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  • #31
    Re: Gulp...oil.

    I think we need to be energy independent,

    If that takes off shore drilling then so be it,

    It may or may not drop the price, as oil is traded on a world scale, but if it makes us energy independent it is worth it, why should we be sending money to people who want to see us as a people and a nation dead, lets at lest keep in our own country, or a the least with countries that are true allies,

    the big issue is dependable supplies, if you think food is expensive, a large part of food cost is transportation and preparation (all takes energy),

    with oil food will not be transported, emergency services will not be able to move, people will not be able to make it to work, businesses will go out of business if cost of energy get to high, and LACK OF SUPPLIES WILL REALLY DRIVE UP THE COST>

    but it there is a major disruption of oil supplies to this county even jsut a few percent the price sky rockets, but this country can not run with out energy, just go to the breaker box and click the main breaker and see how long you go before you not jsut want it back on but demand it back on,

    in the same breath it is only logical that alternate energies be pushed, (problem is alternate energies usually are more expensive than oil or coal),

    so in a world ran by the $, and how much of it you get to keep in your pockets, using alternate energies does not go far when it cost more,

    also so much of the cost of alternate energies is up front cost,

    If I want to buy a wind turbine for the farm I need to shell out $50 to 100,000 depending on model and type of unit, to supply the power needs I have, so I ask this question, of my self I currently pay $150 or so each month for the grid, the the payment on the system would be in the $350 to $500 min if not more for going on my own, so what Do I do (reality here, I DIY , hoping to put up a 10 kw unit, of my own design and construction), but currently I buy from the grid and power company.

    but yes we as a nation need a energy policy that pushes energy Independence, FOR NATIONAL SECURITY, cut off our oil even a small percentage and were nearly dead in the water.
    at the growth of energy needs in this country it is obvious that we are going to need a combination of conversation, exploration, and renewable to continue the growth we currently enjoy,

    and by the way I actually sell some carbon credits on the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) through a farm group, where we pool our available credits and make a large enough block to trade,

    the cost of #2 blame it on the EPA, they changed the sulfur requirements and it cost more to refine diesels now,
    Last edited by BHD; 08-07-2008, 11:42 AM.
    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
    attributed to Samuel Johnson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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    • #32
      Re: Gulp...oil.

      Well, I actually agree with most of the posts on this thread. So I'm heading outside to check my tires for proper inflation after it stops raining
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Gulp...oil.

        Eli,

        Remember Bush signed the Executive Order on July 14th. I've long said OPEC would respond to just the threat we would resume drilling for oil. I'm sure there is a lot more to the entire debate than this but consider these numbers for the price of a barrel of crude oil:

        2008 Jun- 2 to Jun- 6 127.75 124.33 122.30 127.93 138.51

        2008 Jun- 9 to Jun-13 134.44 131.38 136.43 136.91 134.84

        2008 Jun-16 to Jun-20 134.52 133.99 136.54 131.88 134.78

        2008 Jun-23 to Jun-27 135.98 136.49 133.92 138.91 139.69

        2008 Jun-30 to Jul- 4 139.96 141.06 143.74 145.31

        2008 Jul- 7 to Jul-11 141.38 136.06 135.88 141.47 144.96

        2008 Jul-14 to Jul-18 145.16 138.68 134.63 129.43 128.94

        2008 Jul-21 to Jul-25 131.43 127.25 123.73 124.62 122.59

        2008 Jul-28 to Aug- 1 124.72 122.21 126.74 124.17 125.03

        2008 Aug- 4 to Aug- 8 121.45 118.71 118.57 119.84 115.42

        2008 Aug-11 to Aug-15 114.44 113.10

        Sorry I lost the format. Here is a link:

        http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/rwtcd.htm

        Mark
        Last edited by ToUtahNow; 08-15-2008, 10:38 PM.
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Gulp...oil.

          Nice observation Mark, and I believe you are on to something. I for one support local drilling as a temporary measure until we can find ways to be more oil independent in the future. I am glad that all of us Americans as a democratic majority are taking the oil crisis seriously and hopefully positive things will happen in the next few years...and decades to come.
          I am tired of bipartisan bickering and I truly hope and believe that democrats and republicans alike will unite to solve this problem. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

          American is still a great country, and we can solve this problem.
          Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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          • #35
            Re: Gulp...oil.

            I'm against drilling.I like leaving in the ground in case of emergency.I would rather wait till we have the technology to wage war
            WITHOUT our oil before we burn it up.

            Besides,I like the way the glutones are looking to technology to help ease their pain.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Gulp...oil.

              Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
              I'm against drilling.I like leaving in the ground in case of emergency.I would rather wait till we have the technology to wage war
              WITHOUT our oil before we burn it up.

              Besides,I like the way the glutones are looking to technology to help ease their pain.

              I would like to do everything and when better methods are found scale down on crude. Oil is no different than how the electric companies generate power. Hydro plants will hold water in reservoirs until there is a premium to generate than release the water. During cheap power they actually pump the water from an after bay back into a reservoir. I would love to have the oil available to us and never use it. The mere fact that it is available on the market will prevent hostile countries from holding us hostage over oil.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Gulp...oil.

                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                I would like to do everything and when better methods are found scale down on crude. Oil is no different than how the electric companies generate power. Hydro plants will hold water in reservoirs until there is a premium to generate than release the water. During cheap power they actually pump the water from an after bay back into a reservoir. I would love to have the oil available to us and never use it. The mere fact that it is available on the market will prevent hostile countries from holding us hostage over oil.

                Mark
                I would love the same Mark.

                But Americans are Pigs.We save nothing.I have no idea why our pants have pockets.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Gulp...oil.

                  Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                  I would love the same Mark.

                  But Americans are Pigs.We save nothing.I have no idea why our pants have pockets.
                  The only time pockets are of any use is as a foreman. Once you move up to the boss you cross your arms instead.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Gulp...oil.

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    The only time pockets are of any use is as a foreman. Once you move up to the boss you cross your arms instead.

                    Mark

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                    • #40
                      Re: Gulp...oil.

                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                      I would like to do everything and when better methods are found scale down on crude. Oil is no different than how the electric companies generate power. Hydro plants will hold water in reservoirs until there is a premium to generate than release the water. During cheap power they actually pump the water from an after bay back into a reservoir. I would love to have the oil available to us and never use it. The mere fact that it is available on the market will prevent hostile countries from holding us hostage over oil.

                      Mark

                      I agree, but unless the infrastructure is set up in place to with draw it in nearly a moment's notice, to be able to start to extract it "tomorrow" not 10 years, from now if some type of emergency happens, so that means to drill now and set it up at lest, and probly with draw some to keep it operational, but the government COULD set up a "ready reserve" and give (local oil) some type of tax break or other for keeping a group of wells are ready (at lest to be able to have them pumping before the strategic reserves would be depleted). I would prefer it much quicker, so if the ME blow up, were not held hostage and put in 1930 depression type situation here, do to NO oil.
                      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                      attributed to Samuel Johnson
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Gulp...oil.

                        Drilling here is making more and more sense in spite of the fact that I have been against it for years. Situations change and with the skyrocketing price of crude I agree we must put multiple strategies into play. Give the oil companies the green light but have them take proper precautions not to ruin the environment (it can be done). While this aproach may take seven or so years it will send a message that we are on our way to being self sufficient. Alternative energies will cetainly move forward as well in the short term, such as the large scale solar electricity genrating facilities planned for California and thirty other states. Hybrid or plugin cars will be more widely used and if we keep cutting back on our driving there may be light at the end of the tunnel. I would also like to see the USA become more independant of foreign coutries for our consumer goods, food and other essentials. I'm not suggesting isolationism, but rather a productive society that can take care of it's own and not be at the mercy of india and china for so much of what we need to live. I remember using good quality parts and materials made right here in the good old USA and they were better that those "made in Japan". Now we are stuck with inferior goods made in india, china and elsewhere, these parts and materials used in construction, auto manufacturing and repair along with food from these countries puts us at risk. We cannot control the quality or quantity of what we recieve. Why remain at such a disadvantage? Sorry if this suggested change would hurt some of you in the stock market who depend on foreign companies to replace American based companies and workers.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Gulp...oil.

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          I would like to do everything and when better methods are found scale down on crude. Oil is no different than how the electric companies generate power. Hydro plants will hold water in reservoirs until there is a premium to generate than release the water. During cheap power they actually pump the water from an after bay back into a reservoir. I would love to have the oil available to us and never use it. The mere fact that it is available on the market will prevent hostile countries from holding us hostage over oil.

                          Mark
                          Is that what is going to happen with the newly drilled oil, because I hadn't heard that. In fact I still have yet to hear how drilling will help out anyone except the oil industry, and those who will gain from it financially. If that is the argument for drilling, so be it, but the idea that we will have it ready for our use in emergency or set up to extract it when needed and most importantly that it will affect the price for our fuel? Come on.

                          If people are for the drilling because there is money in it, fine. But what I find objectionable is using fear and falsities to get the public who will not gain any security, money, savings or benefit whatsoever from the venture to go along. That is what I see happening here.

                          Any explanation as to why oil is up nearly 400% from after 9/11? I'd find that a lot more telling than speculation after a Bush speech, as well as no rebound after the stalling by the Dems. Because I'll tell you something, there was an energy crisis here in Cali that had rolling brownouts--huge gouging and huge political ramifications for the government here that turned out to be 100% manipulation. Enron ring a bell? It was all bull. I smell the same thing again.

                          I wonder how the Bush family is making out during this crisis? I wonder how they will be affected by the opening of offshore drilling? I wonder how Mr. Cheney's "blind trusts" are fairing. And Condi's?


                          And again, just so it is well known that I detest both sides and think they are all full of it, Nancy Pelosi talking about opening up the oil reserves is a harmful, disgusting, ridiculous notion. It makes me sick that these are the people who are in charge.



                          Eli
                          A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Gulp...oil.

                            Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                            Is that what is going to happen with the newly drilled oil, because I hadn't heard that. In fact I still have yet to hear how drilling will help out anyone except the oil industry, and those who will gain from it financially. If that is the argument for drilling, so be it, but the idea that we will have it ready for our use in emergency or set up to extract it when needed and most importantly that it will affect the price for our fuel? Come on.

                            If people are for the drilling because there is money in it, fine. But what I find objectionable is using fear and falsities to get the public who will not gain any security, money, savings or benefit whatsoever from the venture to go along. That is what I see happening here.

                            Any explanation as to why oil is up nearly 400% from after 9/11? I'd find that a lot more telling than speculation after a Bush speech, as well as no rebound after the stalling by the Dems. Because I'll tell you something, there was an energy crisis here in Cali that had rolling brownouts--huge gouging and huge political ramifications for the government here that turned out to be 100% manipulation. Enron ring a bell? It was all bull. I smell the same thing again.

                            I wonder how the Bush family is making out during this crisis? I wonder how they will be affected by the opening of offshore drilling? I wonder how Mr. Cheney's "blind trusts" are fairing. And Condi's?


                            And again, just so it is well known that I detest both sides and think they are all full of it, Nancy Pelosi talking about opening up the oil reserves is a harmful, disgusting, ridiculous notion. It makes me sick that these are the people who are in charge.



                            Eli
                            Wow, where is the proof of this? I know, I know, Im crazy if I dont think that politicians have their hand in the kettle, but please show me the proof because you are leveling serious allegations. I think you have gone mad with all these conspiracy theories.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Gulp...oil.

                              Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                              Wow, where is the proof of this? I know, I know, Im crazy if I dont think that politicians have their hand in the kettle, but please show me the proof because you are leveling serious allegations. I think you have gone mad with all these conspiracy theories.
                              There isn't one thing I said that wasn't widely reported on in California. Look it up. It's not a theory when they put people in jail for it, Chris.


                              I know, I know, anyone who thinks that politicians are corrupt or corruptible must be a wing-nut.

                              And as for my questions as to how the current cabinet is making out financially during this crisis, if they have the appearance of possibly benefiting from anything within their control it is a conflict of interest. I really don't understand why that doesn't bother you. Seriously, why would these particular people with these concrete ties to companies that are benefiting so much from their policy be the best choice for office? I mean for the people, obviously they are the best choice for the companies.


                              Eli
                              A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Gulp...oil.

                                Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                                There isn't one thing I said that wasn't widely reported on in California. Look it up. It's not a theory when they put people in jail for it, Chris.


                                I know, I know, anyone who thinks that politicians are corrupt or corruptible must be a wing-nut.

                                And as for my questions as to how the current cabinet is making out financially during this crisis, if they have the appearance of possibly benefiting from anything within their control it is a conflict of interest. I really don't understand why that doesn't bother you. Seriously, why would these particular people with these concrete ties to companies that are benefiting so much from their policy be the best choice for office? I mean for the people, obviously they are the best choice for the companies.


                                Eli
                                Eli, I agree with you but feel the same is true no matter who is in charge. Power corrupts! In spite of the checks and balances of our government there is not much being done to combat the influence of lobbyists and other powerful interests from manipulating our legislators for their own purposes. I would not single out the republicans because the democrats are just as corrupt. Unless we can monitor and control the human element in government and business, these problems will repeat themselves. We can build safe nuclear power plants and oil barges (Exxon Valdez) but put a drunk at the controls and you have a problem. I watched "Shark Week" on cable recently and was scared by the thought of such horror. Fact is sharks kill less than a handful of people a year, how many adults and children do we lose to people driving under the influence or distracted on a cell phone? What makes government honest, machines and cars safe? The weak link is us!

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