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  • #61
    Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

    Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
    You post was so extremely one-sided its not even worth a response.
    No,no,no Carl you said I was spewing propaganda and lies. So again, I ask you to show me what was untrue?

    Im sure if you had something negative to say about McCain you would wouldn't you. So come on Carl, lets have it, tell me what I said was untrue? Im waiting.............

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      By the way has anyone else noticed the slide in the price of oil started when Bush lifted the Executive Order against off-shore drilling? Imagine how low the price could have gone had the vacationing Congress done their job.

      Mark
      Actually what I heard was that the price of oil dropped because of decreased demand almost worldwide, not because of off-shore drilling.
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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      • #63
        Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        The problem as a politician is you have to consider the consequences of having a real conversation about race in America. Obama's cronies went after Bill and Hillary and accused them of using race against Obama and now they are doing the same thing with McCain. It is one thing to talk the talk and another thing to walk the walk. Obama may have been the great uniter we all needed but I'm afraid the bright lights have clouded his judgement.

        Mark
        You are right again. I think when Obama claimed that McCain was saying he didn't look like a president because he is black it was an out and out falsehood and exactly the same kind of crap I am talking about. I don't give him a free pass for it at all. He lost a lot of credibility at that moment.

        I don't think there can be a discussion on race by politicians running for president. I shudder at the thought to be honest. I guess what I was hoping his point was, and what my point is is that not talking about it honestly but still trying to pin people with racial hatred when they break any eggshell rule is not productive. If we use the false context that denies the wide spectrum of prejudice that exists means those gotcha moments are vapor. Call Obama on playing the race card against McCain and I'll agree, but acting like it hurts your feelings that he suggested old white women are afraid of black men is bogus. Both my grandmas harbor prejudice just like what he is talking about. It may very well be typical, and if it isn't, but that is his experience so what? Even if he didn't say it on the radio it would still be true.

        But I know that is idealistic and not realistic in politics.

        Call people on the politics of race, giving it back to them in kind doesn't help IMO. Someone has to take the high road sometime. I hope?


        Eli
        A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          By the way has anyone else noticed the slide in the price of oil started when Bush lifted the Executive Order against off-shore drilling? Imagine how low the price could have gone had the vacationing Congress done their job.

          Mark
          Mark, I replied to this idea in the gulp...oil thread. I would love to get your input on that subject over there if you have the time.


          Eli
          A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

            That is a flip flop I think the MAJORITY of Americans can agree on don't you think?



            But that is the definition of a flip flop! And it wasn't back when oil was $30 a barrel he said no to Anwar, it was only a few months ago if that. Don't you think the majority of Americans agree with Obama's "flip-flops" too? That is why they do it.



            The gas tax holiday? I'm not sure what to think of it, but I can tell you it's a better idean then to tune up your car and check the air pressure.


            What Obama said about tune ups and tire pressure is that the amount of oil that we could get from new drilling would be the same amount saved by taking care of our vehicles. His point was it is only that amount of energy, not that it is THE solution to the problem. The gas tax holiday is bs. The amount of money it would save the average family at the price peak is under $50.


            Do you really believe that nonsense about 100 years? Do you know that we still have a military presence in Germany, Italy, South Korea? They have been there for what 50-60 years? They are not in combat but they are still there, strategically placed is that not a bonus? You dont really think he was talking about being in combat for 100 years now do you, I know you better then that.



            NO!! I don't believe it, that is my point! And you don't believe that Obama said he "wants to invade Pakistan"!! That is exactly my point. They are both misrepresentations of what they said. Yes, McCain said we may be in Iraq for the next 100 years, for just the reasons you stated. When libs act like he meant something else they are doing the same thing you are with the Pakistan statement.


            To clarify why I put thew pic of Rumsfeld and Saddam was just to point out that politicians, even ones you yourself voted into office, will get in bed with nearly anyone if they have to. Both of these men were denounced when they were no longer needed. Again, I don't trust any of them.



            Eli
            A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

              Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post


              But that is the definition of a flip flop! And it wasn't back when oil was $30 a barrel he said no to Anwar, it was only a few months ago if that. Don't you think the majority of Americans agree with Obama's "flip-flops" too? That is why they do it.

              He's had so many, I wouldn't know where to begin..."Iran is not a big threat"........"Iran is a grave threat".....

              "Bring the troops home in the first 180 days in office"......."I will make a decision on bringing them home based on what the commanders on the ground tell me"

              "We will not drill for oil"......."We may drill for oil".....

              "I can no more disown reverend wright then I can disown my grandmother"........."I have parted ways with reverend wright"





              What Obama said about tune ups and tire pressure is that the amount of oil that we could get from new drilling would be the same amount saved by taking care of our vehicles. His point was it is only that amount of energy, not that it is THE solution to the problem. The gas tax holiday is bs. The amount of money it would save the average family at the price peak is under $50.

              To some family's $50 means alot. Where is the proof or evidence that the amount of oil would be equal to the amount we could get from drilling.....That is BS.





              NO!! I don't believe it, that is my point! And you don't believe that Obama said he "wants to invade Pakistan"!! That is exactly my point. They are both misrepresentations of what they said. Yes, McCain said we may be in Iraq for the next 100 years, for just the reasons you stated. When libs act like he meant something else they are doing the same thing you are with the Pakistan statement.

              He did say he would go into Pakistan, those were his words

              To clarify why I put thew pic of Rumsfeld and Saddam was just to point out that politicians, even ones you yourself voted into office, will get in bed with nearly anyone if they have to. Both of these men were denounced when they were no longer needed. Again, I don't trust any of them.





              Eli

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                I can't bring myself to trust any media source to really inform me very quickly.

                Now you are truley on the path to enlightenment.

                Best thing in this entire thread is that I've finally found someone that types worse than me.

                This whole Georgia thing is politics at it's best. Putin testing the waters to see just how strong or weak the west's resolve is. This incident should serve as a wake up call to those that truley think Mr. Obama has either the resolve or the experiance to get in the middle of this. Somehow 140 days in the Senate and 11 years as a public advocate don't measure up with Mr McCains esperiance. Russia would like nothing better than to see Obama elected because they know he is an appeser an weak on foreign policy.
                sigpic

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                • #68
                  Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                  Dude. Please. Yes he said that he would go into Pakistan to fight terrorists and get Bin Laden if the Pakistani government continues to give them a safe haven by not doing what they say they will do. That is not saying he wants to invade Pakistan. I know you better than this too. I'm exhausted even typing this because WE ALL KNOW IT! It's a frickin straw man. You win, I wasted my time on it, now move the cape, yell "OLE!!" and lets get to the real issues.

                  You should be happy, Obama has moved in the direction you wanted on all of the issues you claim flip-flop. I am not happy. I don't like his reasoning or his decisions. Now you are complaining that he realizes how right you have been? So if he continued to disagree with you you'd like him better? Look, I get the point, it's political posturing, but no politician keeps their promises. They are all liars. Period.

                  To some families $50 is a lot, but in terms of fuel costs it is one tank of gas or one third of a tank for me. It is not a long term solution, or even a short term one. And the same hub-bub about oil companies passing the new taxes onto consumers is true about the holiday, the price will rise to what the market will bare.

                  I'm not even going to argue about the amount of fuel that would be saved by tuning our cars and keeping our tires filled. It was an anecdote not a platform for election. But if you really want to see proof I'm sure it is available online. If there was proof that it was wrong we would have heard about it on the radio a million times and you would have repeated it here on your Obama list a thousand.


                  Eli
                  A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                    Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                    Dude. Please. Yes he said that he would go into Pakistan to fight terrorists and get Bin Laden if the Pakistani government continues to give them a safe haven by not doing what they say they will do. That is not saying he wants to invade Pakistan. I know you better than this too. I'm exhausted even typing this because WE ALL KNOW IT! It's a frickin straw man. You win, I wasted my time on it, now move the cape, yell "OLE!!" and lets get to the real issues.

                    You should be happy, Obama has moved in the direction you wanted on all of the issues you claim flip-flop. I am not happy. I don't like his reasoning or his decisions. Now you are complaining that he realizes how right you have been? So if he continued to disagree with you you'd like him better? Look, I get the point, it's political posturing, but no politician keeps their promises. They are all liars. Period.

                    To some families $50 is a lot, but in terms of fuel costs it is one tank of gas or one third of a tank for me. It is not a long term solution, or even a short term one. And the same hub-bub about oil companies passing the new taxes onto consumers is true about the holiday, the price will rise to what the market will bare.

                    I'm not even going to argue about the amount of fuel that would be saved by tuning our cars and keeping our tires filled. It was an anecdote not a platform for election. But if you really want to see proof I'm sure it is available online. If there was proof that it was wrong we would have heard about it on the radio a million times and you would have repeated it here on your Obama list a thousand.


                    Eli
                    I really would rather see the man stick to what he believes in, whatever the hell that may be.

                    Gas tax holiday = TEMPORARY not permenant

                    The man said he doesnt have an issue with high cost of fuel, but how fast it went up. So obviously he is ok with the price. Lets see how you spin that one too.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                      U. S. has got 4 billion invested in that piece of pipe

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                        Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                        You are right again. I think when Obama claimed that McCain was saying he didn't look like a president because he is black it was an out and out falsehood and exactly the same kind of crap I am talking about. I don't give him a free pass for it at all. He lost a lot of credibility at that moment.

                        I don't think there can be a discussion on race by politicians running for president. I shudder at the thought to be honest. I guess what I was hoping his point was, and what my point is is that not talking about it honestly but still trying to pin people with racial hatred when they break any eggshell rule is not productive. If we use the false context that denies the wide spectrum of prejudice that exists means those gotcha moments are vapor. Call Obama on playing the race card against McCain and I'll agree, but acting like it hurts your feelings that he suggested old white women are afraid of black men is bogus. Both my grandmas harbor prejudice just like what he is talking about. It may very well be typical, and if it isn't, but that is his experience so what? Even if he didn't say it on the radio it would still be true.

                        But I know that is idealistic and not realistic in politics.

                        Call people on the politics of race, giving it back to them in kind doesn't help IMO. Someone has to take the high road sometime. I hope?


                        Eli
                        Well let's look at the statement and try and figure out what he meant. At the same time let's remember he used almost the same words earlier in the primary but used the word black instead of referring to past Presidents. Now consider the three people to have been featured on the dollar bill were Salmon Chase, George Washington and Martha Washington none of which look like "they". If Obama says "they" are going to tell you I don't look like them shouldn't "they" look like them? All three of the people on the dollar bill were clean shaven and one was a women. "They" too are clean shaven so then you have to wonder if in fact Obama did not play the race card with his comment.

                        Senior Advisor Robert Gibbs was quick to point out there was not an racial reference to Obama's comments.

                        http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...-camp-coz.html

                        However, chief strategist, David Axelrod admitted that in fact there was a racial element to the comment.

                        http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/S...5495348&page=1

                        And then finally Obama admitted that there was a racial "dimension" to his comment.

                        http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...-concedes.html

                        So now the question is who are you going to believe McCain, Obama and Axelrod or Gibbs?

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                          Originally posted by woodenstickers View Post
                          Dude. Please. Yes he said that he would go into Pakistan to fight terrorists and get Bin Laden if the Pakistani government continues to give them a safe haven by not doing what they say they will do. That is not saying he wants to invade Pakistan. I know you better than this too. I'm exhausted even typing this because WE ALL KNOW IT! It's a frickin straw man. You win, I wasted my time on it, now move the cape, yell "OLE!!" and lets get to the real issues.

                          You should be happy, Obama has moved in the direction you wanted on all of the issues you claim flip-flop. I am not happy. I don't like his reasoning or his decisions. Now you are complaining that he realizes how right you have been? So if he continued to disagree with you you'd like him better? Look, I get the point, it's political posturing,but no politician keeps their promises. They are all liars. Period.

                          To some families $50 is a lot, but in terms of fuel costs it is one tank of gas or one third of a tank for me. It is not a long term solution, or even a short term one. And the same hub-bub about oil companies passing the new taxes onto consumers is true about the holiday, the price will rise to what the market will bare.

                          I'm not even going to argue about the amount of fuel that would be saved by tuning our cars and keeping our tires filled. It was an anecdote not a platform for election. But if you really want to see proof I'm sure it is available online. If there was proof that it was wrong we would have heard about it on the radio a million times and you would have repeated it here on your Obama list a thousand.


                          Eli
                          Full circle.
                          Thats why McCain gets my vote.
                          We can go round and round, over and over debating which guy said the most appealing thing, he said she said, or whodunnit and ran.
                          In the end it's the track record I'm looking at.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                            Full circle.
                            Thats why McCain gets my vote.
                            We can go round and round, over and over debating which guy said the most appealing thing, he said she said, or whodunnit and ran.
                            In the end it's the track record I'm looking at.
                            Consider as well each candidates position with their parties. McCain is often in trouble because he is at odds with the majority while Obama is the class star because he goes along with everything. I don't like a lot of what McCain stands for but like his mother I will hold my nose and vote for him.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              Consider as well each candidates position with their parties. McCain is often in trouble because he is at odds with the majority while Obama is the class star because he goes along with everything. I don't like a lot of what McCain stands for but like his mother I will hold my nose and vote for him.

                              Mark
                              Confronted by the fact that most third world countries harbor such hatred for Americans and feel we're soft, so many that have begun to play that card as a tool for their own gain (how many more countries will threaten with nukes or WMD's for some form of leverage?).

                              I think right now our future hinges on decisions that may not be popular or desireable (Troops in Iraq for example).

                              I just don't see Obama handling any of it, at least not with his real track record in politics to date.

                              I think in the global perspective, it may be time to spank the kids.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Russia / Georgian conflict

                                Oh yeah, France was in on the deal too.

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