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  • Re: McCain for President?

    You know what I love about these arguments. Reguardless of your point of view it stirs you up. Makes you think, Gets you upset, even mad. At least you are all involving yourselves in the process. Right or wrong you all give a crap. And most people in this country don't. Most will sit on their ***'s watching baseball, drinking beer and eating chips. They don't know, and don't want to know. It's too much effort to pay attention.
    Bless each and every one of you combatents, at least you care.

    Hope the spelling was ok, but I get a pass now due to the disclaimer.
    sigpic

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    • Re: McCain for President?

      One last thing, this elitist thing is bunk. I am uneducated and have been a blue collar worker my entire life. I was a commercial fisherman working 18-20hr day for 21 days on/one day off. I have dug footings for weeks. Moved 4 tons of gravel by shovel and wheelbarrow in single days by myself for nearly minimum wage. Never been on welfare, never even got a student loan or grant. I paid into all of those entitlement programs since I was 17 years old and out on my own.

      I don't care if you haven't graduated highschool, I know that doesn't mean you are not just as smart or even knowledgeable as the next guy, and I certainly don't hold myself high up on that ladder. If you say something that is BS in my estimation I will speak up, because that is the way I came up in the trades. If you show me how I am wrong or back up what you have said I will accept it--I am wrong as much as anyone--maybe more because i try to stay informed on many, many things. If my writing is too flowery or you don't like that I am wearing specs and a tie at a wedding in my avatar so you want to peg me as an elitist. Pffft. You want to pretend I think I am above you you can kiss my a$$. I don't expect anyone else to apologize for the who they are, I sure won't.

      I was ignorant when I called Mark out for being simple in his thoughts on drilling. I still want to hear more, the important part like how drilling will help the people, but I'll wait for it instead of assume he has no answer.

      I was ignorant to say all MP did for this country was get born here--it was presumptuous and made me look as foolish as I was acting. I'm sorry for that, but stand firmly behind the point I was trying to make.

      I have never had a problem taking responsibility for my mistakes--mistakes are one of the best opportunity in life to be able to learn and grow. I'll make many more and I'm not scared or ashamed of that. Anyone who doesn't want to be challenged about their beliefs should not talk to me about politics because it will happen. That is how I challenge myself as well.

      Meanwhile, any attempts dto dismiss me by labeling me anything are going to fall flat. Go ahead and show me how I'm wrong. My main points--even the simple and broad ones go unanswered all the time. I don't take that as a victory because either people don't know why they think I'm wrong or don't care to put the effort into telling me. The latter is more upsetting than the former.

      I don't get a chance to rail against Pelosi, Reed and even Gavin Newsome on this forum, but believe me, I hold them in no higher regard than I do Bush and Co.. McCain, a little bit more respect--but disappearing every day. Obama, not enough substance to "really" judge him. That is different than saying he has no platform, because he does. Will he stand by the parts I like or (hopefully) let go of the parts that seem misguided--time will tell. I understand Obama's appeal though, he at least doesn't talk to me/the public like I'm a moron, and that is refreshing. A better liar or something more than that? Again, time will tell.

      It seems like the entire election process is two parties choosing whoever they think can make it through the gauntlet of the primaries without saying something irrelevant and "offensive" that will get attacked and make them lose. It is laughable. I am completely disgusted with all of it. If there was anything I REALLY would want to convince people of it is that they are perpetuating this whenever they let the BS penetrate, give their "team" a free pass, repeat the party line without looking into it or even just accept it quietly. No, I can't vote, but I am just as affected by it.



      Eli
      A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

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      • Re: McCain for President?

        FEEL THE EXCITEMENT!

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        • Re: McCain for President?

          Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
          FEEL THE EXCITEMENT!

          Okay, when I woke up in front of the computer screen and saw this picture I thought it was in bad taste. We get sleepy when we get older, I gotta take a nap.
          Last edited by Frankiarmz; 08-02-2008, 05:11 PM. Reason: sp

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          • Re: McCain for President?

            Eli,
            In my plan, facetious and idealistic as it was, everyone should do some sort of community service, not just new citizens. But, as you have implied in past posts, there are limitations that inher to posting on these forms. To write a seemingly non-ending tome and explain everything in excrutiating detail is almost impossible.

            In another life I worked for two years in an immigrant resettlement program that was country specific. An interesting result of a study that was done to assess the efficacy of the program was that the women took any jobs that were available, nurses aids, housecleaning services etc. The men on the other hand were an entirely different story. They would only work jobs that paid under the table - didn't want to loose the welfare checks. If someone hid their welfare checks under their workboots they would starve to death.

            When I was in high school we were taught that europeans came to this country thinking the streets were paved with gold. Well, as far as I am concerned they still are. The problem is that a lot of immigrants are too lazy to bend over and pick it up. A great number of posters on this site are self employed and you seem to be giving it consideration. These guys bust their tomatoes every day crawling around stinky drains only to go home and work on the required book keeping chores. They are making a contribution to society. That is bending over and picking up the gold.

            To have undocumented aliens/illegal immigants, call them what you will, receiving free medical care and the rest, sticks in a lot of people's craw. What contribution have these people made to society and why should they receive benefits paid for with tax dollars is a common question, and I often agree. Why should they have a voice in what is accorded to them? I have enough Libertarian leanings, although I am decidedly Republican, that it is the law and so I will comply. But I often don't like it.

            I think it was last weekend that you were headed to your fiance's parents to ask for permission to marry. If you posted the result I missed it. How did it go?

            -Tom

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            • Re: McCain for President?

              I am trying to inject some humor into this thread. Albeit tasteless.



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              • Re: McCain for President?

                Photo shop is such fun
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                • Re: McCain for President?

                  Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                  don't even want to go back and count the amount of times you have called me ignorant and whatever because it doesn't really matter, but to keep belittling someone because of their views is what makes someone an elitist. Which by the way your argument was that I was using it out of context, which when I showed you the definition you no longer wanted that argument and turned it around as I was being the elitist, again thats spin.


                  The word ignorant is not an insult. I am ignorant of many many things. I have only called you ignorant on subject that you have strong opinions on and clearly do not know the facts about--ie me needing to marry into citizenship. I am not belittling you because of your views, but the lack of knowledge you use to back them up. That does not fall under the definition of elitist. That would be something you are ignorant about. However, claiming more right to speak your mind because of where you were born or your citizenship status clearly is elitist.

                  Uh, as if you can't tell I like to debate just as muh as the next guy, I'm not some little p***y who is going to put you on some ignore list because you dont have the same views as me.

                  When you state your point of view being that not only do you not want to listen to, but in your opinion I am wrong to think my voice counts in a political conversation because of my citizenship, what else would I think but that you are planning to ignore me in the future? I have been dismissed from your consideration. Why would you read what I have to say until I get the paperwork completed?

                  I enjoy my time here on the Ridgid forum, but do you think for 1 second if I get into a spat with someone it alters my life in any way? I have a family, a mortgage payment, 3 car payments, a van payment, life insursance, private school tuition, GAS BILLS, HEAT AND HOT WATER bills etc etc etc, that is what matters in life not what someone from across the country says about me, what their political views are or what their ctizenship status is.


                  Obviously. But when you pull out the "how dare you?" card as if you are offended by having your own words repeated back to you, in this case an invitation to leave the country if you don't like the rules, you are not only acting elitist--like you are above your own attacks based on who your are--but worthy of making fun of for acting like your sensibilities have been bruised. Do I think your feelings were really hurt? No. Do I think you are a dork for pretending they were? Yes.

                  What makes you think that I dont know my country's history Eli? Yes I had the god given benefit of being born here, but don't for one second think that I take it for granted or that your family is better then me because they had to take a test or something. My family came here 3 generations before me, and they did what they had to do to become citizens, they suffered through many of the same plights that todays Mexican/American immigrants struggle with, they earned their citizenship with blood and sweat so I wouldnt have to. So get off your high horse about how I had the privilidge of being born here because my ancesters suffered so I wouldn't have to.


                  Yeah, it sucks when someone insinuates that your citizenship status or how it was achieved is relevant in the worth of your opinions. Guess I made my point though, you didn't have to do anything for your citizenship so with me it does nothing to shore up your opinions over mine. Except in 2 places, and only those two--the ballot and jury duty. Both of those are secret and personal, so as far as in public we both have the same rights.

                  BTW I don't think my family is better than you, but I would bet bank vs bank they know more about what becoming a citizen entails and what privileges it allows. But they are not here trying to lord it over someone and implying that they have more rights in cases where they don't. You are. They are better at that then you are.


                  Eli
                  You know Eli, my original question about you being a resident/citizen was a serious question to you, I was asking an honest question because of your strong views. I guess I hit a nerve when I asked your status. I really wish more citizens would take an active interest in politics, I think the lack of caring is the reason that politicians are who they are.

                  My "how dare you comment" was not for shock value, here you are wanting to become a citizen or wanting to stay here and work whatever your desires are, and you are criticizing my service or lack there of to my country. That really does take nerve. It's not that you offended me but you offended swarms of others who have served this country. I guess the internet is not a great way to show feeling or lack there of.

                  Go commit a crime and then lets see if we have the same rights. Well then again in S.F. you have a sanctuary city.

                  Im glad your family knows this or that. Im glad you are on your way to being a citizen. Im glad that I am able to debate this with you.

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                  • Re: McCain for President?

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    " I have a family, a mortgage payment, 3 car payments, a van payment, life insursance, private school tuition, GAS BILLS, HEAT AND HOT WATER bills etc etc etc, that is what matters in life not what someone from across the country says about me, what their political views are or what their ctizenship status is. Maybe I should not have gone there, but it is who I am. I am not some xenophobe, just someone who loves this country and is proud of our history, the good and the bad, and if I show it in a different way then you...so be it, I will not apologize for being me."

                    Wow, you're doing okay in this country! Well it looks as though the folks with money will be paying more to take care of those who are having a tough time, so how about getting rid of a couple of them car payments and adopting a nice older man from CT? You get a small tax write off and this way you choose who benefits from all that hard work, not the government. I think part of the upset here is the distance and way we are communicating. If we were talking in person I'm sure things would not get so heated. Gosh, it would be so great if we could just hug.
                    Why thank you Franki I am doing ok right now. We all know how that can change in a heartbeat. I thank god everynight for the ability to be in a position I am in. I like my cars and will not give them up. I have 3 children already and dont need another one,no thanks. I agree if this was face to face, I would not have wasted at least 3 hours of my life.

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                    • Re: McCain for President?

                      Originally posted by Tom W View Post
                      Eli,
                      If someone hid their welfare checks under their workboots they would starve to death.

                      -Tom
                      CLASSIC!

                      I'm with you on a lot of that. I grew up in SFO and there were 4 pages of Wongs in my yearbook. I have enjoyed the benefits of being in a multicultural city and country--much of the reason I opted to stay here instead of move back to Canada.

                      What you are saying is true. I would like to submit, however, that in my experience it is not rule. My gals folks (they said yes BTW, thanks for asking!) came here in '92, her Dad was in a communist re-education camp and nearly was crippled after the war in Vietnam. Since they arrived without a dime they have bought, paid to remodel and landscape their own house with very little left to pay on the loan. Her parents both came from very well off families in Vietnam-her Grandfather was the personal doctor of the last king there. All of that was taken by the communists. Now her father-age 61-gets up at 6 to do landscaping work 6 days a week. Her mother, a bit younger, gets up at 4 to work as a cook on a lunch wagon. No welfare as far as I know, her brother is in the Navy and her and her sister worked their way through college or are doing so now.

                      On the other hand, many of my very good American born friends went to school on MY dime, stretched it out over 10 years, still drove cars and went out and bought computers with grant and low interest loan money while myself and my gal's family and probably you as well footed their obligations to society. I recently heard about how many kids at Stanford and other Ivy league colleges drive around in luxury cars while getting a full ride (non-earned scholarship)because the lawschool there has a tradition of teaching the incoming class how to work the system.

                      I think your point about immigrants of the past coming here to work dovetails with my view of this society as a whole now. What the culture here used to be is working hard and getting ahead--that was the opportunity presented. Now the opportunity folks look for is the opportunity to sue, or work the system, or get anything for nothing. From the top on down, mortgage brokers to welfare baby factories. And yes, the no bid contracts too.

                      Eli
                      Last edited by woodenstickers; 08-02-2008, 05:43 PM.
                      A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

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                      • Re: McCain for President?

                        Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                        You know Eli, my original question about you being a resident/citizen was a serious question to you, I was asking an honest question because of your strong views. I guess I hit a nerve when I asked your status. I really wish more citizens would take an active interest in politics, I think the lack of caring is the reason that politicians are who they are.

                        You didn't hit a nerve, I honestly was surprised I didn't get this earlier from you. I have said I am Canadian many times on this forum and honestly was waiting to get the same treatment you give others not from this country. Yesterday was the day. I respect your right to an opinion, not nessesarily the opinion you give.

                        My "how dare you comment" was not for shock value, here you are wanting to become a citizen or wanting to stay here and work whatever your desires are, and you are criticizing my service or lack there of to my country. That really does take nerve. It's not that you offended me but you offended swarms of others who have served this country. I guess the internet is not a great way to show feeling or lack there of.

                        Sorry. That is not when or how you said it. It was in response to me inviting you to leave because you didn't like that I have the right to voice my opinion. It was the exact same thing you did to me since I don't like everything about this government. You think because you were born here you are exempt from that, I don't. I did not say anything to disparage the swarms of others who have served, and I think many of them would get my point.

                        Go commit a crime and then lets see if we have the same rights. Well then again in S.F. you have a sanctuary city.

                        This is true, as well as you being able to voluntarily join the armed forces, you being allowed to legally own a gun and run for office, become a police officer, hold certain government jobs. What I said was that we both have the same rights to voice our opinions and they count just the same except when you vote or serve on a jury.

                        Im glad your family knows this or that. Im glad you are on your way to being a citizen. Im glad that I am able to debate this with you.

                        Hey. like I said before, I am glad I get the opportunity to clash with you. We both indulge in a lot of BS in our exchanges, much like the politicians we are discussing. I find it all in fun. I'm sure if we were friends in real life we'd both feel confident that we could trust and depend on the other when we needed to. At least until you heard me say "what are you talking aboot?"


                        Eli
                        A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

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                        • Re: McCain for President?

                          Fugghedaboudit

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                          • Re: McCain for President?

                            Eli...I would be very happy to hear you get your citizenship.
                            Just wait till AFTER the election...mmmmkay?

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                            • Re: McCain for President?

                              Hey Master, Now that the sox have cut out the cancer the patient will fully recover and kick the Yankees collective asses.

                              This thread has lost it's fun, time to start a new argument. What can we fight over next? How about scientology?

                              And remember Tinmack I have the spelling immunity amulet
                              sigpic

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                              • Re: McCain for President?

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                Hey Master, Now that the sox have cut out the cancer the patient will fully recover and kick the Yankees collective asses.

                                This thread has lost it's fun, time to start a new argument. What can we fight over next? How about scientology?

                                And remember Tinmack I have the spelling immunity amulet
                                Oh why dont you root for your home team............Oh wait New Hampshire doesn't have one

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