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McCain for President?

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  • Re: McCain for President?

    Originally Posted by woodenstickers View Post
    Not to be elitist, but for someone who has such strong opinions residency/citizenship you don't know jack about what the process is. But just as I have the right to speak up on issues I can't vote on. you have the right to speak on issues you are ignorant about.

    ~~~I guess I am the ignorant one for fighting for maggots like you that dont appreciate a great country.

    And you know what? Not your house. Sorry you feel that way, but you are a bit over-entitled there. So your hurt feelings are your own problem. If you don't like the fact that I can be here, say whatever I want and can get my citizenship married or not, you should try another country that is more to your liking. Because that is all you can do. That is the only control you have over the situation. You can't tell me what I can and can't criticize, you can't make me leave, and you can't keep me from pointing out things you don't care to acknowledge.

    ~~~My feelings are not hurt Eli you are not that powerful of a person. If you dont like the fact that I have strong feelings about my country too bad for you. Just because you are currently a man without a country doesn't mean I should leave MY HOMELAND.

    Attacking the messenger when you don't like the message is the mark of a person who is beyond their scope in a discussion or argument. It's not the only way you make that clear though. Just the most recent.

    ~~~Who is the one attacking Eli? Me? You think I attacked you because you are only a temporary guest here? Well either become a citzen and make your voice heard or just keep standing in the mountains and talk to your echoes because right now your voice is not heard and does not count, so who is really the ignorant one?

    And BTW, I am not even going to go through the effort to cut and paste what you said about the Canadian military in another thread tonight. If you don't remember that Canada was the first country to join the US politically and militarily after Saddam invaded Kuwait I'll just chalk it up to another piece of history you are blissfully uninformed about.

    ~~~~I am uninformed BUT I am an uninformed American Citizen whos voice actually means something my friend






    Your voice means nothing more than mine, except in the voting booth. Enjoy that right and until then you are only flapping your gums like me. I do have a country. Your opinion of it is irrelevant. Hurry up and put me on your ignore list, or move to China where they can control who says what on the internet. That's more your style.

    Here, where I call home anyone can say anything they like.

    And you did sound like my grandmother when she gets her feelings hurt with the "how dare you?" comment. Sorry I misinterpreted your flustered words there.

    BTW since you don't think that I am part of this country you didn't fight for me, only maggots like me. So try to guilt them into thinking that your close minded and ignorant bluster is respectable. Guess you didn't know you couldn't pick and choose which parts of the constitution you were fighting for before you signed up?

    And lastly, I think you should stop using the word elitist until you look up what it means, because you are applying it incorrectly while acting out the definition in your posts. Kinda makes you look silly.


    Eli
    Last edited by woodenstickers; 08-02-2008, 02:16 AM.
    A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

    Comment


    • Re: McCain for President?

      Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
      Your voice means nothing more than mine, except in the voting booth. Enjoy that right and until then you are only flapping your gums like me. I do have a country. Your opinion of it is irrelevant. Hurry up and put me on your ignore list, or move to China where they can control who says what on the internet. That's more your style.

      Here, where I call home anyone can say anything they like.

      And you did sound like my grandmother when she gets her feelings hurt with the "how dare you?" comment. Sorry I misinterpreted your flustered words there.

      BTW since you don't think that I am part of this country you didn't fight for me, only maggots like me. So try to guilt them into thinking that your close minded and ignorant bluster is respectable. Guess you didn't know you couldn't pick and choose which parts of the constitution you were fighting for before you signed up?

      And lastly, I think you should stop using the word elitist until you look up what it means, because you are applying it incorrectly while acting out the definition in your posts. Kinda makes you look silly.


      Eli

      No guilt, theres tons of them out there just like you Eli.

      Oh by the way look at definition 3.

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elitist

      Comment


      • Re: McCain for President?

        Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
        No guilt, theres tons of them out there just like you Eli.

        Oh by the way look at definition 3.

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elitist


        3: consciousness of being or belonging to an elite


        Would that be like thinking you or your views are better or more important or more respectable because of where you were born? Hmm? Pointing out that you are constantly proving your ignorance does not qualify.

        I'm going to bed. I trust I won't get the benefit of your responses from now on when I post as often as I wish on any topic I see fit in any way that I see fit, because to you my opinion is irrelevant. If you don't put me on ignore then you will see that I will still respond to you as if you were not so un-American in this viewpoint. Because even though I don't respect your willingness to expound on topics you are uninformed about, even though i don't respect your closed mindedness, or apparent pride in remaining ignorant, I honestly can say that there are things about you I do respect. I have defended you before, hell even tonight, because i really do learn from you. I probably would never befriend anyone like you outside of this forum, can't say I'd get the opportunity, but here I honestly hope we can still converse now and then.

        If not I'll still be just fine.

        PS Thanks for lighting a fire under me to complete my citizenship. First thing I am going to try to do is get a law passed so that there is a US history and current events test required to vote. Don't worry, I'll help you study. Or maybe my Canadian-American father or Vietnamese-American fiancee or Mexican-American brother in law who all worked harder to become a citizen than you did will help you out.


        Eli
        Last edited by woodenstickers; 08-02-2008, 02:38 AM.
        A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

        Comment


        • Re: McCain for President?

          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
          Observation...
          Eli reminds me of what I refer to as the "hell no we won't go" genre of the 60's.
          Youthful, idealistic and passionate about beliefs that are often somewhat simplistic...."Make love, not war".

          Take a small fraction of the energy used to debate & confront opinions different from your own and use it to take the citiznship test.

          Then you can vote and not have all that pent up frustration to vent here.
          My frustration is with the system and in these particular conversations how it manipulates reasonable people. I honestly don't think my vote will matter when the candidate is hand picked by lobbyists via vast amounts of money.

          And really, I think there is plenty of frustration voiced here by many people who can and do vote, so kinda lame there Duck. If people want a sounding board where they can repeat pundit propaganda without being asked to qualify it it--with or without youthful exuberance, there are plenty of places for that.

          It's easy to dismiss someone you don't agree with, because I'm a foreigner, because I'm a youthful hippy type. The people doing that are not really offering any counterpoints or information to back up anything I have challenged. Again, pretty lame.

          If I am expected to treat politics like sports talk here then so be it. I'll skip the political threads if we just want majority rules.



          Eli
          A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

          Comment


          • Re: McCain for President?

            Hey fella's, it was me that made the Canada comments on another thread not MP. So really, you should read a bit more carefully just like you should filter the news you believe a bit more carefully. You can't get all your info from CNN or MSNBC, you need to surf around. Listen to the liberal and conservative radio and tv, same for newspaters and the internet. Otherwise you are just getting one side of the story and the press is playing you for a sucker.

            All Politicians are self serving crooks that care more about their own personal power and stature than they do about you. One in ten most likley could tell you the price of a gallon of milk. The rest have no idea and don't care. They are spoiled, pampered ex lawyers for the most part that all belong to the Old Boy network. When you stop to consider the Millions of dollars, thrown away by these fools, just to get elected to office, then you must realize that the system is seriously screwed. These huge expendatures keep ordinary guys out of the system so all that's left is rich businessmen, ex lawyers and guys like Obama that have never had a real job in their entire lives.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • Re: McCain for President?

              [quote=woodenstickers;162374]My frustration is with the system and in these particular conversations how it manipulates reasonable people. I honestly don't think my vote will matter when the candidate is hand picked by lobbyists via vast amounts of money.

              And really, I think there is plenty of frustration voiced here by many people who can and do vote, so kinda lame there Duck. If people want a sounding board where they can repeat pundit propaganda without being asked to qualify it it--with or without youthful exuberance, there are plenty of places for that.

              It's easy to dismiss someone you don't agree with, because I'm a foreigner, because I'm a youthful hippy type. The people doing that are not really offering any counterpoints or information to back up anything I have challenged. Again, pretty lame.

              If I am expected to treat politics like sports talk here then so be it. I'll skip the political threads if we just want majority rules.

              Eli, keep plugging away. I probably won't agree with you all that much but I will read and listen.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • Re: McCain for President?

                [QUOTE=NHMaster3015;162388]
                Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                My frustration is with the system and in these particular conversations how it manipulates reasonable people. I honestly don't think my vote will matter when the candidate is hand picked by lobbyists via vast amounts of money.

                And really, I think there is plenty of frustration voiced here by many people who can and do vote, so kinda lame there Duck. If people want a sounding board where they can repeat pundit propaganda without being asked to qualify it it--with or without youthful exuberance, there are plenty of places for that.

                It's easy to dismiss someone you don't agree with, because I'm a foreigner, because I'm a youthful hippy type. The people doing that are not really offering any counterpoints or information to back up anything I have challenged. Again, pretty lame.

                If I am expected to treat politics like sports talk here then so be it. I'll skip the political threads if we just want majority rules.

                Eli, keep plugging away. I probably won't agree with you all that much but I will read and listen.
                I respect your open minded approach to this whole topic. I usually watch Fox News to get updates on News around the world but they are just as one sided when reporting politics as the liberal networks. I got a kick out of Jesse Ventura speaking to the camera and saying the best Americans are those who speak out when they feel the government is wrong and then went on to say he felt the war was wrong, and all this in the face of shaun hannity who declared those who spoke out as unAmerican and unpatriotic. Guess shaun didn't want to challenge a Navy Seal?

                Comment


                • Re: McCain for President?

                  absoultly correct. Fox news is about as slanted as you can get. Fair and balanced? Then again they call cnn the clinton news network. You have to use a bunch of sources to stay informed and it's a lot of work. I like Hannity. Think he has a good heart and seems like he really cares, but he gets one tracked an awful lot. Limbaugh is and has been the man behind the republican party for years now. I think we need a 3rd party. The party of common sense. But that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • Re: McCain for President?

                    Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                    My frustration is with the system and in these particular conversations how it manipulates reasonable people. I honestly don't think my vote will matter when the candidate is hand picked by lobbyists via vast amounts of money.

                    And really, I think there is plenty of frustration voiced here by many people who can and do vote, so kinda lame there Duck. If people want a sounding board where they can repeat pundit propaganda without being asked to qualify it it--with or without youthful exuberance, there are plenty of places for that.

                    It's easy to dismiss someone you don't agree with, because I'm a foreigner, because I'm a youthful hippy type. The people doing that are not really offering any counterpoints or information to back up anything I have challenged. Again, pretty lame.

                    If I am expected to treat politics like sports talk here then so be it. I'll skip the political threads if we just want majority rules.



                    Eli
                    Absolutely NOT my point.
                    Get your citizenship, VOTE!
                    Until then, you might as well be talking about the baseball game last night.

                    I have quietly read many of your posts...it occurs to me that you seem to formulate an opinion and then stand by it regardless what anyone says...atop that you seem to take disagreement personal.
                    (granted MP can get personal at times )

                    What I think you might try to do is consider arguments that differ from yours, there's always a reason an opinion is different, there's always something to learn in those differences.

                    I have to admit, there have been one or two eye openers for me about Obama on this forum...it hasn't changed my mind about McCain, but I have listened to other thoughts.

                    My observation is that you seem stuck in your ideals and then spend an immense amount of time defending them, rather than considering alternative idea's.

                    Comment


                    • Re: McCain for President?

                      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                      Absolutely NOT my point.
                      Get your citizenship, VOTE!
                      Until then, you might as well be talking about the baseball game last night.

                      I have quietly read many of your posts...it occurs to me that you seem to formulate an opinion and then stand by it regardless what anyone says...atop that you seem to take disagreement personal.
                      (granted MP can get personal at times )

                      What I think you might try to do is consider arguments that differ from yours, there's always a reason an opinion is different, there's always something to learn in those differences.

                      I have to admit, there have been one or two eye openers for me about Obama on this forum...it hasn't changed my mind about McCain, but I have listened to other thoughts.

                      My observation is that you seem stuck in your ideals and then spend an immense amount of time defending them, rather than considering alternative idea's.
                      I'll take that into consideration, because it is not my intent.
                      I learn a lot here. One of the lessons I picked up[ from this thread, and is even more driven home by what you have observed of my posts, is that I need to realize that just because someone says one or two things in a post it doesn't necessarily represent their entire point of view or mean that their whole view is as simple it to that one or two points. I get long winded as can be on here and the urgency in the words comes from not being able to address enough about a complex issue. I need to understand that it is a limiting media for everybody.

                      I have immense respect for Mark a long with most others here, and what flippoed me out is that I KNOW he is a thoughtful person and all I kept seeing was that the libs got us in this mess by blocking drilling, we need to drill problem solved. Well that is obviously not his entire point of view, but lets be honest here, there are a lot of people, pundits and just political one uppers who are trying to draw even deeper party lines rather than try to get anything done. This goes for the Dems as much and some cases more. I have been hearing the same sort of "nothing" from the right as I have from Obama and that is why reading Marks posts hit a real nerve with me. It upset me not because of what he was saying, but because it sounded like he was joining that same chorus of voices for the same reasons. From him, especially, I felt let down.

                      Now I can see that it was my interpretation and I was too quick to react. Reactionary is something I try not to be, but I lose that battle every now and then.

                      Anyway, that is when I got personal. I really did take it personally a little, because my high expectations were not being met in a short forum post. I really do take full responsibility for that mistake. I'm sorry to Mark and others that I may have stepped over the line with.

                      As for MP, well I feel like he and I have a special kind of relationship. I'll get down and dirty with him and not feel scathed. I hope it is the same for him. We get down in the muck where he is comfortable and because of this he had the advantage I get the feeling that we both leave with no respect won or lost, and there are a lot of things I respect him for. It's me being hypocritical and engaging in one-upsmanship that does nothing and serves no good purpose.

                      But really Duck, if you talked to some of my true liberal friends and family you may hear similar tales from the other side. (yes I'm a blast at parties). I do listen to talk radio from the right like Micheal Savage and Armstrong and Getty (a little more moderate, but definitely not liberal) as well as a lot of NPR. I hate fox and CNN and MSNBC. Once they started covering celebrity funerals like they were national disasters I vowed never to give them the time of day again. I hate Limbaugh and Rosie O'donald. I am bored of the dailyshow now because the one joke is old and stale--politicians are ridiculous liars and we let them get away with it.

                      And to MP and NH, I truly am sorry I mixed you two up. I don't know which one of you to feel more embarrassed for!!


                      Eli
                      Last edited by woodenstickers; 08-02-2008, 02:25 PM.
                      A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                      Comment


                      • Re: McCain for President?

                        Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                        3: consciousness of being or belonging to an elite


                        Would that be like thinking you or your views are better or more important or more respectable because of where you were born? Hmm? Pointing out that you are constantly proving your ignorance does not qualify.

                        I don't even want to go back and count the amount of times you have called me ignorant and whatever because it doesn't really matter, but to keep belittling someone because of their views is what makes someone an elitist. Which by the way your argument was that I was using it out of context, which when I showed you the definition you no longer wanted that argument and turned it around as I was being the elitist, again thats spin.

                        I'm going to bed. I trust I won't get the benefit of your responses from now on when I post as often as I wish on any topic I see fit in any way that I see fit, because to you my opinion is irrelevant. If you don't put me on ignore then you will see that I will still respond to you as if you were not so un-American in this viewpoint. Because even though I don't respect your willingness to expound on topics you are uninformed about, even though i don't respect your closed mindedness, or apparent pride in remaining ignorant, I honestly can say that there are things about you I do respect. I have defended you before, hell even tonight, because i really do learn from you. I probably would never befriend anyone like you outside of this forum, can't say I'd get the opportunity, but here I honestly hope we can still converse now and then.

                        Uh, as if you can't tell I like to debate just as muh as the next guy, I'm not some little p***y who is going to put you on some ignore list because you dont have the same views as me. I get along with most of the guys here regardless of their political misgivings . I enjoy my time here on the Ridgid forum, but do you think for 1 second if I get into a spat with someone it alters my life in any way? I have a family, a mortgage payment, 3 car payments, a van payment, life insursance, private school tuition, GAS BILLS, HEAT AND HOT WATER bills etc etc etc, that is what matters in life not what someone from across the country says about me, what their political views are or what their ctizenship status is. Maybe I should not have gone there, but it is who I am. I am not some xenophobe, just someone who loves this country and is proud of our history, the good and the bad, and if I show it in a different way then you...so be it, I will not apologize for being me.

                        I am not close minded, I am just very strongly opinionated. As you say you have defened me, I have also defended you as well, several times. I would not befriend you over last night and I doubt you would either. I still look foward to getting in it with you as that is who I am.

                        If not I'll still be just fine.

                        PS Thanks for lighting a fire under me to complete my citizenship. First thing I am going to try to do is get a law passed so that there is a US history and current events test required to vote. Don't worry, I'll help you study. Or maybe my Canadian-American father or Vietnamese-American fiancee or Mexican-American brother in law who all worked harder to become a citizen than you did will help you out.

                        What makes you think that I dont know my country's history Eli? Yes I had the god given benefit of being born here, but don't for one second think that I take it for granted or that your family is better then me because they had to take a test or something. My family came here 3 generations before me, and they did what they had to do to become citizens, they suffered through many of the same plights that todays Mexican/American immigrants struggle with, they earned their citizenship with blood and sweat so I wouldnt have to. So get off your high horse about how I had the privilidge of being born here because my ancesters suffered so I wouldn't have to.


                        Eli

                        Comment


                        • Re: McCain for President?

                          " I have a family, a mortgage payment, 3 car payments, a van payment, life insursance, private school tuition, GAS BILLS, HEAT AND HOT WATER bills etc etc etc, that is what matters in life not what someone from across the country says about me, what their political views are or what their ctizenship status is. Maybe I should not have gone there, but it is who I am. I am not some xenophobe, just someone who loves this country and is proud of our history, the good and the bad, and if I show it in a different way then you...so be it, I will not apologize for being me."

                          Wow, you're doing okay in this country! Well it looks as though the folks with money will be paying more to take care of those who are having a tough time, so how about getting rid of a couple of them car payments and adopting a nice older man from CT? You get a small tax write off and this way you choose who benefits from all that hard work, not the government. I think part of the upset here is the distance and way we are communicating. If we were talking in person I'm sure things would not get so heated. Gosh, it would be so great if we could just hug.

                          Comment


                          • Re: McCain for President?

                            Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post

                            don't even want to go back and count the amount of times you have called me ignorant and whatever because it doesn't really matter, but to keep belittling someone because of their views is what makes someone an elitist. Which by the way your argument was that I was using it out of context, which when I showed you the definition you no longer wanted that argument and turned it around as I was being the elitist, again thats spin.


                            The word ignorant is not an insult. I am ignorant of many many things. I have only called you ignorant on subject that you have strong opinions on and clearly do not know the facts about--ie me needing to marry into citizenship. I am not belittling you because of your views, but the lack of knowledge you use to back them up. That does not fall under the definition of elitist. That would be something you are ignorant about. However, claiming more right to speak your mind because of where you were born or your citizenship status clearly is elitist.

                            Uh, as if you can't tell I like to debate just as muh as the next guy, I'm not some little p***y who is going to put you on some ignore list because you dont have the same views as me.

                            When you state your point of view being that not only do you not want to listen to, but in your opinion I am wrong to think my voice counts in a political conversation because of my citizenship, what else would I think but that you are planning to ignore me in the future? I have been dismissed from your consideration. Why would you read what I have to say until I get the paperwork completed?

                            I enjoy my time here on the Ridgid forum, but do you think for 1 second if I get into a spat with someone it alters my life in any way? I have a family, a mortgage payment, 3 car payments, a van payment, life insursance, private school tuition, GAS BILLS, HEAT AND HOT WATER bills etc etc etc, that is what matters in life not what someone from across the country says about me, what their political views are or what their ctizenship status is.


                            Obviously. But when you pull out the "how dare you?" card as if you are offended by having your own words repeated back to you, in this case an invitation to leave the country if you don't like the rules, you are not only acting elitist--like you are above your own attacks based on who your are--but worthy of making fun of for acting like your sensibilities have been bruised. Do I think your feelings were really hurt? No. Do I think you are a dork for pretending they were? Yes.

                            What makes you think that I dont know my country's history Eli? Yes I had the god given benefit of being born here, but don't for one second think that I take it for granted or that your family is better then me because they had to take a test or something. My family came here 3 generations before me, and they did what they had to do to become citizens, they suffered through many of the same plights that todays Mexican/American immigrants struggle with, they earned their citizenship with blood and sweat so I wouldnt have to. So get off your high horse about how I had the privilidge of being born here because my ancesters suffered so I wouldn't have to.


                            Yeah, it sucks when someone insinuates that your citizenship status or how it was achieved is relevant in the worth of your opinions. Guess I made my point though, you didn't have to do anything for your citizenship so with me it does nothing to shore up your opinions over mine. Except in 2 places, and only those two--the ballot and jury duty. Both of those are secret and personal, so as far as in public we both have the same rights.

                            BTW I don't think my family is better than you, but I would bet bank vs bank they know more about what becoming a citizen entails and what privileges it allows. But they are not here trying to lord it over someone and implying that they have more rights in cases where they don't. You are. They are better at that then you are.



                            Eli
                            A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                            Comment


                            • Re: McCain for President?

                              Eli,
                              There is more to this Citizenship thing than taking a test. There is maintenance. So instead of wasting your time trying to get a history and current events law passed, which the liberals would never allow, I would submit that a law that requires every new citizen, physically able, to join the military is in order. That would be proof of, "I Pledge Allegiance..." Think of the repercussions: Financial aid for housing and education to say nothing of free medical care for life.

                              -Tom

                              P.S. I don't think I will need any help from your relatives studying either since I was a 3.75 at the end of undergraduate school and 4.0 at the end of graduate school.

                              Comment


                              • Re: McCain for President?

                                Originally posted by Tom W View Post
                                Eli,
                                There is more to this Citizenship thing than taking a test. There is maintenance. So instead of wasting your time trying to get a history and current events law passed, which the liberals would never allow, I would submit that a law that requires every new citizen, physically able, to join the military is in order. That would be proof of, "I Pledge Allegiance..." Think of the repercussions: Financial aid for housing and education to say nothing of free medical care for life.

                                -Tom

                                P.S. I don't think I will need any help from your relatives studying either since I was a 3.75 at the end of undergraduate school and 4.0 at the end of graduate school.
                                Really? More? I'll have to rethink it.

                                That was sarcasm, as was the idea of a current events history test. That was not part of the blueprint to this country and would be way too corruptible to be practical. To explain it simply I took issue with MP claiming I had less right to an opinion in the US when the laws here specifically protect my right to an opinion. It was not an attack on you or anyone else--not even MP. Sorry if you thought that I really look down on anyone who was born into their citizenship. I don't. I just don't look up to them for that feat either and find it repugnant if they do hold it as a personal accomplishment or claim that it makes them elite.

                                If every new citizen would be required to join the military, why would those born here be given a free pass in your plan? It is an interesting idea, but why why wouldn't everyone be required to maintain their citizenship? I'm not a big fan of birthrights. Entitlement is entitlement in my view. Like I said earlier, I registered with selective services when I turned 18 like everyone else.

                                That is truly impressive to get such a high GPA. It shows that you not only work hard and have discipline and a good mind, but care about what you are doing as well. I respect that more than anything and to me that is what the American way should be. In my naive idealism that's what I wish to be our culture again. Entitlements, be they corporate welfare, frivolous lawsuits, pork, or hand outs for folks who don't want to work are all the same to me. Wrong and the downfall of this society--if not the country.

                                Eli
                                A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                                Comment

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