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Presidential Election 2008

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  • #61
    Re: Presidential Election 2008

    Originally posted by smorris View Post
    Have you ever talked to anyone from Canada about their socialized health care program? Sure, drugs are cheaper. But you get whatever doctor is assigned to you rather than who you want, and wait weeks to get an appointment. That's why so many Canadians come to Cleveland for the Cleveland Clinic or University Hospital's superior care. Care like that is not available to the average Canadian.
    I am not going to debate this. My wife is not from Canada, but she is from a country with socialized healthcare and I'd take that over what we have now any day. There are rich countries in Europe that have a higher average income and living standard than we do and yet they have socialized healthcare. If you like the system the way it is, thats fine. I personally do not.
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    • #62
      Re: Presidential Election 2008

      Originally posted by smorris View Post
      Have you ever talked to anyone from Canada about their socialized health care program? Sure, drugs are cheaper. But you get whatever doctor is assigned to you rather than who you want, and wait weeks to get an appointment. That's why so many Canadians come to Cleveland for the Cleveland Clinic or University Hospital's superior care. Care like that is not available to the average Canadian. We have some of the best health care in the world, but not necessarily the cheapest. I'd rather pay more for agood doctor than pay less of just anyone who happens to get their license to practice medicine.

      I'm vehemently opposed to socialized health care but Wooden Stickers gives an interesting account of his mother's (mother-in-laws?) experience that was favorable. Probably anectdotal though.
      "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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      • #63
        Re: Presidential Election 2008

        "Obama: A change you can believe in!"

        That should get everybody riled up!

        I know everyone so far is anti-obama. I always liked playing devil's advocate. Its all in good fun.
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        • #64
          Re: Presidential Election 2008

          I have no first hand knowledge of the Canadian system. All I know about it was sitting around in the halls of Cleveland Clinic for three weeks with my Dad in ICU. I had conversations with several Canadians here for medical care they couldn't get at home that said we'd be downright stupid to ever enact socialized health care.
          Steve
          www.MorrisGarage.com

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          • #65
            Re: Presidential Election 2008

            Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
            I'm vehemently opposed to socialized health care but Wooden Stickers gives an interesting account of his mother's (mother-in-laws?) experience that was favorable. Probably anectdotal though.
            I am also very opposed to socialized healthcare, but I think that even if you are for it; there is value in having it passed with two parties in power than just a single one. If you are going to make big, permanent changes to something that is very important I would argue that it makes sense to have those changes go through proper scrutiny from multiple perspectives.

            I want a Republican president, if nothing else, to veto the most aggregious things that come out of the Democratic controlled congress. I sometimes think that having the Republicans in congress and Bush in the Whitehouse has done us a disservice, because they were too chummy and just increasd the size of government spending money like there's no tomorrow (and for politicians there isn't, by the time "tomorrow" comes they'll have a cushy job at a lobbying firm or hedge fund).

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            • #66
              Re: Presidential Election 2008

              I have no first hand knowledge of the Canadian system. All I know about it was sitting around in the halls of Cleveland Clinic for three weeks with my Dad in ICU. I had conversations with several Canadians here for medical care they couldn't get at home that said we'd be downright stupid to ever enact socialized health care.
              I don't have firsthand knowledge of Canada's system either smorris.
              Huh, all the Canadians I have talked to have thought it laughable that we don't have it yet.
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              • #67
                Re: Presidential Election 2008

                Originally posted by smorris View Post
                Have you ever talked to anyone from Canada about their socialized health care program? Sure, drugs are cheaper. But you get whatever doctor is assigned to you rather than who you want, and wait weeks to get an appointment. That's why so many Canadians come to Cleveland for the Cleveland Clinic or University Hospital's superior care. Care like that is not available to the average Canadian. We have some of the best health care in the world, but not necessarily the cheapest. I'd rather pay more for a good doctor than pay less of just anyone who happens to get their license to practice medicine.

                You use that logic with the tools you purchase. Wouldn't you want to do the same with your health?
                Obama is is not seeking socialized healthcare as much as he is seeking insurance regulation, something that would benefit everyone in this country be they rich or poor. The biggest group of criminals in this country are the insurance companies, because they can use this countries laws to legally steal from their customers.

                That being said, I really doubt Obama can ram insurance regulation through congress, the industry has too many lobbyists for that to happen, so I will still probably vote for myself for president.

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                • #68
                  Re: Presidential Election 2008

                  Are there ANY Obama supporters out there? Anyone, anyone, bueller, bueller.....
                  He is leading in the polls currently, but this forum seems to be all republicans!
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                  • #69
                    Re: Presidential Election 2008

                    Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                    Are there ANY Obama supporters out there? Anyone, anyone, bueller, bueller.....
                    He is leading in the polls currently, but this forum seems to be all republicans!
                    I see plenty of Obama stickers in the parking lot where I work, none for McCain.

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                    • #70
                      I've been silently stalking, waiting my chance to wave a finger at service guy for starting this thread and wadaya know...no fighting..l.what the heck is wrong with you guys?!?!
                      This is politics...right??


                      Seriously, I have been incredibly enlightened on a few topics, but in the the end I stand by what I said about campaign promises and proven track records.
                      A man that would refuse to be released from a pow camp unless his brothers went with him is a man that will do what he knows to be right.

                      He may not be an economist, he may not be a rocket scientist, but neither is Obama.

                      For me, take away all the bells, whistles, smoke & mirrors and it boils down to the basic nature of each man.

                      I trust the nature of McCain, I like that nature in a time where the greatest country in the world desperately needs integrity rather than the usual campaign promises.
                      Last edited by DuckButter; 06-23-2008, 10:04 PM.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Presidential Election 2008

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        I've been silently stalking, waiting my chance to wave a finger at service guy for starting this thread and wadaya know...no fighting..l.what the heck is wrong with you guys?!?!
                        This is politics...right??


                        Seriously, I have been incredibly enlightened on a few topics, but in the the end I stand by what I said about campaign promises and proven track records.
                        A man that would refuse to be released from a pow camp unless his brothers went with him is a man that will do what he knows to be right.

                        He may not be an economist, he may not be a rocket scientist, but neither is Obama.

                        For me, take away all the bells, whistles, smoke & mirrors and it boils down to the basic nature of each man.

                        I trust the nature of McCain, I like that nature in a time where the greatest country in the world desperately needs integrity rather than the usual campaign promises.
                        Honest, respectful and to the point. Service Guy is just begging for this to turn nasty or at least find an obama supporter. I've said I would vote for obama over McCain, but I'm not feeling good about any of this. I flat out never cared for republican politics, always seemed anti Union and anti Labor. That's a good thing for you folks who own/run your own businesses, not for an employee or Union person. I want to see our troops the hell out of iraq and I want those people to defend their own country and Pay for it! Why did the trillion dollars come out of our pockets? We have a trade deficit and failing economy and iraq is on the upswing. Back to the candidates, Obama could well be nothing but smoke and mirrors, fearing this to be the case I really don't know if I can vote for the man. Too bad we can't hold these candidates to their campaign promises, put up or get out. Neither will secure our borders and deal with the illegals which sickens me to no end. Not to leave the democrats untouched, they have so far done a lousy job in my opinion and I have no confidence that they will improve anything in the future. I don't want war and I don't want higher taxes. Looks like I don't have a candidate to vote for and I don't have a political party that represents my hopes and wishes for my future and the future of my country. Not much of a support for Obama but it was the best I could offer. I have a bad feeling that both sides somehow wish the other will win just to say I told you so as things get worse. Here's a question to the Forum, so many things got worse under President Bush and without blaming him for all these problems, does anyone really think that Obama or McCain can turn it around?

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                        • #72
                          Re: Presidential Election 2008

                          I am glad I started this thread. There has been no fighting, just minor debating. I have learned some things already, and I'm sure others have too. The more informed we all are, the better for this country we all share.
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                          • #73
                            Re: Presidential Election 2008

                            I am just getting in here to be part of the not fighting. I will not be voting for any candidate because I am a felon.

                            Or a Canadian. Same difference.

                            Even though I have expoused liberal points of view in here and in the real world many times, I have to admit, as I get older I am getting more toward the right. As they say, the youth who does not believe in socialism is without a heart, the elder who does is without a mind.

                            I pay too much taxes, and without representation I might add!

                            I will survive McCain. I will survive Obama. I'm just glad I survived Bush.

                            See? I can do it too. Civil and unconfrontational. (idiots)



                            Eli
                            A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Presidential Election 2008

                              Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                              Personally, I support Obama's plan for a more socialized healthcare system. American healthcare as it stand currently is a giant mess.
                              Think about this. The federal government cant take care of the social security program, how do you expect them to take care of a government healthcare program.

                              Just think what it's like to go to the D.M.V., now imagine those same people "greeting" you at the doctors office or hospital.

                              I can see it now walking into the emergency room" nurse, nurse, help my husband he's having a heart attack", "yeah, Im still on break, Ill be with you shortly"

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                              • #75
                                Re: Presidential Election 2008

                                Originally posted by Killertoiletspider View Post
                                Obama is is not seeking socialized healthcare as much as he is seeking insurance regulation, something that would benefit everyone in this country be they rich or poor. The biggest group of criminals in this country are the insurance companies, because they can use this countries laws to legally steal from their customers.

                                That being said, I really doubt Obama can ram insurance regulation through congress, the industry has too many lobbyists for that to happen, so I will still probably vote for myself for president.
                                I disagree with you about insurance companies stealing from their customers, but do think there are some problems.

                                The two things that annoy me most about healthcare billing:
                                (1) Doctors inflate their prices so the insurance companies can get a discount. This means people without insurance are screwed because they have to pay more than an insurance company would pay.
                                (2) The cost of care is unrelated to what a large segment of the population pays for care. People are very careful when it comes to spending their money, but with most health insurance you have no incentive to spend other people's money wisely.

                                I actually think that one of the problems with the insurance industry is too many parallel regulation systems. Every single state has different regulations for insurance, making it much harder (i.e. more expensive) to comply with them. I would support scrapping the state regulation and regulating at the federal level. Normally, I believe that the states should do more and the feds less; but in this case I think that the interstate commerce clause applies well, so congress wouldn't be overstepping its authority.

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