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  • See this?

    Right here





    Now, for aaaaaaallllll you folks that like a interesting plot that thickens like my arteries after a #3 from McDonald's, here it goes:



    Got a call from "a" Delta Rep and was told that they "found" that "thread" and "they" are not "happy".


    Better yet, I'm supposed to be contacted on the matter in regards to my statements and I should expect to get an earful, as advised.


    Now, I'll tell you what, thank you whoever you are who sent a link to this thread. If you're my enemy, I congratulate you for bringing me into focus. I just surpassed hundreds of thousands of product complaints as all mfgs. of products deal with by default and now you have me on a pedestal with all eyes on my words. This is the 3rd time I've come to be held accountable for my opinions in regards to my interpretations and how I represent my attitude into what I like and dislike.

    If you're my friend and didn't believe me, kudos for channeling the knowledge I had on this matter and bringing light to this discussion. I was the first plumber on the internet to bring out the knowledge on the new cam assemblies for single handle faucets, apparently I've broken tide by showing my displeasure on this latest design involving new style single handled faucets with fused supply lines made out of .........????


    To Delta,

    Short of reading old sea scrolls, if you venture into internet space and start following my rhetoric on your product, you'll soon find that I've done battle in defense of your product for years, with the "so easy a caveman can do it" when it comes to maintenance and repair of your product. You've never once came to recognize my positive thinking about your product, but you're quick to substantiate and defend the first notion I take on a negative inference to your product. Of course, nobody likes to see a horse break his leg right out of the starting gate, but my association between your product and me, my reputation as a licensed plumber comes down to product reliability.

    You either have it or you don't, I don't put in products that come back to haunt me. That is the sole reason why I've been so loyal to your product.

    What you're doing now is crossing a boundary that not only I don't feel comfortable with, but I see this as a diminishing factor of a "once was" good thing. Remember, my statements are educated opinions, they are intended to provide a reasonable example portrayed across internet forums to allow others to make formulated opinions to what is in their best interest. If you feel compelled to discredit my termage, my factual experiences, my constant exposure to products including but not limited to Delta, I should expect nothing more than a social, pleasant phone call from your representatives.

    There's a lot of things you can try to discredit with my thinking, especially knowing that I'm not an engineer of your product, certainly not a plastic chemist knowing all that goes into your products.

    You have a excellent product, people are sold on your product by name alone. The recent changes in your product as sold to big box stores has kept me from purchasing any products from those stores as a little birdie told me, "Those faucets are not made here in United States". Those one piece pop-up assemblies? Great idea but half the time the mack washers are not sealing properly, a call to customer service and you all ALWAYS go back to your basics and send an all-brass pop-up. << The good ones that I started in this profession using.


    Nothing wrong with that, we all know that everything can be built and assembled cheaper in other parts of the world and hey, why not increase profit margins.....that's what we all long to do.


    Let's take it a step further;

    There's a ongoing truth unfolding with the consumer making the elective decision to replace their faucets every 3-4 years on average to follow the ritual of keeping up with latest styles and designs. I know this from being a service plumber with a customer calling solely to replace a faucet to satisfy this requirement.

    That's great, job security for all of us but I can't even begin to count how many faucets I've either rebuilt, reworked in regards to Delta Faucets that were aging faucets getting 10-20 years easily and the product started with one set goal in mind;


    build it to last.


    Brass bodies, simple small wearable parts that probably 100 mfgs. copied because the idea was that damn good. Those brass threaded faucet bodies, perfect. Guaranteed to take on a metal or plastic supply nut with no problems for literally a lifetime. If you hook a plastic supply line to it and it snaps/breaks/ruptures........it's not on your dime.

    You smash mouth Kohler to death when it comes to getting parts for your older faucets, your older roman tub faucets and the like. And if you discontinue a product like the 600 series tub/shower valves, at least your not afraid to put it out there, not put it in a crazed maze like moen or kohler is notorious for doing.


    I don't want to hear a response of "lifetime warranty" on your products, whether new or not. You know there's only a fraction of people that actually follow that routine, and that's more for promotional purposes to keep up with every other product mfg. with their constant drumroll to lifetime warranty chimes.

    You can send me a gazillion lab tests on how this new age plastic withstood all conditions.....but so far nobody has built the master mousetrap to null the common historical problem with aging plastic,


    it breaks and fails. The intention may be for this to happen, maybe not. I know from being a plumber that if I put my hands on something that's plastic, sooner or later it's coming back out...and more times than not, when water pressure is associated with that mix that usually means property damage will accompany that idea.


    I will defend my stance in regards to my opinion in this matter as I forsee issues arising out of my first statement of the installers of this product forcing those supply lines to be forced into ways that can cause product failure. Kohler got it right with those braided supply lines....they just shouldn't of made those crimp to body....but I can see how that removes one more failure point of leaking in the mass marketing idea when product is sold and someone installs it improperly.


    Please join this forum community and express your freedom to communicate with me and converse about your product and how some of us have come to be weary of products that we constantly bring to supply houses to replace, crumbled in our hands or part of the montage of insurance claims when product reliability takes two steps backwards, not one step forward. You're single handled faucets with those cartridges will be significantly more expensive to repair on a simple leak, something simple as calcium buildup that can instantly cause problems with the design involving two flat surfaces coming together and no way to displace debris.

    You have every right to defend your product and I'll appreciate full disclosure on why your product may not fit into the realm of what I'm describing.

    But please, don't expect me to not understand the physical characteristics of plastic and how and why age, temperature variances play a vital role in how that product wears.

    The same reason why those tubes I see on that new design of those tubes has specifically color coded stiffeners made into the ends of those tubes,

    the chrome brass, not plastic 3/8" compression nuts specifically gauged for the tube to set at a preset depth so the tubing does not blow back out of the compression connection...the only connection you have your product spec'd for.



    I've cut my hands many a times on the punchout holes on stainless steel sinks, the majority of faucet installations enjoy in regards to kitchens. That's soon changing but a inset shield that is removable by tearoff for "other than" applications would be a good start to protect those tubes from damage when those tubes are hard forced to fit into an angle or straight stop.


    The line of questioning was just as concerning from the purchaser of the supply house buying product to install for his plumbing company, as it was on my side of the counter about what I should expect to deal with when I start dealing with these latest changes and how this product does NOT fall into the category of all the others.

    I'm sure the same people that referred you to my first statements will be sure to refer you to this one as well. I feel guilty to harbor this much attention at this point.
    Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 07-28-2008, 08:25 PM.
    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

  • #2
    Re: See this?

    Dunbar, what does all this mean? So every time we post something negative about a product we should expect a call from the manufacture?

    Is what you posted initially about Delta the truth, according to what you were told?

    I would love to have Delta post a reply. Come on Delta, set the story straight.

    That is what I like about this site and Ridgid. Ridgid doesn't take their ball and go home when post something negative about their products. Ridgid has balls.
    Last edited by Tyman; 07-28-2008, 08:28 PM.
    Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: See this?

      I don't think I would even pay attention to it. If anything someone may tell you why/if they are going to a new material and sing the praises of said material but what else would you expect. As I recall Delta does not have sales rep they are all outside reps so the thought that "Delta" is looking at you seems of little consequence.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: See this?

        Originally posted by Tyman View Post
        Dunbar, what does all this mean? So every time we post something negative about a product we should expect a call from the manufacture?

        Is what you posted initially about Delta the truth, according to what you were told?

        That is what I like about this site and Ridgid. Ridgid doesn't take their ball and go home when post something negative about their products.

        Personally, it's why I like this site. Ridgid has balls.


        This happened to me on DIY.com, then again on another site. Two different products entirely and there was a meeting of minds and it died.


        Is what you posted initially about Delta the truth, according to what you were told?

        Absolutely, unless brass and copper suddenly turned gray and light, flexible. I had every intention of stating for the record what concerns I had, along with the guy on the other side of the counter was asking.......

        CONCERN.


        I saw the product first hand, had it in my hands, actually bent the tubes to watch what they was doing at the fused point where it locks into the body of the faucet. You cut those tubes and put nuts on those lines, I bet a jelly donut that voids the warranty. Just because it already has predetermined lengths with color coded stiffeners and supply nuts.


        At this point we all need someone from Delta to come to the plate and read the responses. This site is full of educated, wise and licensed plumbers and this nesting ground is a great one to see what we will soon have in our hands, owning the responsibility when installed.



        No chance of getting free parts from my rep now....


        Ahh...they did away with that months ago anyway. He's a great guy though, I should of warned him of my internet powers.
        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: See this?

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          I don't think I would even pay attention to it. If anything someone may tell you why/if they are going to a new material and sing the praises of said material but what else would you expect. As I recall Delta does not have sales rep they are all outside reps so the thought that "Delta" is looking at you seems of little consequence.

          Mark

          I can't say in regards to names and level of authority, but they knew the site, knew the thread, knew the convo.

          You should know me by now Mark! This doesn't mean anything to me other than a soon to be disclosure for them to stand up to the plate to defend what I feel is something of a concern.
          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: See this?

            Well now I'm scared. I've been saying that Moen is crap for years

            And while I'm at it, I suppose it would be wrong to voice an opinion of Glacier Bay products or for that matter the store that sells them.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: See this?

              I think Marks correct. Delta, like alot of the products we use, are "repped out" to companies for certain areas. Two faucet lines, your water heaters, Sioux Chief, Hercules, etc. all repped by one company with usually one or two people visiting your local supply house. Delta is just a drop in the pond to the MASCO corporation. MASCO is a huge company & I don't think they are gonna worry too much about any of us.

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: See this?

                See "Kohler Sucks" under professional.

                J.C.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: See this?

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                  See "Kohler Sucks" under professional.

                  J.C.
                  Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: See this?

                    2 words here, "Wow and Weird"....

                    I guess I too should be careful and not ever talk bad about Ryobi....
                    Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                    http://www.contractorspub.com

                    A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: See this?

                      Originally posted by garager View Post
                      2 words here, "Wow and Weird"....

                      I guess I too should be careful and not ever talk bad about Ryobi....


                      Too late,


                      They're comin' to get ya!


                      I just got back from unclogging a cheesed up urinal at a local Subway restaurant. Thought for sure I was being followed.
                      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: See this?

                        Indian people with plastic gloves? No evidence. Watch your back.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: See this?

                          Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                          Too late,


                          They're comin' to get ya!


                          I just got back from unclogging a cheesed up urinal at a local Subway restaurant. Thought for sure I was being followed.
                          It's the CIA buddy...there's a little known link between Delta and government conspiracies to cover up the truth.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: See this?

                            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                            It's the CIA buddy...there's a little known link between Delta and government conspiracies to cover up the truth.
                            Diabolical
                            Entity for
                            Liquid
                            Transfer
                            Association



                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: See this?

                              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                              Indian people with plastic gloves? No evidence. Watch your back.

                              J.C.


                              Comment

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