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  • #16
    Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

    Vince somedays, after answering the phone all day, counting inventory and ordering new stock materials, writing out huge, fat checks to my advertising bills, truck bill, materials bill, phone bill, fuel bills, accounting bills, tools account, insurance bill, (ok, ok I'm getting depressed I'll stop now) etc, etc. Work 12 hours, come home and fall asleep having dreams about (more like nightmares) about plumbing business...
    ...I think, "What in the hell did I get myself into? I should have stayed as an employee at my last company!"

    ...Then I remember what it was like to be slave to a company and boss, and I look around and I smile because deep down I love being my own boss, and I wouldn't trade it for any job in the world.
    Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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    • #17
      Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

      Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
      Vince somedays, after answering the phone all day, counting inventory and ordering new stock materials, writing out huge, fat checks to my advertising bills, truck bill, materials bill, phone bill, fuel bills, accounting bills, tools account, insurance bill, (ok, ok I'm getting depressed I'll stop now) etc, etc. Work 12 hours, come home and fall asleep having dreams about (more like nightmares) about plumbing business...
      ...I think, "What in the hell did I get myself into? I should have stayed as an employee at my last company!"

      ...Then I remember what it was like to be slave to a company and boss, and I look around and I smile because deep down I love being my own boss, and I wouldn't trade it for any job in the world.
      well said.

      Vince

      my gears are already turning

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      • #18
        Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

        Start on your own now. Somebody somewhere you know needs something done on their plumbing. Even if you just break even on it. They need to learn about Vince the Plumber now so they can tell others.

        Build your reputation & credentials. Then maybe you can get one of those gov't contracts and fire some of your old co-workers.

        J.C.

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        • #19
          Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

          Originally posted by cpw View Post
          I think tenure has a place at the University level (not just regular colleges though), where there should be an incentive to insulate someone who is a good researcher (but possibly controversial) from some day-to-day financial pressure that could otherwise be exerted.

          Of course, tenuring a high school teacher makes no sense, there job doesn't need to include lots of independent thought. (Not that it is an easy job, but they are supposed to teach knowledge that has already been discovered).
          Lets see, don't tenure the high school teacher--after he/she gets higher up on the pay scale, DUMP 'EM
          ! Hire a newly graduated novice (equal to an apprentice) they will take good care of your kids learning. Where did you get your training for computer work? I don't mean just the electronic tech but your math, English etc. I'll bet not all of your teachers were brand new. I have only one more thig to say--before all of you moan about teachers and their working conditions, walk awhile in their shoes!!!

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          • #20
            Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

            Originally posted by cpw View Post
            I think tenure has a place at the University level (not just regular colleges though), where there should be an incentive to insulate someone who is a good researcher (but possibly controversial) from some day-to-day financial pressure that could otherwise be exerted.

            Of course, tenuring a high school teacher makes no sense, there job doesn't need to include lots of independent thought. (Not that it is an easy job, but they are supposed to teach knowledge that has already been discovered).
            For me this is "kookie talk".

            J.C.

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            • #21
              Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

              Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
              Lets see, don't tenure the high school teacher--after he/she gets higher up on the pay scale, DUMP 'EM
              ! Hire a newly graduated novice (equal to an apprentice) they will take good care of your kids learning. Where did you get your training for computer work? I don't mean just the electronic tech but your math, English etc. I'll bet not all of your teachers were brand new. I have only one more thig to say--before all of you moan about teachers and their working conditions, walk awhile in their shoes!!!
              Very important job/career, but not one that I would want for all the tea in China! Takes all my love and patience to deal with my own two daughters, can't imagine trying to teach and ride shotgun over a bunch of disrespectful, ill mannered kids I can't hit. No matter how much the job pays, I'd rather work in filth than deal with kids. Don't be too quick to blame the teachers for the failings of the students.

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              • #22
                Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

                Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                Lets see, don't tenure the high school teacher--after he/she gets higher up on the pay scale, DUMP 'EM
                ! Hire a newly graduated novice (equal to an apprentice) they will take good care of your kids learning. Where did you get your training for computer work? I don't mean just the electronic tech but your math, English etc. I'll bet not all of your teachers were brand new. I have only one more thig to say--before all of you moan about teachers and their working conditions, walk awhile in their shoes!!!
                i agree. i have to be careful not to paint everybody with the same brush. i hope you didn't take it that way.

                my point is that is some cases the unions have gotten too powerful in this region. the teachers are dedicated and are doing the best that they can do with what they've got. but at what point, and this goes for any gov't unionized position, are they going to make people actually work, and hold people accountable for their actions or lack there of? the teacher's union up here was used as an example.

                as a grandparent, and i'm not all that old (43), i scratch and shake my head.

                this BGG i'm dealing with is acting like a B5YO. his guys can't be touched unless it's a severe case of negligence or intent. and it's not even his guys fault because they lack proper leadership and training.

                what the heck is this world coming too?? crap. i'm starting to sound like my dad.

                as a professional non-union plumber, i'd be in a much better position to just get up and walk away when the abusive language starts. i can pick my clientele.

                for the time being until i can get going officially, i'm going to do what i've been doing for a a good portion of my life, on my own. i should have made this decision along time ago.

                Vince

                hey, maybe i can start a business owner's union up here

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                • #23
                  Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

                  We went on our own because we had to eat. We (my wife and I) talked about it for a couple years. We knew it would happen. I do enjoy it. Some things I find hilarious, others I want to run from.

                  Dont under estimate yourself (you are in charge). Believe it or not, you may find you have more friends than you know.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

                    No more b!tchin' Vince. Work, work, work.

                    Remember, concentrate on what you CAN DO. Not on what you can't.

                    J.C.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

                      Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                      Lets see, don't tenure the high school teacher--after he/she gets higher up on the pay scale, DUMP 'EM
                      ! Hire a newly graduated novice (equal to an apprentice) they will take good care of your kids learning. Where did you get your training for computer work? I don't mean just the electronic tech but your math, English etc. I'll bet not all of your teachers were brand new. I have only one more thig to say--before all of you moan about teachers and their working conditions, walk awhile in their shoes!!!
                      I do moan and groan about teachers, but there is a big difference between tenure vs. just not dumping people who have been working there a while. Software engineers (or even Research Scientists) don't get tenure; but it doesn't make sense just to fire someone because they are older and probably more expensive (assuming they produce more). If an older teacher doesn't do a better job than a younger teacher, they don't deserve more money than that younger teacher anyway. But if it was such an easy job, then I should have been a high school teacher instead of a computer scientist.

                      The university professor on the other hand needs to have the freedom to explore whatever they want to. Even as CS professor, let's say I want to work on algorithms that weaken encryption (or like one professor publish a paper on how I can make a master key to a building with only $5 and an existing key). Things like this can be unpopular, but researchers need to be independence. It is the same way you can't fire a federal judge. For a university professor getting tenure is NOT automatic. If you are a high school teacher, the bar is basically show up and don't screw up for five years or whatever; and there isn't the same need for independence.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

                        Originally posted by cpw View Post
                        I do moan and groan about teachers, but there is a big difference between tenure vs. just not dumping people who have been working there a while. Software engineers (or even Research Scientists) don't get tenure; but it doesn't make sense just to fire someone because they are older and probably more expensive (assuming they produce more). If an older teacher doesn't do a better job than a younger teacher, they don't deserve more money than that younger teacher anyway. But if it was such an easy job, then I should have been a high school teacher instead of a computer scientist.

                        The university professor on the other hand needs to have the freedom to explore whatever they want to. Even as CS professor, let's say I want to work on algorithms that weaken encryption (or like one professor publish a paper on how I can make a master key to a building with only $5 and an existing key). Things like this can be unpopular, but researchers need to be independence. It is the same way you can't fire a federal judge. For a university professor getting tenure is NOT automatic. If you are a high school teacher, the bar is basically show up and don't screw up for five years or whatever; and there isn't the same need for independence.
                        It is obvious you are not familiar with the process of a teacher getting tenure--at least here in Minnesota. In the probationary period, the teacher can be released for no reason. It is the administrators job to observe, monitor and evaluate that teacher to insure a qualified and effective teacher is retained. During that time the teacher must get additional training (and after tenure, too) at their own expense. IT IS NOT AUTOMATIC!! Add to that the fact that any bozo can be elected to the school board and the first thing they can think of is "get rid of all those high priced teachers" so we can save money. Just recently, a teacher I know had a parent complain that "their Johnny" was not getting "A's" when he is such a good student. This parent wanted the school board to fire the teacher. What would have happened if the parent had been a friend of several board members and the teacher had no tenure? Like I said before, do a little home work before you reach your decisions about other peoples jobs.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

                          The problem with tenure (IMO) is when you have a person making almost $90,000 a year working as a helper in the school library. How the teacher ended up with this job, I don't know. This to me is an entry level job, not where one should be after 15-20 years in the school system. The school tried to put her back into a classroom, she didn't want to go - she sued and won.

                          Tenure had its place along with fully paid benefits. Teacher salary was low and these were needed to attract (and keep) qualified people. Now that salaries (in our area) are where they should be, it's time for the teachers to pay a portion of their benefits. Removing a tenured teacher (for poor performance) requires an act of God.

                          That said, I could never be a teacher and I respect those who are. My sister's a teacher (2nd grade) and you can't believe the attitude some of these kids show up with. Second grade students mouthing off to adults - I'd last 20 min!

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                          • #28
                            Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

                            I'll concede the point about pressure from grades being a good reason for tenure. Unfortunately, the basis behind this is that our school boards are political opportunists who are too wobbly to do the right thing. We might both agree that this is true; but probably for different reasons.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Unions, up here-too powerful

                              Originally posted by tchads View Post
                              The problem with tenure (IMO) is when you have a person making almost $90,000 a year working as a helper in the school library. How the teacher ended up with this job, I don't know. This to me is an entry level job, not where one should be after 15-20 years in the school system. The school tried to put her back into a classroom, she didn't want to go - she sued and won.

                              Tenure had its place along with fully paid benefits. Teacher salary was low and these were needed to attract (and keep) qualified people. Now that salaries (in our area) are where they should be, it's time for the teachers to pay a portion of their benefits. Removing a tenured teacher (for poor performance) requires an act of God.

                              That said, I could never be a teacher and I respect those who are. My sister's a teacher (2nd grade) and you can't believe the attitude some of these kids show up with. Second grade students mouthing off to adults - I'd last 20 min!
                              sounds like that BGG.

                              Vince

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