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  • #16
    Re: American Auto Industry

    Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
    Actually, nobody said anything to support greedy corporate manipulations of the market. Who/what are you talking about?
    I made that observation because there is an spoken upset regarding Unions causing the demise of businesses, but no one places blame or responsibility on the business leaders themselves. My specific reference was about GM and their EV1 electric car from back in the 90's . I have no doubt that if GM allowed the car to continue to be a success, that jobs would have been lost due to the decreased demand for parts and repairs. I believe GM's motivation was more corporate greed in the face of this car's success, so they took them all back and crushed them. Someone here mentioned greed by Union workers making $30.00 an hour but there is no talk about what corporate greed costs us. That is what I was referring to. I am not upset by tradespeople earning income to provide medical benefits and a certain standard of living for themselves and their families, so why do some tradespeople have such an upset for Union workers? Not every Union worker is dragging their feet and wasting money for their boss. I worked a physically demanding job in some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in NYC, and thannks to my Union I was fairly compensated. NYTel still made a profit.
    Last edited by Frankiarmz; 11-09-2008, 09:38 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: American Auto Industry

      BHD

      That micro pickup reminds me of the one in this video. Might it be one of them? The second video is a tiny 3 wheeler pickup. I would call it more a toy than a truck.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfyW8...eature=related

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaDCk...eature=related
      Last edited by Woussko; 11-09-2008, 10:34 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: American Auto Industry

        My brother owns one of these which has given us plenty of laughs.

        Mark
        Attached Files
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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        • #19
          Re: American Auto Industry

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          My brother owns one of these which has given us plenty of laughs.

          Mark
          That looks smaller than the smart car! Saw a smart car drive by my house today, scary small.

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          • #20
            Re: American Auto Industry

            Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
            Here's my theory: the american consumer is tired of paying for crap with an american name and patriotism is going by the wayside in place of well built forigen named(american made) vehicles. Here's my suggestion, have the big 3 make a well built car at the same price of toyota or honda and the public will buy them. It's not rocket science, they hope that people will buy their vehicles because of consumer loyalty. This is capitalism at it's best.
            I bought a Honda Accord, and I consider it just as American as a Chevy. It is assembled in Ohio with an American engine and transmission. I could buy shares of Honda, a Japanese man can buy shares of GM. The country that has the headquarters is meaningless to me (at least from a purchasing decision), though I did make a point to get a car built in the USA this time.

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            • #21
              Re: American Auto Industry

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              I agree that Unions do their best to keep workers working however they can, which is not always in the best interest of the industry.
              I don't think you can really fault the unions for trying to get a better deal for their workers, but you can fault Ford, GM, and Chrysler executives for saying yes to the demands; taking a short-sighted view and agreeing to things that were unsustainable.

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              • #22
                Re: American Auto Industry

                Originally posted by cpw View Post
                I don't think you can really fault the unions for trying to get a better deal for their workers, but you can fault Ford, GM, and Chrysler executives for saying yes to the demands; taking a short-sighted view and agreeing to things that were unsustainable.
                Makes me wonder what they were thinking? Seems things are so far gone at this point, that other options should be explored. What's the sense of handing over billions of dollars to bailout an industry that could not sustain itself? Is there any chance of getting some of that bailout money back from the banks that refuse to make reasonable loans? They were not given that money to balance their books but rather to build confidence and stimulate business. I still think some kind of impartial commisson should have reviewed the bailout requests and not the legislators.

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                • #23
                  Re: American Auto Industry

                  Originally posted by tinmack View Post
                  I'm gonna take the conspiracy theory route here and note that the big car makers could be making more fuel efficient vehicles at a cheaper price, but they just don't want to.

                  We haven't seen a change in fuel efficiency since 1985. If you do want better, with a hybrid, it's cost prohibitive unless you drive 30000 or more miles a year.
                  GM and Ford have been simultaneously building cheap efficient cars for europeean and foreign markets for many many years. Remember gas has been more expensive in other parts of the world for decades than the highest we've ever seen on this side. The detail is they don't sell them here because no one wanted them. They were perfectly happy to keep making a quick buck selling F-150's to ever bother bringing them over and do the necessary marketing. I believe there is no one more to blame than consumers and car companies total lack of foresight in order to make a quick buck. It's easy to look back and complain they did little to improve efficiency. It seems to me that 10 years ago when companies like Toyota or Honda started investing insane and seemingly unecessary amounts of money in hybrids and ultra fuel efficiency they were basically laughed at for trying to make cars for tree huggers.

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                  • #24
                    Re: American Auto Industry

                    Originally posted by BHD View Post

                    this is why I wonder if there jsut Urban legends, is if the product was ever patented it would be in the Paten office and you and I could currently look it up the Paten's would have expired and basically there open to all to use.
                    The thing is if there were such devices and conspiracies, right about now is the time automakers would be saying to hell with it and breaking them out. With these companies struggling for survival it would make no sense to be investing billions in efficiency R&D if the technology already existed. If such technology existed a lot of their financial problems would have been instantly solved.

                    second, I do not see the Japanese, or Europe, or Asia, or Chinese, making cars or trucks that are exceptional at there fuel mileage, (yes my BIL, bought a Japanese pickup that gets 40+ mph, but it is basically a golf cart, and is not even road legal and is registered as a four wheeler, for legal use in the US, it is not a pickup/truck as we think of one)
                    and some countries do not have there hands tied by a EPA, I think if there was a good way of getting gas mileage from a "full size" unit they would be doing it some where now. (maybe not in the USA) but some where, I think they would, I can not believe ever where there is a conspiracy between the oil companies and the auto industry,
                    Depends on what size vehicle you refer to. There certainly are many euro and foreign vehicles that do over 40mpg and meet similar standards. If you consider diesel cars there are a bunch in the 60 to 70mpg range. The only thing is they wont be full size cars or trucks. Something more along the lines of civic or hatchback sized.

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                    • #25
                      Re: American Auto Industry

                      Ford does not have good business sense. They have a car out in britain right now that gets 63 mpg (diesel) but they won't bring it to the US because they say there's no market for it.
                      Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                      • #26
                        Re: American Auto Industry

                        A word on the economic hybrids and plugins, we are still sharing our roads with plenty of Suvs's Ford Excursions, Chevy Sububans, etc. While the tiny cars are economical , they are dead meat in a clash with one of the big vehicles. Something to consider.

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                        • #27
                          Re: American Auto Industry

                          Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                          Ford does not have good business sense. They have a car out in britain right now that gets 63 mpg (diesel) but they won't bring it to the US because they say there's no market for it.
                          Many of the most desirable efficient cars in europe now are either Ford, or based on Fords (Volvo, Mazda, Peugeot). They are actually doing rather well over there and are investing quite succesfully in things like rally racing to really promote them.

                          http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...59.html?page=4

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          A word on the economic hybrids and plugins, we are still sharing our roads with plenty of Suvs's Ford Excursions, Chevy Sububans, etc. While the tiny cars are economical , they are dead meat in a clash with one of the big vehicles. Something to consider.
                          There's always that danger, in a crash the lighter vehicle is usually at a disadvantage, but you need to start somewhere. If someone is waiting for 40mpg 5000 pound cars they should be prepared to continue paying a lot for gas. Only a small percent of fatalities are actually caused it such collisions though. The biggest problem tends to be vehicle incompatibility such as higher riding SUV's with taller bumpers. The trend now is for lower riding type SUV's which are more compatible with cars so weight disparities become less of a concern since cars will be hit in their crash zones rather than above them. I'm trying to find the link but I found the statistics from the IIHS for the latest years which showed fatality rates were practically even among all types of vehicles per 100,000 of each kind since the vast majority of deaths are caused by single vehicle accidents.

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                          • #28
                            Re: American Auto Industry

                            The micro BHD has is the pickup version of my van in the Philippines.They get great mileage but I'd sure hate to get in a wreck with one on a freeway.Its a beer can with wheels.I read an article awhile back that it was motor trend magazine in england delev van of the year a few years back.I really do not like driving mine over about 45mph on a highway.Id guess its mileage at over 40mpg when I drive it sanely,I've never checked it.I just put in the equal of 10 bucks of gas about every 3 trips to town an back.The equal of 20 bucks fills its tank there.Gas is about equal in price there as here.
                            The new version is 1100cc the old version like I have is 650cc.I doubt even the new much improved version would pass any highway saftey standards here.Ive seen the new version in person and they are much nicer.
                            Sam

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                            • #29
                              Re: American Auto Industry

                              Our ferderal government in Australia has just bailed out our two major car makers GM and Ford so we are all in the same boat and we are all to blame we haven`t given a stuff until petrol started to get over that magical price.
                              We had the opec shock in the seventies when petrol prices went through what we considered the roof and they looked at electric and every other fuel but then over the next twenty years petrol prices fell down again and we encouraged Ford and GM to built thoughs f-100`s and 150`s and suv`s and all thoughs V8`s and now we are back where we started all thoughs years ago with high fuel prices but the differance is petrol is really running out and Ford and GM have been left behind the Japanese with toyota, mazda, honda etc and the other Asian countries are so far in front with their fuel efficient well designed smaller built cars.
                              So don`t look any further than yourselves for the demise of your local car industry blame yourselves as we are the ones that caused it.

                              Tony

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                              • #30
                                Re: American Auto Industry

                                Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                                Ford does not have good business sense. They have a car out in britain right now that gets 63 mpg (diesel) but they won't bring it to the US because they say there's no market for it.
                                I'd bet there is a good reason related to emissions standards. Europe is much more lax than the US about that, even though they would have you believe that we are the ones who don't "care" about the environment.

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