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  • No Health Insurance

    Just a theoretical discussion that probably won't happen....

    What's your opinion of having all health insurance eliminated and the cost of services based on income/net worth?

    So heart surgery for someone like Bill Gates might cost 1 billion dollars.

    But for someone with my income it would be about 20 bucks.

    J.C.

  • #2
    Re: No Health Insurance

    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
    What's your opinion of having all health insurance eliminated and the cost of services based on income/net worth?

    So heart surgery for someone like Bill Gates might cost 1 billion dollars.

    But for someone with my income it would be about 20 bucks.
    How 'bout the cost of a car is based on your income too? Unless Bill Gates is getting more value out of his heart surgery than you, why should he pay more for the same thing?

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    • #3
      Re: No Health Insurance

      Originally posted by cpw View Post
      How 'bout the cost of a car is based on your income too? Unless Bill Gates is getting more value out of his heart surgery than you, why should he pay more for the same thing?

      Because although it's been tried and I've seen numbers, noone can really put a value on a human life as opposed to anything else. So value is not even in the equation of health.

      And the cost of everything else in the U.S. is based on supply/demand except for healthcare. Don't believe me? I challenge you to go to any hospital and ask them for a price list.

      Why don't they have one?

      What I am saying is that it takes X amount of $ to operated a health system. The current method is to insure, deny, uninsured, medicare etc. that's a big ball of red tape with $ & efficiency lost along the way.

      Alot of people I know want to have health insurance and cannot. They want to pay an affordable amount for premiums and copays but an affordable plan is unavailable to them. And the number of people in this category is increasing every day. Insurance may be at acceptable levels for some. But I believe they are in the minority.

      I have no idea what you make but what if your health insurance was as much as 35% to 40% of your income? I know more than one person that this is the case.

      I can't condone Socialized medical care but do find myself wondering about other answers.

      J.C.
      Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 02-05-2009, 11:59 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: No Health Insurance

        Socialized medicine? A lot of people are considering the idea in the US today. But I like it the way it is.
        Life is expensive. That is my motto.

        Health insurance is not a necessity. There is always the option of simply paying the doctor directly out-of-pocket.
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        • #5
          Re: No Health Insurance

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          Because although it's been tried and I've seen numbers, noone can really put a value on a human life as opposed to anything else. So value is not even in the equation of health.
          But it is. My son got a hearing test that was useless for $270. Our pediatrician said we should get another, the first doctor gave us no value; so we went somewhere else. There is some value associated with heart surgery. If it was a billion dollars; or even just 1 million dollars it may or may not be worth it. For a million dollars, I would probably want it now. When I'm 70, I think I might rather have my wife and kids have the million dollars than a doctor/hospital/whoever else. I don't have a million bucks, so in practice I would go with out. I know that if I'm hit by a bus tomorrow, then they'll get a lot less than a million, so I've already put a value on my life.

          And the cost of everything else in the U.S. is based on supply/demand except for healthcare. Don't believe me? I challenge you to go to any hospital and ask them for a price list.
          I agree that it is no longer based on supply and demand, but I think that is because third party payers have distorted the market.

          I think employers/insurers are beginning to wise up to this with high-deductible plans. Until we get $2400 worth of medical care a year, it is all out of pocket for us.

          Why don't they have one?
          I'm not actually sure they don't. I know that if I asked my pediatrician they would tell me what they would charge. Though, they probably don't know exactly how much they'll get paid.

          What I am saying is that it takes X amount of $ to operated a health system. The current method is to insure, deny, uninsured, medicare etc. that's a big ball of red tape with $ & efficiency lost along the way.
          I agree medical billing is terribly inefficient.

          Alot of people I know want to have health insurance and cannot. They want to pay an affordable amount for premiums and copays but an affordable plan is unavailable to them. And the number of people in this category is increasing every day. Insurance may be at acceptable levels for some. But I believe they are in the minority.
          But the whole idea that you want to have both an acceptable premium and a copay is the problem. You can't have it both ways. Either your premium will be high and it will cover everything; or your premium will be lower and your out-of-pocket will be higher.

          For all other kinds of insurance, you don't make a claim unless there is an unexpected event. Health insurance is the only one that you submit normal expenses too; so it really becomes a form of prepaid medical care instead of true insurance.

          I have no idea what you make but what if your health insurance was as much as 35% to 40% of your income? I know more than one person that this is the case.
          I would drop it and take my chances.

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          • #6
            Re: No Health Insurance

            Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
            Health insurance is not a necessity. There is always the option of simply paying the doctor directly out-of-pocket.
            Also, to add if you are in need of critical care, then you'll get it whether or not you have health insurance.

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            • #7
              Re: No Health Insurance

              Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
              Socialized medicine? A lot of people are considering the idea in the US today. But I like it the way it is.
              Life is expensive. That is my motto.

              Health insurance is not a necessity. There is always the option of simply paying the doctor directly out-of-pocket.
              Good to see Carl jump in. Now if I could just find MasterPlumb.

              Pay the doctor out of pocket? Call a couple of hospitals tomorrow and ask them their price for a gall bladder removal. That way you can decide which one you want to use based on performance, facilities, price, personnel.

              Just like everything else, right?

              J.C.

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              • #8
                Re: No Health Insurance

                In theory this administration will be giving everyone Health Care but in the off chance they don't Carl is pretty much on the money to a point. We can all afford a $100 office visit but how many of us could afford a $40,000 operation or a $250,000 transplant? My medical bills over the last 5-years are well over $1,000,000 (most paid by insurance). It is important to have at least catastrophic coverage. The premiums are reasonable and they may save your home and business some day.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                • #9
                  Re: No Health Insurance

                  Thanks Charles. Almost all that I know are slowly going to HDHP's because traditional premiums have been placed out of reach for the majority.

                  Maybe the insurer & health industry needs the premium asked to function but for some reason it has ramped up considerably recently to make it become unaffordable to the masses.

                  J.C.

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                  • #10
                    Re: No Health Insurance

                    If I could start over again, (and my parents could afford it )I would have gone to med school and become a doctor. I think they deserve all the money they make for the most part.
                    I once need life-saving surgery, and it costs $30,000, luckily I was insured. If I wasn't insured, I would have payed to the best of my ability. It may have taken a long time to pay it, but its worth it.....the alternative is death. At least we have a choice with modern medicine. A long time ago, I'd have simply died regardless of how much money I had.
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                    • #11
                      Re: No Health Insurance

                      Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                      If I could start over again, (and my parents could afford it )I would have gone to med school and become a doctor. I think they deserve all the money they make for the most part.
                      I once need life-saving surgery, and it costs $30,000, luckily I was insured. If I wasn't insured, I would have payed to the best of my ability. It may have taken a long time to pay it, but its worth it.....the alternative is death. At least we have a choice with modern medicine. A long time ago, I'd have simply died regardless of how much money I had.
                      I've seen on some programming and read what hospital interns go through to become doctors and I honestly don't know how they can do it sometimes. While health insurance is an ever increasing burden to most, good doctors are very unappreciated in my opinion. Just like plumbers.

                      I wouldn't mind so much paying doctors, nurses, etc. more. Just insurance companies less.

                      J.C.

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                      • #12
                        Re: No Health Insurance

                        BTW, now that I am the sole provider to my family, my personal choice is a high-deductible family insurance policy with BCBS. The deductibles are fairly high, so the premiums are low. It doesn't cover a lot of little stuff, whihc we end up paying out of pocket. HOWEVER, my entire family is covered for the really big stuff that could bankrupt us. Its the perfect policy for me.
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                        • #13
                          Re: No Health Insurance

                          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                          I wouldn't mind so much paying doctors, nurses, etc. more. Just insurance companies less.
                          I've found there are more crappy doctors than good doctors. My doctor on LI was crappy, but he would write a prescription for antibiotics whenever I was sick enough to go, so I put up with the long wait and otherwise general crappiness.

                          I have higher standards for our pediatrician though [instead of trying to go there never, we go there every 2-3 months], and after we moved it took a couple of tries to get a pediatrician we are happy with. Our current one is great though, no nurses in the office; he does everything himself and doesn't rush it. Paying him is definitely worth it.

                          Edit: BTW, Would it make sense for the better doctors to be able to command higher rates? As long as we have the negotiated insurance rates, that is probably never going to happen.

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                          • #14
                            Re: No Health Insurance

                            Actually ALL my insurance (home, auto, health, liability) are low premium/high-deductible policies. I read a long time ago that high-deductibles are the smartest decision financially. That way you are only paying for the low-risk catastrophic stuff, and not paying for small stuff "that might happen, but might not." The way I look at it, I'd rather pay for the small stuff out-of-pocket rather than pay an insurance company a monthly fee "just in case" something happens.
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                            • #15
                              Re: No Health Insurance

                              Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                              Actually ALL my insurance (home, auto, health, liability) are low premium/high-deductible policies. I read a long time ago that high-deductibles are the smartest decision financially. That way you are only paying for the low-risk catastrophic stuff, and not paying for small stuff "that might happen, but might not." The way I look at it, I'd rather pay for the small stuff out-of-pocket rather than pay an insurance company a monthly fee "just in case" something happens.
                              Been doing that too for a good while. Good tips.

                              J.C.

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