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  • #16
    Re: CEO Compensation???

    Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
    It is quite obvious you were not alive during the last depression. I don't like the idea of a bailout either, but I like the prospect of going through the things I lived through as a little kid even less.
    With the last generation or two at the wheel I just don't see it happening the same way. I work at a mall now, selling big ticket items. Have not seen the parking lot empty yet or (knock on wood) had any decrease in sales yet. Here's my uninformed guess as to why.

    We are spoiled. And the economy, as stated before has more to do with intangibles like perception and fear than actual numbers. We are too dumb to be as scared as we should be, which may turn out to be better than being dumb enough to be too scared. Folks are still taking out credit and getting the $4,000 bed instead of the $1,500 bed because they want it and have yet to face a day where they don't buy whatever they want. This mentality, while what got us into this mess may be what keeps us from sinking because of it.

    ...maybe?


    Case in point, a woman who, on credit, bought a tempupedic mattress from me yesterday at a clearance price because tempurpedic is updating the color of the fabric on the cover of the new model--nothing else--and saved several hundred dollars because of this. Just now my manager called and told me she today decided to get the newer model for a few hundred more. Because she wants the newer color. That she hasn't even seen. But it is newer. And a few hundred dollars more. She knows it is the same bed. And that she will put sheets on it. But it is the newer color.


    What sucks about this for me is I lost a LOT of commission on this because we are trying to get rid of the leftover stock of the older color. Guess I'll have to look into getting the less fancy lap-top I am in the market for...unless I can get 0% for 12 months......



    Eli
    Last edited by woodenstickers; 10-01-2008, 07:12 PM.
    A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

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    • #17
      Re: CEO Compensation???

      You're right. I wasn't alive. This is different though. It's nowhere near the same level as the stock market crash, BUT, panic could easily take over facilitating more "bad decisions" bringing a catastrophe certainly closer.

      What, every time something like this happens, were supposed to rely on the government to get us out? I think not.

      This whole ordeal began with The creation of CRA law back in 1977 when the feds relaxed the regulations on lending to low income families, commercial loans to small business etc. So when the real estate bubbled, everyone wanted to get in on it regardless of their ability to repay. In reality, this a government created problem. And as usual, the people are looking for a government solution. Bad idea. A bailout or rescue plan is not the answer to solve this problem. As I said, it'll be rough, but we need to allow those companies/banks to be flushed from the system.

      We've been on an artificially inflated real estate market for a good while now. It's time to get back to reality.
      people panicking, making desperate pleas for the government to do something is whats going to screw things up bad.
      Not to worry. There's not going to be another depression. Too many things are in place to allow for a full blown depression. Not single person that knows what they're talking about has even uttered the word depression.

      Unless you had investments tied up in any of the lenders in question, there's no reason to worry. Turn the media propaganda off and go about your business. Contrary to what's being reported, credit is IS still being approved and will continue to be albeit, much more cautiously and with more scrutiny.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: CEO Compensation???

        Originally posted by Twicepipes View Post
        Geezus. Doom and gloom. The entire economic system is not gonna fail because of this nor because we don't bailout the banks. Where are you getting this from?
        Yeah, it affects other markets inevitably and yeah it's going to be a rough ride either way, but the whole economic system isn't going to fall into depression. Sheesh. Panic and fear however will do far more harm. The market will eventually correct itself. Let that be the factor and not the government or anything else. This mentality of "we gotta do something" is rampant.
        I see your logic, the facts you laid out make perfect sense, the economy will just reset itself like magic, I'm convinced.

        Just like the odds that a small handful of third world wack jobs could never concoct a plan to drop the world trade center...it just can't happen cause this is America.

        In America, everything just falls in place...the great depression could NEVER happen again, just because...this is America...thats why.

        Ask yourself one simple question...
        If you and I are soooo smart that we are soooo sure the economy is gonna be just dandy...WHY are some the finest minds in the world of economy worried?

        I'm not at all into fear mongering or sensationalizing, but we're getting awfully complacent in this country, awfully.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: CEO Compensation???

          Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
          It is quite obvious you were not alive during the last depression. I don't like the idea of a bailout either, but I like the prospect of going through the things I lived through as a little kid even less.
          I grew up with the stories, I learned to live under that frame of mind.

          Part of me almost wonders if maybe the young generation deserves to go through it...like a wake up call.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: CEO Compensation???

            Originally posted by Twicepipes View Post
            Unless you had investments tied up in any of the lenders in question, there's no reason to worry. Turn the media propaganda off and go about your business. Contrary to what's being reported, credit is IS still being approved and will continue to be albeit, much more cautiously and with more scrutiny.
            Not looking for a peeing contest with you, but in another forum exclusively for trade contractors, there's a list of pro's that have come forward to say their suppliers have decreased credit, or completely cut them off altogether.
            This is real.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: CEO Compensation???

              Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
              It is quite obvious you were not alive during the last depression. I don't like the idea of a bailout either, but I like the prospect of going through the things I lived through as a little kid even less.
              I wasn't alive during the depression, but there are two assumptions you are making:
              (1) Without the bailout there will be a depression.
              (2) With the bailout there won't be a depression.

              I am not convinced of either of these assumptions.

              Also, I just flat out don't believe that we need to do this "now"; and that the markets can't survive while there is a considered debate about this. Making fundamental changes to our system with only a weeks worth of debate seems unwise to me.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: CEO Compensation???

                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                Not looking for a peeing contest with you, but in another forum exclusively for trade contractors, there's a list of pro's that have come forward to say their suppliers have decreased credit, or completely cut them off altogether.
                This is real.
                I agree.

                The good credit will survive. The new/slow/overdrawn/bad credit will not.

                Cash/equity will be king. The rest, not so much.

                CNN just said the deal is on the way for final approval.

                As they say at the racetrack, "The fix is in."

                Or is that the casino/dogfight/illegal poker game....etc. Or does it really matter?

                Econonmists are expecting the worst Christmas retail season in 17 years.

                In January or February, the bailout might be as effective as putting a bandaid on third-degree burns...........
                I'm on "The List" and I love it!!

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                • #23
                  Re: CEO Compensation???

                  Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                  I'm not at all into fear mongering or sensationalizing, but we're getting awfully complacent in this country, awfully.
                  I fully agree with you here.

                  Here's something to gnaw on:

                  To the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate:

                  As economists, we want to express to Congress our great concern for the plan proposed by Treasury Secretary Paulson to deal with the financial crisis. We are well aware of the difficulty of the current financial situation and we agree with the need for bold action to ensure that the financial system continues to function. We see three fatal pitfalls in the currently proposed plan:

                  1) Its fairness. The plan is a subsidy to investors at taxpayers’ expense. Investors who took risks to earn profits must also bear the losses. Not every business failure carries systemic risk. The government can ensure a well-functioning financial industry, able to make new loans to creditworthy borrowers, without bailing out particular investors and institutions whose choices proved unwise.

                  2) Its ambiguity. Neither the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear. If taxpayers are to buy illiquid and opaque assets from troubled sellers, the terms, occasions, and methods of such purchases must be crystal clear ahead of time and carefully monitored afterwards.

                  3) Its long-term effects. If the plan is enacted, its effects will be with us for a generation. For all their recent troubles, America's dynamic and innovative private capital markets have brought the nation unparalleled prosperity. Fundamentally weakening those markets in order to calm short-run disruptions is desperately short-sighted.

                  For these reasons we ask Congress not to rush, to hold appropriate hearings, and to carefully consider the right course of action, and to wisely determine the future of the financial industry and the U.S. economy for years to come.


                  Signed (updated at 9/25/2008 8:30AM CT)

                  Acemoglu Daron (Massachussets Institute of Technology)
                  Adler Michael (Columbia University)
                  Admati Anat R. (Stanford University)
                  Alexis Marcus (Northwestern University)
                  Alvarez Fernando (University of Chicago)
                  Andersen Torben (Northwestern University)
                  Baliga Sandeep (Northwestern University)
                  Banerjee Abhijit V. (Massachussets Institute of Technology)
                  Barankay Iwan (University of Pennsylvania)
                  Barry Brian (University of Chicago)
                  Bartkus James R. (Xavier University of Louisiana)
                  Becker Charles M. (Duke University)
                  Becker Robert A. (Indiana University)
                  Beim David (Columbia University)
                  Berk Jonathan (Stanford University)
                  Bisin Alberto (New York University)
                  Bittlingmayer George (University of Kansas)
                  Boldrin Michele (Washington University)
                  Brooks Taggert J.. (University of Wisconsin)
                  Brynjolfsson Erik (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)
                  Buera Francisco J. (UCLA)
                  Camp Mary Elizabeth (Indiana University)
                  Carmel Jonathan (University of Michigan)
                  Carroll Christopher (Johns Hopkins University)
                  Cassar Gavin (University of Pennsylvania)
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                  Fox Jeremy T. (University of Chicago)
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                  Lott John R. Jr. (University of Maryland)
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                  • #24
                    Re: CEO Compensation???

                    Originally posted by Masterplumb
                    I believe that there must be some kind of "bailout". I think a loan would be better then a bailout though.I also believe that if nothing is done the markets will work itself out, but I think the road to recovery is far away.

                    If the banks don't have the money to lend what will happen to the auto industry? How many people can pay for a new car in cash? What about the c.c. companies? If they dont have money to lend how many people can pay for things up front? How will they pay for that new boiler install?Every industry is affected when the banks refuse to lend money. It will trickle down and hurt everyone in some way or another.
                    Exactly.

                    Originally posted by Twicepipes View Post
                    I fully agree with you here.

                    Here's something to gnaw on:
                    This is old news, nothing at all that I didn't agree with...in fact I even posted here after they shot it down that it was probably a good idea to not just jump on it without scrutiny, in fact, thats why I posted this thread in the first place...fear that responsible parties were going to get a "get out of jail" card in the shuffle.

                    I also think even this new plan may have been done a bit in haste, but the signs are starting to show and time is running out.

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                    • #25
                      Re: CEO Compensation???

                      George Bernard Shaw:
                      "We learn from history that we learn nothing from history."

                      and

                      George Santayana:
                      "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

                      Nuf said,
                      Jim

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: CEO Compensation???

                        Originally posted by Twicepipes View Post
                        I fully agree with you here.

                        Here's something to gnaw on:
                        I notice that all of the signers are from one University or the other. Did you ever stop to think that those people never worked an actual job. They graduated from high school, college, graduate school and went to work in the U. Some how, I fail to see how they became experts.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: CEO Compensation???

                          Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                          I notice that all of the signers are from one University or the other. Did you ever stop to think that those people never worked an actual job. They graduated from high school, college, graduate school and went to work in the U. Some how, I fail to see how they became experts.
                          The corollary is that all the Wall Street economists have something to personally gain from the bailout.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: CEO Compensation???

                            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                            Not looking for a peeing contest with you, but in another forum exclusively for trade contractors, there's a list of pro's that have come forward to say their suppliers have decreased credit, or completely cut them off altogether.
                            This is real.
                            Well duh. For the big credit borrowers that's probably true. That's because the banks are waiting to get bailed out with this bill, so their holding back credit till it gets passed. Their just waiting for the US treasury open up the piggy bank. You don't have to be a member of any exclusive country club to know that.
                            MY supplier hasn't cut me off and nobody I know has had any credit issues.

                            Btw, have you seen the pork in this new version of the bill. Holy crap!!
                            95 million for the rum industry. WTF? Millions to NASCAR. WTF? Wooden arrows for children? WTF?
                            What pisses me off is we already voted NO! And what do they do? Bring back an even worse version. Our government working for us.
                            Everything aside, This move is the most obvious and largest step toward socialism this country has ever proposed. We've been making small steps toward it for many years but this is most blatant and You and I have to foot the bill. That's BS. Let em fail. If something major is on the horizon, so be it. Maybe this country needs a swift kick in the *** to get things back on track.
                            Last edited by Twicepipes; 10-03-2008, 11:47 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: CEO Compensation???

                              I agree with the last post. If we keep bailing out the rising water and don't bother to find the leaks we will eventually get too tired or broke to bail! There are sure plenty of leaks in our economy and by now most of us know what they are, and yet there doesn't seem to be a movement to correct them. Our U.S. dollars don't stay in our country very long like they once did, thanks to the trade deficit they are gone forever to all the countries that supply our needs. Our U.S. dollars paid by business owners and private individuals to illegals do not return to us in the form of taxes but are sent out of our country for ever.What lessons wil be learned by this bailout? Once the folks who could not pay their mortgages are given different terms, lower principles and naything else we, I mean our government can afford to do to keep them intheir homes, exactly what wil they have learned? Unless the crooked game is made honest and fair the results will be the same, may take a while for the money to run out but we will be right back to square one.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: CEO Compensation???

                                Originally posted by Twicepipes View Post
                                Well duh. For the big credit borrowers that's probably true. That's because the banks are waiting to get bailed out with this bill, so their holding back credit till it gets passed. Their just waiting for the US treasury open up the piggy bank. You don't have to be a member of any exclusive country club to know that.
                                MY supplier hasn't cut me off and nobody I know has had any credit issues.

                                Btw, have you seen the pork in this new version of the bill. Holy crap!!
                                95 million for the rum industry. WTF? Millions to NASCAR. WTF? Wooden arrows for children? WTF?
                                What pisses me off is we already voted NO! And what do they do? Bring back an even worse version. Our government working for us.
                                Everything aside, This move is the most obvious and largest step toward socialism this country has ever proposed. We've been making small steps toward it for many years but this is most blatant and You and I have to foot the bill. That's BS. Let em fail. If something major is on the horizon, so be it. Maybe this country needs a swift kick in the *** to get things back on track.
                                I color coded my replies:

                                -Yeah, WTF sums it...NO debate, it's so bizarre I have to ask what the rationale is?

                                - I truly hope your wrong. (I have to think you hope so too)

                                - I agree, partly wondering if there isn't a strange irony in the fact that greed & unchecked capitalism has lead us down this road. (?)

                                - Though I'm sure it's a crock, taxpayers are (somehow) s'posed to reap the benefits of any gained interest on the loans the gov takes over.

                                - And...finally in response to your last:
                                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                                I grew up with the stories, I learned to live under that frame of mind.

                                Part of me almost wonders if maybe the young generation deserves to go through it...like a wake up call.

                                Comment

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