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  • Beliefs in Suicide

    In another forum I asked this also, the reason I ask is because I was sitting around this morning thinking of someone that was close to me (still is) a few years back and he took his own life in order to stop the pain that he was going through. And this person was a strong Christian, but not that strong to keep going thru his pains...

    Religion is extremely important to many and Christianity says no suicides or you cannot go to heaven, if I recall correctly. I don't know squat about all of the other Religion. But the one I believe in, if your already dying, you may go away peacefully and will be accepted in the spiritual world.

    Peacefully means, no harm to others, others accepts what your are going to do, you get my meaning I'm sure.

    Mass suicides are probably not accepted any where, because 1 person created the vision of their doings, which is wholeheartedly wrong in my belief and Religion.

    Sometimes, I feel as if Religion plays to much of a roll in suicides and frankly I feel that they just don't have the right to. I feel a person if dying has the right to do so. Is this wrong, does your belief or Religion play a strong role in such a thing?

    My beliefs are mine, before I played any kind of role in Religion, though my Religion is not strong, but it is something that I feel good about. I have had 4 friends and relatives that has committed suicide, I don't dishonor anyone of them, instead I respected their decision, maybe not right away, but as time goes by, I truly do see it w/open eyes and mind....

    I must also say, that I do not believe 100% in my Religion, but I also look at what other Religions has to say. My Religion that I grew up with is Lutheran, but I tend to believe in many other things. I would much rather die quickly, than to go through the agonizing pains of Cancer or other terminal diseases....

    Your thoughts on this would be appreciative.... I'm curious to see if my brain works in a screwball manner....
    Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

    http://www.contractorspub.com

    A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

  • #2
    Re: Beliefs in Suicide

    I think that you should certainly be allowed to withhold whatever treatment you want from yourself and slip away [I don't think we should deny people the benefit of enough pain killers to make them comatose]. It is less clear cut when you aren't going to just go away quickly and you need some active involvement. I am probably on the side of letting them chose to take their own life and end it. I hope I am never in the situation where I would have to personally choose.

    I think religion has a place to instruct here. I don't think saying "Christianity says" though is right. There are so many different branches, that using Christianity as a blanket statement is wrong. It is my personal belief that we each can read the scriptures, apply our own logical reasoning, and come to our own understanding on most things.

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    • #3
      Re: Beliefs in Suicide

      I understand a "do not resuscitate" but I think a suicide to avoid discomfort would be hard to take. Most religions find this wrong but to go beyond that I have seen too many people come back from horrible illnesses to enjoy many more years.

      My father suffered from bone cancer for about ten more years then he was suppose to. However, to see the happiness on his face when his first and then second great grand child were born showed why he lasted so long. To go beyond that my father had always been very secretive about his life before my mother. Once the great grand babies were born he opened up and chronicled his life to Brenda who documented all that he said. Had he decided to end it early he would have missed out on his great grand babies and we would have missed out on his early history.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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      • #4
        Re: Beliefs in Suicide

        I think it boils down to this: Our lives are not our own, they are a gift from God.
        Each life has a transcendent purpose to be fulfilled. We know this intuitively. Otherwise, why try to talk someone out of suicide? Why do we grieve when an infant dies, or children die in a plane crash or a drunk driver kills a mother and children in another car?
        We say things like “an untimely death”, or when a person commits suicide they, “wasted their life”. Why? Because we know deep inside that there is a higher purpose to fulfill beyond our own wants and desires.

        Our existence is not a thing we own, to do with as we please, but a sacred life we are entrusted with. The fifth commandment “You shall not murder” does not refer to a violation of personal liberties, that’s covered in the seventh commandment “You shall not steal”. Murder, including the murder of oneself, is a crime against God who created you in His own image

        But, we can rest in the assurance that God is eternally just and when your friend, and we, stand before God, the decisions we made and the deceptions we endured will all be weighed. I’m not saying we can earn our way into heaven. That entrance is opened only by a single decision to trust God and the salvation he provided in Christ.

        Of course, if one believes that he just evolved from a pool of slime and there is no God might as well whack himself and reduce the surface population of the earth. Right? No tragedy there because there is no purpose to be fulfilled. Eat, drink, and be merry for we all will die.
        "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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        • #5
          Re: Beliefs in Suicide

          Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
          I think it boils down to this: Our lives are not our own, they are a gift from God.
          Each life has a transcendent purpose to be fulfilled. We know this intuitively. Otherwise, why try to talk someone out of suicide? Why do we grieve when an infant dies, or children die in a plane crash or a drunk driver kills a mother and children in another car?
          We say things like “an untimely death”, or when a person commits suicide they, “wasted their life”. Why? Because we know deep inside that there is a higher purpose to fulfill beyond our own wants and desires.

          Our existence is not a thing we own, to do with as we please, but a sacred life we are entrusted with. The fifth commandment “You shall not murder” does not refer to a violation of personal liberties, that’s covered in the seventh commandment “You shall not steal”. Murder, including the murder of oneself, is a crime against God who created you in His own image

          But, we can rest in the assurance that God is eternally just and when your friend, and we, stand before God, the decisions we made and the deceptions we endured will all be weighed. I’m not saying we can earn our way into heaven. That entrance is opened only by a single decision to trust God and the salvation he provided in Christ.

          Of course, if one believes that he just evolved from a pool of slime and there is no God might as well whack himself and reduce the surface population of the earth. Right? No tragedy there because there is no purpose to be fulfilled. Eat, drink, and be merry for we all will die.
          Just maybe its not a God that they believe in, but something else that may be as equal to us, who created us. So is this to say, that all non believers of your God must follow and abide by your rules?

          I am not asking about believing in God, I'm asking is it OK to commit suicide when certain dreadful circumstances are there.

          I wholeheartedly understood what Mark was/is getting at, miracles and great ending can actually happen. But I'm afraid I would to say a much larger percentage, well it just doesn't end in a happy ending.

          I am not bringing this all up for an argument or to push my feelings onto someone elses. I would like to find/hear a reason to why people have the need to stop someone from dying, "who is dying and in great pain", or living life as a vegetable....
          Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

          http://www.contractorspub.com

          A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Beliefs in Suicide

            The belief I hold to which I would call christian, is that should put one life in Gods hands, and he the one who gives life and thus the one who takes life,

            This in my opinion has nothing to do with if you get to heaven or not, as the way I see scripture
            John 14:6 (New International Version) 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
            and
            John 10:28-29 (New International Version)
            28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

            and once one accepts the gift of salvation that Jesus gives is accepted by one self, one can not lose it and that includes the things we choose to do, that may not be in accordance to his will, (which is what I see classifies as sin), Jesus pay the penalty for that sin with his death on the cross, thus we do not have to pay the price for it which is eternal death. as the price has all ready been payed by Jesus.

            now I realise there are other view points out there and not wanting to start a religious debate, but that is how I see it,

            as far as one taking ones life,
            Death is a horrible thing it is the major punishment put on man kind for sin, (Adam and Eve in the garden),
            and we suffer from it with the aging and the sickness and illness and even the aspect of imperfections of our physical bodies, with that said,
            I some times have wondered my self if Modern medicine has gone to far the other way, in it ability to keep some ones body functioning, to draw out the death process from days to months and even years, (that in it self may not be Gods desire),
            My mother has a heart condition and had a new heat valve put in a few years ago, and now sits in a nursing home day after day after day, with a body that will hardly work, maybe God actually desired for he to come "home", back a few years ago, but our desire not see her die was possibly a curse to us and her.

            But the general thinking is that GOD will take you home when he is ready for you to come and one should not hurry the process, as a "Child of God" he still has some thing for you to do for him on this earth.
            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
            attributed to Samuel Johnson
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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            • #7
              Re: Beliefs in Suicide

              Garager, last year I had lost two friends to suicide. One was a single man who lived with a chronic, painful intestinal illness. He had no relationships and had trouble keeping his job and functioning and having any enjoyment from life. I did not realize how desperate he was and the medications did not help. The second man was married with two high school age children he was very proud of. He used to talk about his beautiful loving wife all the time, but the last time we spoke he said she wanted nothing further to do with him, they had no intimacy and he was heartbroken and alone. I thought he was just complaining as many of us do from time to time when we don't get as much lov'in as we would like. I was wrong and two weeks later he ended his life at age 51! I also convinced a person on the Internet to not commit suicide. This guy was in perfect health but saw no reason to prolong his life, grow old and then die. He said can anyone give me a none religious reason not to kill myself? I responded that suicide goes against nature and science, our very design is surrounded by instincts of survival. Try to hold your breath and you gasp for life giving air, do without water and you thirst, try and starve yourself and you crave for food. Face an attacker and you fight for your life! So by design we are meant to live. Personally I do believe assisted suicide should be an option for those who are terminally ill and have the clarity of thought to make such a choice. I have a tenant who lost his job several months ago and just gave up on life, threatening suicide several times. We had the police and paramedics here seven times! I have spoken to this man and made my best attempts to be supportive and encourage him to move forward in life. He is in good health, has credientials that would allow him to easily secure another job if he just trys. I think everyone has their own individual breaking point, and this must also be taken into consideration when discussing suicide. Sometimes proper counceling and medication can be a life saver. For me life is a journey and it consists of joys and heartbreaks, but it is a journey I want to see till the very end. I do believe in a God and I want to experience every moment this amazing opportunity affords me.

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              • #8
                Re: Beliefs in Suicide

                Originally posted by garager View Post
                Just maybe its not a God that they believe in, but something else that may be as equal to us, who created us. So is this to say, that all non believers of your God must follow and abide by your rules?

                I am not asking about believing in God, I'm asking is it OK to commit suicide when certain dreadful circumstances are there.

                I wholeheartedly understood what Mark was/is getting at, miracles and great ending can actually happen. But I'm afraid I would to say a much larger percentage, well it just doesn't end in a happy ending.

                I am not bringing this all up for an argument or to push my feelings onto someone elses. I would like to find/hear a reason to why people have the need to stop someone from dying, "who is dying and in great pain", or living life as a vegetable....

                Unless we also know how to create a human spirit,(not to mention a universe) then the One who created us must by definition be NOT our equal but greater , (infinitely) than us.
                If you want to to discuss right or wrong or "ok" then you must talk about the giver and definer of right and wrong.
                If there is no Higher (read Highest) moral being, then there is no right or wrong and it doesn't matter who, what, when, where, why or how.

                As to why someone would have the need to stop someone from ending their life: simply because they are created in His image and have a purpose here above just existing that should be fulfilled. Sometimes they just need to be told that.
                However, a body kept alive by mechanical means and the person has already checked out---let 'em go.
                "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                • #9
                  Re: Beliefs in Suicide

                  Wonderful way of putting/quoting it, BDH... Modern medicine has proven to extend our lives, do we give thanks to God for providing us with this kind of knowledge, to place ourselves in the path of God, can we start creating life on our own in the future.

                  This is a good day for lots of thinking to be done, for myself. Should I feel pity and meanness to those that killed themselves who I knew dearly, because they felt great pains and wanted to be released from that?

                  BDH, I'll probably read your post 5-6 times before the day ends. I've never read the bible, only parts of it. And to me, I can just about interpret most sentences to my own likings from what I have read. Could this be why the bible has been rewritten often????
                  Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                  http://www.contractorspub.com

                  A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Beliefs in Suicide

                    Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
                    Unless we also know how to create a human spirit,(not to mention a universe) then the One who created us must by definition be NOT our equal but greater , (infinitely) than us.
                    If you want to to discuss right or wrong or "ok" then you must talk about the giver and definer of right and wrong.
                    If there is no Higher (read Highest) moral being, then there is no right or wrong and it doesn't matter who, what, when, where, why or how.

                    As to why someone would have the need to stop someone from ending their life: simply because they are created in His image and have a purpose here above just existing that should be fulfilled. Sometimes they just need to be told that.
                    However, a body kept alive by mechanical means and the person has already checked out---let 'em go.
                    Nicely said also...
                    Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                    http://www.contractorspub.com

                    A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Beliefs in Suicide

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      So by design we are meant to live.
                      There you go.
                      "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                      • #12
                        Re: Beliefs in Suicide

                        I also think that when one ends there life they have taken some thing from those who are left, there family and those who knew them closely, and families that I know where that has happened, it seems to a worst loss than if death by some other means.

                        It is some what similar, to why people put up memorials where people have passed on when the circumstances have not been "normal" but I have yet to see a hospital that has cross put ever where and flowers and other memorabilia of those who have left there earthy existence while in that building, but I see them along side of the road, and at small airports and other where some one has lost there loved ones,

                        To directly answer you Garager, as a person I understand, (personally I hope I never have to find out how I would or will respond if I would be in that kind of condition), as from my beliefs I would have to say it not Gods desire, and thus it is wrong, but I do understand,
                        personally I do not have a fear of the after life, but the process of getting there is not I look foward to, and I hope for me I "wake up dead".

                        I can not say it is OK

                        For many Americans we look at life as a precious Gift given by God, even if our religious views are not strong,
                        when some ones life was taken in a robbery for a few dollars we say life is worth so much more, when a person is suffering many are upset at the insurance companies when they will not pay for million dollar experimental procedures, we have systems in this country to keep the aged and elderly living for many many years, and if left on there own or even in there own families care there lives would not be as long, this country many times spends more than Half of all the medical expenditures or more on the care of a dieing person, as in there life time.

                        We as a country value life and most think that all persons lives are valuable. take the Karen Ann Quinlan case for an example.

                        look at how many in this country view the death penalty,

                        few are going to probably give you a Blessing in that kind of decision, for some one to take there own life, regardless of the reason,

                        They may feel and understand but will not condone it. (other wise Dr. Jack Kevorkian would have got a Noble peace award, but instead he got jail time)
                        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                        attributed to Samuel Johnson
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Beliefs in Suicide

                          We are all dying. We are all in pain. I've got no idea why I exist, and little hope I ever will. But I choose to continue for a while yet. If nothing else I might be able to to make something a little better for someone else from time to time. I've got no problem with anyone who's had enough.
                          This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Beliefs in Suicide

                            It is not for me to judge another man's decisions about his own life. I am not god.
                            Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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                            • #15
                              Re: Beliefs in Suicide

                              The Remedy to feeling like you want to kill yourself is to smoke a joint, ( Comes from the earth )

                              I know , I know, its illegal but it will make you feel better , not that I know , But I have "heard"

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