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  • #61
    Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

    You all that know me, know that I am an upfront, flatrate business plumber. However I believe in fair, upfront, honest business, the kind of business that builds referrals and repeat customers! Just because I (and many other members here) use flatrate for services, that doesn't mean I agree with the big companies that only care about getting the next sucker and then moving on...not at all. I just want to say that all flat-rate isn't bad, its just that some companies chose to use it in a deceptive way. I agree with ToUtah about being upfront with people.
    Anyway, as Masterplumb said,
    Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
    How can you be so sure about his true numbers? What works for plumber rick or myself does not mean it would work for everyone else and that is what started this whole thing. Bestline3 was trying to jam his business model down everyone elses throat.
    I respect his business model if it truly works for him, it certainly wouldn't work for me and I don't want to run that particular model of business, so I will do it my own way and find success my own way....just like so many of us here are doing already in our lives...
    Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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    • #62
      Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

      I love it when you talk dirty to me! What movie was that in. Deep Throat? It wasn't a business model I was thinking about shoving and I am afraid of height.

      You don't read good. If you are charging your customer time and materials for contract work like installing copper pipes, installing new drain pipes, and installing a new sewer, then you are really stupid and you are a liar. You know absolutely nothing about me nor about my business. What you are is, obvious, by what you say.

      If you have an hourly price for service calls and you also quote customers a contract price for a job, then you have to have some type of hourly price you base the contract price on and it is not going to be a measley $65 an hour. No professional plumber works for $65, $75, or $95 an hour for contract work. So, I am a filthy slime bag because I have the balls to say I think $280 to $340 is the average price that should be charged. I think gas should still be $2.00 a gallon. So, we can call the oil companies filthy slime bags. The bushel of corn went from $2.50/bushell to $8.00. So, the farmers are filthy slime bags. Copper pipe 1 inch went from $1.40 to almost $5 per foot so the pipe companies are filthy slime bags. You are a filthy slime bag for calling me a filthy slime bag, you brainless slime bag.

      I sell my one-bath drain jobs for $5,000 like they are coffee and donuts. I bid against low-priced ignorant fools like you and I still get the job.

      These jobs take 2 people 6 for a plumber and helper. I pay about $300 for materials, $550 for labor and $240 for plaster. I'm bidding many of these jobs 'Fool'! Do you know what that means? The customer is getting pricese.
      How the ....... can I be ripping the customer off? I give all my customers an Original Owner Lifetime Guarantee. How can I be doing shoddy work and giving this guarantee. Fool?

      Stop lying or come and do some of my jobs for your price.

      You don't know crap about me. Just about every plumber bad mouths every other plumber. How the f..... would you know anything about me or what kind of person I am. You come over to my place 15523 S. Vermont Ave., Gardena, Ca. 90247, anytime you want. Trash mouth! You wouldn't make a pimple on a plumber's butt. Instead of shoving the business model I think I'll use my plumber. No! My sewer machine cable.

      If you don't charge contract prices then you are not a contractor. Get It? Contractors charge contractors. Fools do copper repipes and large jobs by the hour.

      Go ahead, Make My Day (this one is easy Clint Eastwood), talk dirty to me some more.

      Sorry! Had a bad hair moment. There are a lot of respectful members. Nobody should say bad things about a person or company. Especially, when you don't know crap about the person or company. You can bash what I post to death or skip any posts I write. You have no write to judge my character nor my business without knowing diddly about either. And you can talk crap about me too. I can't stop you and it really doesn't bother me. It is just ignorant and disrespectful. I have never been blatantly disrespectful to a member.


      Jack

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      • #63
        How Do You Know Every Company's Motive

        What makes many people, not all, so damn positive that you know what every company's motive.

        I know thousands of plumbers. Why is it, time a plumber opens his mouth, he badmouths another plumber.

        Read the recent posts if the forum. Almost every plumber always has to throw in a few words to let you know that he is honest and I am a filthy slime bag. Again, this is in almost every post.

        I was at a plumbing seminar in Las Vegas. I was sitting at a round table and a plumber asked me whether or not I did repair or new construction. He ansered, "I do new construction. I don't like to rip people off." Who was talking about ripping people off? Why was it on the tip of his tounge.

        Look at the ignorant ads that even the large companies do. Mo's plumbing has a spot on the radio today. It said something like, "Most plumbers charge a flat-rate price and they charge you pay for hours they don't work. But, not at Moe's Plumbing. We charge a low hourly price and if you call now we will even give you a 15% discount. Just call 1-888-640-plumber.

        Yeah! call this fool and see for yourself. The a.....ho..... has to start his commercial by bad mouth plumbing.

        Look at Jimmy West Plumbing yellow page ads in Los Angeles. This a.....ho has full page ads that say, "Other plumbers charge whatever they feel like, but not at Jimmy West Plumbing. We charge ......... Other plumbers bring dirt into your house from other customers. But, not at Jimmy West Plumbing. We change our uniforms before every job.

        What buttholes! Why do they have to make themselves look better by badmoutinh other plumber. Not you have the smell good plumbers Mike Diamond. This paints a bad picture on the plumbing industry. I never, in my life heard trades badmouthing their own trades in any type of advertising.

        I may be the biggest crook in the world, but there is not one person in this forum that knows anything about me, unless you worked for me. Of course, you hear a lot of bad things about my company because plumbers don't know how to keep their mouth shut when they know nothing.

        This is the most popular sales techniques for plumbers. Just badmouth every plumber so the customer is supposed to think you are better, do a shoddy job to keep the price low so that you can get the job.

        If you big mouth liars are lying to me and the forum, then you also lie to your customers. This dishonesty crap has to be on the tip of your fowl mouth because you are dishonest.

        Meet me at my place, your place, or in the middle and tell me I am a scumbag to my face. You keep up your crap about dishonesty you had better not have any skeletons in your closet because I'll post every public record from the day your were born, through your incarcerations, until today. Try me! Anybody who talks trash mouth like this has to have a record for drugs, alcohol abuse, wife beating, dishonorable discharge, fraud, rape, or something you don't want the forum to know about.

        Jack

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          CPW, Eastchester is made up of more than just wealthy folks there are plenty who are holding on by the skin of their teeth in this economy not to mention those on fixed incomes. Let's examine the example you gave for a toilet install, unless there's a crew of volunteers picking up the new toilet and disposing of the old one that job will take a heck of a lot longer than one hour. At $300 an hour maybe you could get away with four hours, how does twelve hundered for a toilet sound?
          Franki,

          If he charged $1200 for the owner-supplied toilet no one would pay it, at least no one who was cost sensitive.

          In a customers house, with a customer supplied toilet I wouldn't expect it to take him just a bit over an hour. That doesn't mean it won't take him another hour to dispose of the toilet, get to the house etc. So he might make $300/hr while at your house, but when you consider everything else it could be half of that.

          The rate that Leonard is quoting is per hour that his plumbers are at someones house, not the rate they expect to earn all day. Since he is bragging about doing lots of repipe jobs that take 2 guys six hours, and his numbers seem to be for his whole business, that he should be able to get more than 4 hours average out of them to spread around his fixed expensies.

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          The rates are out of line and unreasonable for most homeowners in my opinion. If I'm correct and the economy gets worse, don't expect most people to pay more for repairs.
          I think the important thing isn't what the most expensive plumber chrages, but what the average or low-end charges. That will set the price that you *have to pay* to get a pro to do it. Keep in mind, you also have the option of doing some things yourself if you don't want to pay for it [although there are obviously some things that would be stupid to do yourself].

          Regarding not everyone in Eastchester being rich and having a mansion, we look at it from two opposite ends of the spectrum. You look at with sympathy for others on a fixed income. I look at it from the perspective of someone who wants a single family detached home, my wife and I both work and together make more than the median income for the county/town, and yet when we were looking for houses, we could input the top end of our budget into a search and find no listings because they were all higher than that. Thus if you look at it from that perspective, if you choose to live there you are (or at least 2 years ago) were sitting on a pile of cash, so at least to us it seems they are pretty well off. It is kind of like on a highway. Everyone going slower than you is a moron; and everyone going faster than you is a maniac.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

            Quotes by bestline, "I bid against low-priced ignorant fools like you and I still get the job, " Scumbags don't get this far in life". From reading your posts "I'd say you disproved the latter theory. I also think you are full of crap to think the real Plumbers and real Customers who read and post here believe what you consider a business model. You mentioned the inflated prices of some things such as gasoline and copper to justify your crazy rates, if you are working inaAmerican households those folks are faced with the same economic problems yet here you are assuming they will make up for your financial problems. Many people suffer in this economy and to think you can raise your prices to the point of which you suggest does not mean it is practical or just. Sorry I forgot you don't care about the problems of the customer because you are Not a scumbag? Convince someone else, I don't believe much of anything you've written!

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

              Originally posted by cpw View Post
              Franki,

              If he charged $1200 for the owner-supplied toilet no one would pay it, at least no one who was cost sensitive.

              In a customers house, with a customer supplied toilet I wouldn't expect it to take him just a bit over an hour. That doesn't mean it won't take him another hour to dispose of the toilet, get to the house etc. So he might make $300/hr while at your house, but when you consider everything else it could be half of that.

              The rate that Leonard is quoting is per hour that his plumbers are at someones house, not the rate they expect to earn all day. Since he is bragging about doing lots of repipe jobs that take 2 guys six hours, and his numbers seem to be for his whole business, that he should be able to get more than 4 hours average out of them to spread around his fixed expensies.


              I think the important thing isn't what the most expensive plumber chrages, but what the average or low-end charges. That will set the price that you *have to pay* to get a pro to do it. Keep in mind, you also have the option of doing some things yourself if you don't want to pay for it [although there are obviously some things that would be stupid to do yourself].

              Regarding not everyone in Eastchester being rich and having a mansion, we look at it from two opposite ends of the spectrum. You look at with sympathy for others on a fixed income. I look at it from the perspective of someone who wants a single family detached home, my wife and I both work and together make more than the median income for the county/town, and yet when we were looking for houses, we could input the top end of our budget into a search and find no listings because they were all higher than that. Thus if you look at it from that perspective, if you choose to live there you are (or at least 2 years ago) were sitting on a pile of cash, so at least to us it seems they are pretty well off. It is kind of like on a highway. Everyone going slower than you is a moron; and everyone going faster than you is a maniac.
              I'll respond to people living in Eastchester because I've already given my thoughts on the guy who is not a scumbag! Many of the high value home in your town and mine for that matter are occupied by folks who are strapped financially. I have over seven hundred thousand dollars in equity in my house but it does me no good unless I sell it or second mortgage it. You are missing the fact that wealthy people do not necessarily live in pricey homes. You are a pretty smart guy so I suggest you broaden your thinking to include all the retired people and working people who were able to afford their mortgage, taxes and utilities when they moved into their homes years ago but who are now unable to maintain those homes and pay those rising bills in this economy. Like many I was able to pay my taxes and heat my home fifteen years ago, now my income has not increased but my taxes have doubled and the heating oil is up five hundred percent. I'm willing to bet there are plenty of similar situations in those over valued homes where you live. Please be open to the possibilities and not what you have assumed to be facts.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

                Whether you disagree with Leonard or not I don't see how calling people names (both directions) solves anything. It is okay for people to agree to disagree and still be civil. My guess is there is not a single person on this forum who will be hiring Bestline to come work at their home. However, he did not come here to solicit business from the forum. I believe he came here to stimulate some talk about finding your cost of sales when pricing work. There has been a good exchange of ideas and we have all expressed our beliefs. While his rates are higher than most feel they should be (myself included) there is some truth to his basic plan. I'm sure we will all takes some new found knowledge away from this exchange and for that I thank Leonard.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

                  What you THINK about the economy does matter. What does matter is what works. I live in a city with 11 to 13 million people. I don't advertise in the yellow pages. I target the areas, homes, and incomes I want to do business with.

                  I have several advertising camiaigns that will blow your mind away so my targeting is very accurate.

                  You are talking crap. I am telling you exactly what I do. I am not like you who is telling me what you think the situation is. I did not say I don't care about the customer 'fool'. I said the customer's money is not my problem. My problem is to do the job the right way.

                  You are living proof that you are trying analyze your customer's financial status. I read more books about business every year that you probably read in your whole life. I read the book, 'The Millionaire Next Door' This book talks about millionaires who live in avarage houses and their neighbors know nothing about them.

                  Does the amount of information I post sound like I have the knowledge of the average person.

                  I'm not trying to sell you a thing. I'm just trying to tell fools like you that your way of thinking tells me that you are a loser. You are 100% wrong. You are losing out on some of the best things in life because you don't have the ability to even wonder if what I say is true.

                  Have any member come to my shop, any time, and lets put this calling me a liar or a scumbag to sleep. Then you can eat crap and apologize for the verbal abuse.

                  Why would I tell you that any member can come spend a few hours with me if I am a liar.

                  Send someone to my shop.

                  Fool!

                  Jack

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

                    To: Utah

                    How do you figure I came to the forum to solicit business? Where is one of my posts that infer that I am selling something?

                    The only way to put a stop to these insults is to come to my office and I will show you all my contracts, bank accounts, and everything you need.

                    Obviously, I am the best in the world at marketing and sales and you don't have the ability to see what can be accomplished with a good education and hard work.

                    It is not my problem. Come to my office and I will pay 1/2 of your ticket and pay all your hotel bill, just to put a rest to this. You will be amazed and I will have to eat crow.

                    Jack

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      to Utah

                      I take that back. I will pay for all of your ticket and hotel.

                      Call me at 1-800-342-9559

                      After someone comes here. Then, we can move on to some very powerful advertising campaigns that work for me, even if the worse of times.

                      I never look at the economy. I never watch television. I will show you why every plumber hates Bestline. Nobody can compete with my advertising.

                      Jack

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

                        To Utah:

                        This weekend would be grate. I told you I am going to Vegas next week.

                        With all respect.

                        Call and I will purchase the ticket on line. The trip will be worth it.

                        Jack

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Sucks being at the top don't it?

                          Here is what I'm gathering from all this rhetoric, and I thought I was the only one that could type out brittanica's latest edition of dictionaries in print.



                          From a realistic view, you've logged in hours trying to push a strategy, defend that strategy, now you're hostile to protect your name and on top of all this, disclosing your most extreme personal life by mentioning kids, what colleges they went to, your full name for those who would really give a flying **** whether you're important or just another barrage of pixels on the screen.


                          Someone obviously touched a nerve with you in something said, of course I'm not going to read it all. I've come to realize in life that if something is true, it usually carries a adverse reaction by defending endlessly, down to the name calling and accusatory statements to belittle and scold to place on a higher level.

                          If it isn't true, why are you so dead set on proving otherwise? I'm well liked in the world of internet, I"m also well hated in the same stroke and I don't lose one wink of sleep as a result. I'm a stand alone thinker and one moment I'm in unison with your thinking and the next minute I'm a polar opposite. If you don't like that then tough ****. I don't care.


                          All I'm getting out of your agenda here is you are "for some reason" wanting to lay out everything and anything about you to either build a faulting ego or comprise some sympathy from the masses that you are the "best" in your pointed view.


                          There's nothing wrong with drive and direction, but you are someone that claims to be at the top....showing a truely ugly side that nothing will ever be enough to satisfy your current position, otherwise you'd be spending time focusing on more pertinent matters.


                          Enough about you,

                          I got my own problems to deal with, I just thought the momento of my thinking was justified since you whopper-jawed my thread topic about how employees are useless. I still haven't changed my mind on that topic as I watched a good businessman slam his phone on his desk when he found out 3 of 11 employees weren't showing up today....the guy is slammed with work.

                          No writing on the wall changes insubordination or the "typical" american worker that has figured out a way to build every excuse not to work because they've accustomed to knowing that their job is a job, no personal commitment as there is so many out there to choose from. Don't try to lecture me on hiring professions because I'm better than that, I'm not going to play that game because I'm better off in the long run, truly by manning this show without, instead of with. You'll read every word I printed so comprise your rebuttal and expect no response from me; I'm not playing the game anymore.
                          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                          • #73
                            Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            I'll respond to people living in Eastchester because I've already given my thoughts on the guy who is not a scumbag! Many of the high value home in your town and mine for that matter are occupied by folks who are strapped financially. I have over seven hundred thousand dollars in equity in my house but it does me no good unless I sell it or second mortgage it. You are missing the fact that wealthy people do not necessarily live in pricey homes. You are a pretty smart guy so I suggest you broaden your thinking to include all the retired people and working people who were able to afford their mortgage, taxes and utilities when they moved into their homes years ago but who are now unable to maintain those homes and pay those rising bills in this economy. Like many I was able to pay my taxes and heat my home fifteen years ago, now my income has not increased but my taxes have doubled and the heating oil is up five hundred percent. I'm willing to bet there are plenty of similar situations in those over valued homes where you live. Please be open to the possibilities and not what you have assumed to be facts.
                            My point is that if you have an overvalued home, you can actually sell it and move somewhere cheaper. The woman that I bought my current house from did just that - sold the house, paid off her mortgage, and iwas planning to use some of the proceeds to buy a 2 bedroom house on a lake in Putnam. There are also plenty of people (young and old) who move away from pricy areas like Long Island, Westchester etc.to North Carolina, Georgia, etc. because they have a more reasonable cost of living.

                            I am about to make myself really unpopular. I am not entitled to live in Scarsdale or Eastchester because my wife really would like it; we simply have enough money to do it. Just because you lived in Scarsdale for the last 30 years doesn't mean that you are entitled to continue living there. If you have a house that is worth $800,000 (which is not at all a stretch at all in these areas) you can sell that house, get a similar one just 30 miles away; and walk away with $400,000. The cheaper house will have lower taxes, if you get a smaller one it will even be less expensive to maintain, and that $400,000 will pay for a lot of heating oil. It is my opinion that owning a home in a nice part of southern Westchester is a luxury given that there are other, far less expensive, options available not too far away.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              Whether you disagree with Leonard or not I don't see how calling people names (both directions) solves anything. It is okay for people to agree to disagree and still be civil. My guess is there is not a single person on this forum who will be hiring Bestline to come work at their home. However, he did not come here to solicit business from the forum. I believe he came here to stimulate some talk about finding your cost of sales when pricing work. There has been a good exchange of ideas and we have all expressed our beliefs. While his rates are higher than most feel they should be (myself included) there is some truth to his basic plan. I'm sure we will all takes some new found knowledge away from this exchange and for that I thank Leonard.

                              Mark
                              Originally posted by bestline3 View Post
                              To: Utah

                              How do you figure I came to the forum to solicit business? Where is one of my posts that infer that I am selling something?

                              The only way to put a stop to these insults is to come to my office and I will show you all my contracts, bank accounts, and everything you need.

                              Obviously, I am the best in the world at marketing and sales and you don't have the ability to see what can be accomplished with a good education and hard work.

                              It is not my problem. Come to my office and I will pay 1/2 of your ticket and pay all your hotel bill, just to put a rest to this. You will be amazed and I will have to eat crow.

                              Jack
                              leonard, you really need to get some sleep as your eyes and mind is wandering.

                              actually me and another well known member are actually talking about coming to meet you.

                              but i want to 1 up that. i want to actually come and inspect some of your work. i want to crawl under the houses. i want to do what the inspectors don't do. i want to get dirty and see what your work really looks like.

                              i want to see how you stack up against all the other non inspected jobs i see.

                              i suppose i will have easy pickings of the homes since you work in my neck of the woods. remember even i get your fliers on my door steps. i guess your hired help can't see my truck in the driveway probably because i work more than 4. 5 hours a day

                              i know you're leaving in a week. so i will be getting together with the other member and making a call to set this up. the inspection thing doesn't have to happen this weekend. but just a list of satisfied customers that i can visit. i won't be reporting the findings to them. just you and the forum both good and bad.

                              i know my years of union training with 15 years new construction, and another 12 years of service and repair. no to mention the additional 6 years of working summers from 12-18 should make me more than qualified.
                              plus i already provide this service for my customers doing home remodeling.

                              looking forward to critiquing your operation. i'll make the phone call in the next day or 2.

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

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                              • #75
                                Re: Is $280 to $340 The Correct Hourly Price

                                Great. You are on. I'll give you a list of jobs and you choose. I even have pictures of almost every job when the work is finished

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