it's good for three days of wall to wall coverage. It's haow we run campaigns now. The issues, the true facts have little to do with anything, anymore. It's all about perception. I like to compare the primaries to American Idol. It does'nt matter if you can sing well, you only have to sing pretty well as long as you are good looking and perform well in front of the cameras.

    Any way, Bud, thanks for raining on my parade
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

      Before I get too far off track I injured my shoulder 3-years ago and now have what is called a frozen shoulder. I cannot lift my arm above my shoulder and it is easily injured. I have another surgery scheduled but I am not sure when it will happen. The original injury was a broken clavicle and shoulder from a ladder accident.

      Our medical is second to none and even non-residents are given emergency care. There are clinics for the uninsured but you have to wait in lines similar to what I have been told happens in Canada. The reason I bring up non-residents is a young lady who grew up in our home moved to Australia and married an Australian man. When she went to the hospital for a C-section she had no insurance as her citizenship papers were not complete. They had to pay for the delivery themselves. This is basically what happens in the States as well but no one ever collect the money.

      I have several Uranium mines across the highway from my place in Utah but they were all closed because the Uranium in Canada is so plentiful. However, I have heard there is currently an effort to start up both the gold mines and the Uranium mines in my area of Utah.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

        Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
        Ahhh, well. I see a straw man or red herring and I gotta fall for it. When Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, they were the liberal party and Democrats were the conservative party. The parties underwent massive switches at several points in history and have basically changed poles completely from Lincolns time. Whether you want to get into the question of which party Lincoln's values most closely represent in todays Dem/Rep or not, claiming emancipation as a Republican value is based on name alone and either misinformed or dishonest.

        Simplifying the liberal message to say that liberals as a whole think minorities need welfare because they can't compete is bull. If you really believe that you are not as sharp as your posts make you sound. The welfare state has enough REAL issues, and Liberals have enough REAL targets to shoot at without making ludicrous statements.

        I agree with a lot of what you say, and it is well presented, but cripes man. Give up the BS. It shouldn't be necessary if you feel you are right.



        Eli
        Not so fast Eli. Your statement about the Democrat and Republican parties are not exactly 100% true. The 1964 Civil Rights Act was Filibustered by a majority of DEMOCRATS. It was Robert Byrd (D) who led
        the way on the Filibuster. Also in on that was Al Gore Sr.

        Heres the way the parties voted. It looks to me the Republicans were more after equality then were the Dems.
        By party

        The original House version:[7]
        • Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
        • Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)
        The Senate version:[7]
        • Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
        • Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)
        The Senate version, voted on by the House:[7]
        • Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
        • Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

        Heres the link to the whole Civil Rights Act of 1964 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
        Last edited by Masterplumb; 06-15-2008, 08:31 AM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

          Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
          Not so fast Eli. Your statement about the Democrat and Republican parties are not exactly 100% true. The 1964 Civil Rights Act was Filibustered by a majority of DEMOCRATS. It was Robert Byrd (D) who led
          the way on the Filibuster. Also in on that was Al Gore Sr.

          Heres the way the parties voted. It looks to me the Republicans were more after equality then were the Dems.
          By party

          The original House version:[7]
          • Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
          • Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)
          The Senate version:[7]
          • Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
          • Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)
          The Senate version, voted on by the House:[7]
          • Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
          • Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

          Heres the link to the whole Civil Rights Act of 1964 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
          I'm not EVEN going to take on the question of which party is more or less racist/for civil rights. That isn't one I care to touch. I was just correcting the Lincoln thing.

          After this primary any Dem would be hard pressed to claim racial harmony in the party. I used to respect Bill Clinton (somewhat), but after some of the things he said in the last few months, not at all anymore. And those were registered Democrats that they were quoting saying things about how they would never vote for a n-----. It runs through each party and whichever one can claim the least win no points from me.

          But ah hell, just to have some fun with you guys like NHMaster said, I wonder which party it will be to have the first viable non-white male presidential candidate run?

          BTW I am NOT a Democrat. If there were more loopy libs on here arguing about how high gas prices are good and 9/11 was an inside job I'd be just as active there. Not a lot of them on a tool forum. I guess they are all...um...wait, I can get this...sipping their latte frappubinos and trying to figure out how long till they can take the next step to legalize human/pet marriage, or busy washing their tie-dyed Che shirts with organic patchouli detergent? In a Cafe!

          Just kidding. We all know hippies don't wash their shirts. But seriously, again, doesn't clouding the debate with nonsense really harm the political process and therefore the country?



          Eli



          PS Opals, Platypi, Dundee, Elle Macpherson...all kinds of useful stuff comes from Down Under!
          Last edited by woodenstickers; 06-15-2008, 10:14 AM.
          A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

            NHMaster3015Well, maybe so. But is'nt that what we do? Take things out of context, manipulate the facts to serve our needs? And hell, might as well have some fun at the same time. do I believe Obama really thinks there;s 57 states? Of course not, he miss-spoke. But what I do notice is that the press will give the faux pas little or no coverage where if Mr. Bush mispronounces nuclear, it's good for three days of wall to wall coverage.

            If this is true, do we then fight fire with fire? I mean, I don't know...I'd be lying if I said all the spinning in an internet forum amounts to much more than an irritation in it's real power to do harm. I guess I just don't want to buy into the medias bullshit machine by a. being distracted by it b. feeding in my own bullshit to try to counteract it or c. letting it determine how politics are discussed among rational people. Maybe I'm dreaming, but I know that there is NO way we will get them to stop if we feed into it and let it become our actual culture.



            It's haow we run campaigns now. The issues, the true facts have little to do with anything, anymore. It's all about perception. I like to compare the primaries to American Idol. It does'nt matter if you can sing well, you only have to sing pretty well as long as you are good looking and perform well in front of the cameras.

            I used to argue that video games and TV being violent were a reflection of society and not a cause of behavior (back when I was a teenager listening to gangster rap and against the world), but seeing how the media had changed even in my young adult life, and seeing how that has changed the public AND the government proves to me that it is not just powerful, but all powerful.

            Any way, Bud, thanks for raining on my parade

            Sorry. This response probably won't dry out the marching band!



            Eli
            Last edited by woodenstickers; 06-15-2008, 10:27 AM.
            A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

              Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
              I'm not EVEN going to take on the question of which party is more or less racist/for civil rights. That isn't one I care to touch. I was just correcting the Lincoln thing.

              After this primary any Dem would be hard pressed to claim racial harmony in the party. I used to respect Bill Clinton (somewhat), but after some of the things he said in the last few months, not at all anymore. And those were registered Democrats that they were quoting saying things about how they would never vote for a n-----. It runs through each party and whichever one can claim the least win no points from me.

              But ah hell, just to have some fun with you guys like NHMaster said, I wonder which party it will be to have the first viable non-white male presidential candidate run?

              BTW I am NOT a Democrat. If there were more loopy libs on here arguing about how high gas prices are good and 9/11 was an inside job I'd be just as active there. Not a lot of them on a tool forum. I guess they are all...um...wait, I can get this...sipping their latte frappubinos and trying to figure out how long till they can take the next step to legalize human/pet marriage, or busy washing their tie-dyed Che shirts with organic patchouli detergent? In a Cafe!

              Just kidding. We all know hippies don't wash their shirts. But seriously, again, doesn't clouding the debate with nonsense really harm the political process and therefore the country?



              Eli



              PS Opals, Platypi, Dundee, Elle Macpherson...all kinds of useful stuff comes from Down Under!
              You may want to stay away from that issue, but you opened the can of worms with the Lincoln Democrat/Republican issue.

              I never said useful stuff never came from Australia. I have a few friends from down under. i like Fosters, AC/DC and can actually throw a boomerang. G'day mate.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                But, what are you gonna do? In a world where more than 1/2 of young adults get all the news from the Daily Show, and worse yet believe it. It makes my head spin.
                As for violent video games being a reflection of a violent society. Not really. What they are is a reflection of self indulgent, parents too damn lazy to interact with and control their children.

                Here's some advice for parents, from someone that sees them 8 hrs a day.

                Get off your *** and find out what your kid is doing.
                Limit the time and exposure your kid has to the internet
                Limit the time and tye of video games your kid plays
                Listen to what he or she has downloaded to their I pod.
                Take away their damned cell phone.
                Check their homework and progress in school, daily.
                Eat dinner with them
                Take them exploring
                Nurture and encourage them, show them a world outside some damned electronic device.
                kids are a sponge, be very carefull what they soak up.

                Yes it's work, a lot more work than conceiving them was.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                  Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                  NHMaster3015Well, maybe so. But is'nt that what we do? Take things out of context, manipulate the facts to serve our needs? And hell, might as well have some fun at the same time. do I believe Obama really thinks there;s 57 states? Of course not, he miss-spoke. But what I do notice is that the press will give the faux pas little or no coverage where if Mr. Bush mispronounces nuclear, it's good for three days of wall to wall coverage.

                  If this is true, do we then fight fire with fire? I mean, I don't know...I'd be lying if I said all the spinning in an internet forum amounts to much more than an irritation in it's real power to do harm. I guess I just don't want to buy into the medias bullshit machine by a. being distracted by it b. feeding in my own bullshit to try to counteract it or c. letting it determine how politics are discussed among rational people. Maybe I'm dreaming, but I know that there is NO way we will get them to stop if we feed into it and let it become our actual culture.


                  It's haow we run campaigns now. The issues, the true facts have little to do with anything, anymore. It's all about perception. I like to compare the primaries to American Idol. It does'nt matter if you can sing well, you only have to sing pretty well as long as you are good looking and perform well in front of the cameras.

                  I used to argue that video games and TV being violent were a reflection of society and not a cause of behavior (back when I was a teenager listening to gangster rap and against the world), but seeing how the media had changed even in my young adult life, and seeing how that has changed the public AND the government proves to me that it is not just powerful, but all powerful.

                  Any way, Bud, thanks for raining on my parade

                  Sorry. This response probably won't dry out the marching band!



                  Eli
                  No offense Eli, but I cant picture you being down with the C.P.T. blasting Straight Outta Compton and 100 miles and running!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                    But, what are you gonna do? In a world where more than 1/2 of young adults get all the news from the Daily Show, and worse yet believe it. It makes my head spin.
                    As for violent video games being a reflection of a violent society. Not really. What they are is a reflection of self indulgent, parents too damn lazy to interact with and control their children.

                    Here's some advice for parents, from someone that sees them 8 hrs a day.

                    Get off your *** and find out what your kid is doing.
                    Limit the time and exposure your kid has to the internet
                    Limit the time and tye of video games your kid plays
                    Listen to what he or she has downloaded to their I pod.
                    Take away their damned cell phone.
                    Check their homework and progress in school, daily.
                    Eat dinner with them
                    Take them exploring
                    Nurture and encourage them, show them a world outside some damned electronic device.
                    kids are a sponge, be very carefull what they soak up.

                    Yes it's work, a lot more work than conceiving them was.
                    Exactly! It is the parents and ONLY the parents who have responsibility for their kids.

                    I agree 100% I don't blame the games or media for the effect they can have on society, I just now believe that they do have an effect. Same with our little subject, I don't blame talk radio or comedy central, I blame the adults who let it mold their ideas and even worse their way of thinking on and discussing of the issues. That's you and me.


                    Eli
                    A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                      Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                      No offense Eli, but I cant picture you being down with the C.P.T. blasting Straight Outta Compton and 100 miles and running!
                      None taken! I won't say that having an angel face and hot and cold running vocabulary didn't keep me out of a lot of consequences for my actions when I was younger.
                      A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                        Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                        You may want to stay away from that issue, but you opened the can of worms with the Lincoln Democrat/Republican issue.

                        I never said useful stuff never came from Australia. I have a few friends from down under. i like Fosters, AC/DC and can actually throw a boomerang. G'day mate.
                        I was responding to the implications of claiming Lincoln as a Republican as if it were congruent to todays Republican Party. And someone else said that Australia had no useful exports. I honestly don't think my list qualifies anyway!

                        Look, I am not completely above the fray here. I used to engage in the tit for tat battles online and the one up arguments. I earned my stripes in those battles. I was goooood at it too. Shut down many a craigslist rants and raves thread But I realized that I was full of it a lot of the time, trying to win the argument instead of trying to figure out what it real and what the hell is happening to the country. I want to have kids. I don't want them to grow up dealing with Limbaugh vs Rosie as their political compass any more than I want them to have Britany or emenem as their moral compass. It's got to start somewhere.


                        Eli
                        A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                          with NO disrespect to ANYONE:

                          arguing politics on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. even IF you win, you're still retarded.

                          extremists on both sidea are what is wrong with this country and every other country in the world.

                          steve
                          In the never ending struggle to keep the water flowing.... The Poo Poo Cowboy rides again!!!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                            Originally posted by stxrus View Post
                            with NO disrespect to ANYONE:

                            arguing politics on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. even IF you win, you're still retarded.

                            extremists on both sidea are what is wrong with this country and every other country in the world.

                            steve
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                              But, what are you gonna do? In a world where more than 1/2 of young adults get all the news from the Daily Show, and worse yet believe it.
                              I'm gonna step up and defend the Daily Show. Unlike most news shows Jon Stewart doesn't pretend he is unbiased. He also often calls out ridiculousness on both sides. I know he is liberal, but as a conservative I can still enjoy watching his show. Also, I think the interviews on the Daily Show are far better than most any other news show. Jon Stewart asks a question, and then waits for an answer. He doesn't cut off the answer either, and there is an actual communication of ideas going on.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Is there a doctor in the forum

                                Originally posted by cpw View Post
                                I'm gonna step up and defend the Daily Show. Unlike most news shows Jon Stewart doesn't pretend he is unbiased. He also often calls out ridiculousness on both sides. I know he is liberal, but as a conservative I can still enjoy watching his show. Also, I think the interviews on the Daily Show are far better than most any other news show. Jon Stewart asks a question, and then waits for an answer. He doesn't cut off the answer either, and there is an actual communication of ideas going on.
                                I understand what you are saying but I believe we need to remember which shows are really "news" shows and which are entertainment.

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

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