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American Auto Industry

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  • #31
    Re: American Auto Industry

    FWIW,
    I was at the Milwaukee auto show in 1968 or 69, and saw one of the experimental carbs that got high mileage on a V-8 engine. It was called a VVC, for Vario Venturi Carburetor. It was perfectly square and bolted onto the top of the intake plenum where a regular quad would go. The thing looked like it was done in anodized aluminum with a dull red finish to it. It worked by changing the size of the venturi as the gas pedal was depressed. It was the only time I ever saw one and right after debut, the darn thing disappeared. There were a number of these being talked about at the time, so whether they are all urban legends, I could not say, but this one sure looked like it was complete and in all three dimensions when I saw it, and yes, the car did run.
    Jim Don

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    • #32
      Re: American Auto Industry

      On that VVC:


      Variable venturi carburetor
      Document Type and Number:
      United States Patent No. 4088715
      Abstract:
      A variable venturi carburetor is described that functions in relation to an internal combustion engine to deliver a homogenous mixture of hydrocarbon fuel and air to the engine cylinders in response to vacuum pressure created through the cylinders. The carburetor includes axially movable venturi members for effectively changing the air volume entering through the primary air duct. Provision is made for maintaining a preselected volume of raw fuel available in a reservoir for instantaneous delivery in response to demand created through various throttle opening conditions. In addition to this feature, I provide mechanism by which the air-fuel ratio is appropriately adjusted automatically in response to changing throttle positions. This is done by changing the "head" or distance from the fuel reservoir level to the fuel outlet orifice, thereby changing the pressure requirements for drawing the fuel from the reservoir to the outlet orifice. A further provision is made in the form of a barometric sensing device that is operatively connected to the carburetor in order to automatically vary the air-fuel ratio in response to varying air pressure conditions at various altitudes.

      Cheers,
      Jim Don

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: American Auto Industry

        Originally posted by cpw View Post
        I'd bet there is a good reason related to emissions standards. Europe is much more lax than the US about that, even though they would have you believe that we are the ones who don't "care" about the environment.
        Not exactly, Europes standards are just different, not more lax. They have different regulations in the limits for different types of pallutants so cars here would probably not meet regulations there either.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: American Auto Industry

          Originally posted by JimDon View Post
          FWIW,
          I was at the Milwaukee auto show in 1968 or 69, and saw one of the experimental carbs that got high mileage on a V-8 engine. It was called a VVC, for Vario Venturi Carburetor. It was perfectly square and bolted onto the top of the intake plenum where a regular quad would go. The thing looked like it was done in anodized aluminum with a dull red finish to it. It worked by changing the size of the venturi as the gas pedal was depressed. It was the only time I ever saw one and right after debut, the darn thing disappeared. There were a number of these being talked about at the time, so whether they are all urban legends, I could not say, but this one sure looked like it was complete and in all three dimensions when I saw it, and yes, the car did run.
          Jim Don
          I've read about that carb but I don't know I'd say it dissapeared. The vario venturi type of carb was very popular in many cars in the UK for most of the last century. Ford apparently had their own variation on it but eventually retired it because it was problematic. Judging by the description I see nothing that would indicate this thing would have any significant impact on fuel efficiency. What it did can now be done a lot more acurately by fuel injection. I think any claims of this thing giving incredible mileage might have been due to flawed testing methodology rather than anything else. Even to this day there is a lot of disagreement on what is the correct way to measure mileage since there are so many factors that can give completely different results.
          Last edited by Velosapien; 11-10-2008, 12:53 PM.

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          • #35
            Re: American Auto Industry

            If this is it, doesn't look like there is any secret to it. Simply looks like the Ford variation was extremely troublesome.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU_carburetor

            http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm


            http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/12...arburetor.html

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: American Auto Industry

              Originally posted by cpw View Post
              I'd bet there is a good reason related to emissions standards. Europe is much more lax than the US about that, even though they would have you believe that we are the ones who don't "care" about the environment.
              I read an article where the chairman of Ford was interviewed about the car and the sole reason why it's not sold in the states is because Ford thinks there's no market for disial(you know what I mean). The european manufactors have taken the exact opposite approach and devoted a large part of their R&D money to diseals.

              As far as the unions and super carb goes, that's sidestepping the issue. The big 3 could pay their employes sweat shop wage and they would still go under. The public is tired of paying for a crappy product pure and simple. Myself as a consumer does not care about auto manfucators working conditions, wages or any of that. What I care about is 1 thing and 1 thing only; is this car I'm paying 25-30k for break in the next 5 years?

              I'm not mentioning safety because by in large, the majority of cars today are very safe. The gas mileage is of no concern because it's a personal choice to drive a gas guzzler. What do you want? Great mpg or horsepower? You're not getting both. Quality vehicles is what's seperating the manufactors at this point and the big 3 are losing very badly.
              Buy cheap, buy twice.

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              • #37
                Re: American Auto Industry

                When I was in college in Detroit in the 70s I can remember seeing some X (experimental) cars on the streets.
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                • #38
                  Re: American Auto Industry

                  "As I understand it, most auto workers make $30 an hour. If this is true their own greed among other things are causing their demise."

                  Hmmm, what do you call it when a drain cleaner hands you a bill for $180 for fifteen minutes work?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: American Auto Industry

                    Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                    "As I understand it, most auto workers make $30 an hour. If this is true their own greed among other things are causing their demise."

                    Hmmm, what do you call it when a drain cleaner hands you a bill for $180 for fifteen minutes work?
                    Good point. Some folks assume all auto workers are goofing off and living high on $30 and hour, not true. Thanks for the observation.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: American Auto Industry

                      Originally posted by Velosapien View Post
                      If this is it, doesn't look like there is any secret to it. Simply looks like the Ford variation was extremely troublesome.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU_carburetor
                      I've got a pair of those. No way do I get great mileage. Maybe mid/high-20s in an 1800 pound car built 50 years ago.

                      Concerning the comment that it isn't safe to drive small cars with SUVs and pickups out there. We've got to start doing it if we're going to reduce the average size car. I think that's just an excuse to keep large, comfortable, "safe" cars. I've driven mostly small cars, motorcycles, and now scooters my whole life and never felt threatened by large vehicles. In 40 years of driving, I never had a car over two liters displacement until this last spring. My 1500cc '81 Twin-Stick Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi Mirage) got almost 50 MPG, and my friend with an identical car regularly got over 50 MPG.
                      Steve
                      www.MorrisGarage.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: American Auto Industry

                        I agree with Steve although I think I am more aware of SUVs and trucks while I am on a motorcycle I don't really worry about the size difference.

                        As far as mileage goes my 96 Lincoln Towncar had a 4.6 in it and I consistently got 20 mpg. It seems if a big car can do that a mid size should do much better.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: American Auto Industry

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          Good point. Some folks assume all auto workers are goofing off and living high on $30 and hour, not true. Thanks for the observation.
                          My buddy used to be on the assembly line at a Ford plant. His back isn't the best because of it and he's only 24 years old. I think he might of installed transmissions or something, not sure.

                          All I know is doing the same EXACT thing day in and day out, it could make someone get bored of their job fairly quick and possibly cause insanity. $30/hour is a good wage, plus you get benefits and everything on top of that, but I don't see it as being overpaid or anything like that.
                          YourHomeContractor.com - The Trusted Online Community For Homeowners and Contractors.

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                          • #43
                            Re: American Auto Industry

                            Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                            "As I understand it, most auto workers make $30 an hour. If this is true their own greed among other things are causing their demise."

                            Hmmm, what do you call it when a drain cleaner hands you a bill for $180 for fifteen minutes work?
                            An auto workers doesn't have to supply his own tools, insurance, or any other overhead. After all is said and done, the plumber might see 20-40 of that 180.

                            I know what you meant though.
                            Buy cheap, buy twice.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: American Auto Industry

                              To me theres blame on all sides in the auto industry.I drive an 86 ford diesel a friend drives a 06 both get nearly the same mpg.It should have improved quite a bit but they didn't bother to make that happen.The workers should have been more open to more automation on the line and the company should have had more retraining programs.The buyers should have insisted more on mpg and quality,as should have management and workers.As 1 said we've become a throw away society,personally I do my best not to get into that syndrome.
                              Theres no reason a quality built car should be replaced every 4 years but thats what many do just to have new.My last truck I had over 300k miles on it, same with the 1 before it ,this 1 while its an 86 still only has 160k on it.
                              While I'm against the basic idea of rescuing the big 3 I don't see as theres much choise as if they go itll take out other businesses far beyond the auto industry.On the other hand the tax payers should get a big share of ownership that can be sold years down the road.And take away those huge bonuses for sure.Management failed and failure shouldn't be rewarded as part of the bailout.
                              Any way you cut it the auto industry in the states is in for a huge change and reduction in workers.
                              Sam

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                              • #45
                                Re: American Auto Industry

                                545 People
                                by Charley Reese

                                Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

                                Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

                                Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

                                You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

                                You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

                                You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does.

                                You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does.

                                You and I don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does.

                                One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices. 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

                                I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

                                I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

                                Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

                                What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

                                The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

                                It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

                                If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

                                If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

                                If the Army & Marines are in Iraq, it's because they want them in Iraq.

                                If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

                                There are no insoluble government problems.

                                Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like 'the economy,' 'inflation,' or 'politics' that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

                                Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

                                They, and they alone, have the power.

                                They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses, provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

                                We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

                                (Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.)
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