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  • #16
    Re: Drugs

    Originally posted by U&I Plumber View Post
    Legalize all of it...

    BUT...



    No 12 step programs, no free medical, no free re-hab, no free mental health, if you get caught thieving for your habit you lose a hand, no early social security as a result of being an addict, no free public assistance, if your raising kids on welfare you do random drug testing, you get one free dirty test, after that your out. I have no use for those that would use drugs as a crutch to become a burden on society, maintain drug free workplaces, if your hurt or cause harm on the job first stop is the test lab, if your dirty your unemployed.
    I kind of agree with this approach and would take it a few steps further. First off it might seem too harsh but I think to the folks who respond to accidents caused by drug use it's justifed. I think on the one hand we can make just about any drug legal and free up law enforcement but we would have to greatly up personal responsibilty while under the influence. I mean if you want to use pot, alcohol, or anything else that would impair your capacity to function rationally then you stay home. There are complications with staying home as well, such as being responsible for children. Life is stressful and painful at times so it's nice to medicate the mind and or body, the trick is to do it so others are not in jeopardy. So many lives cut short because folks choose to drive while impaired, or perform their jobs while impaired and this goes for professionals such as doctors and pilots. Can we agree that what we do or how we do it affects others? If so then we need to be considerate and not look for a way to condone our screwups but rather prevent them. I think we would probably lose a lot of folks if more drugs were made legal and accessible simply because there are too many people who don't know when to stop! Guys are overdosing on viagra, high school kids are dying from steroid use, abuse of botox is claiming a few lives as well. I wonder how many people die from plastic surgery? Living is risky business, do we trust our fellow man or woman enough to give them more legal drugs to choose from?

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    • #17
      Re: Drugs

      i have a therory about moses, the burning bush, and the ten comandments.

      on a serious note, what would this world be like without certain man-made drugs such as insulin and anti-depressants?

      while i'm not a diabetic, i am afficted with depression. i don't know if it is genentic or if it is a condition brought on by my fathers lack of control with regards to hitting. all i know is that the little happy pills have made a huge difference in my life so that i'm able to "get off my a$$" and be a productive member of society (yes, inuit pay taxes). it stopped the skipping record in life for me.

      i've seen people "cracked" up. that's scary.

      i've seen drunks that didn't make any sense.

      i've seen potheads that get the munchies.

      it almost seems hypocritical to say that if our governments legalized the so-called "soft drugs", they (the government) would have more control over the sale and distribution as well as quality control.

      as for up here, i'm thankful the potheads outnumber the drunks.

      Vince

      during my hard drink'in days, a friend of mine kept telling me, "everything in moderation".

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      • #18
        Re: Drugs

        I might not be Billy Popular for this, but to my mind, one of the most important things to do is to socially marginalize the drug abusers, followed by more effective deterrent sentencing for the dealers.

        If the demand is taken away, the dealers will be on the back foot. If the supply is taken away, the users will be on the back foot. Both need to be done to curtail the blight on society.

        I have no problem at all with prescribed medicinal drugs, but I have a great issue with illegal narcotics and amphetamines.

        I don't buy the "nature created it" argument either. Nature also created the ability to steal and kill. We deal harshly with those who do those things, illegal drug abuse is no different.

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        • #19
          Re: Drugs

          I agree, of the various phases I went thru smoking dope was by far the least destructive, it was the one thing that I could function well on every day with no ill side effects.

          I would much rather see pot heads on the road any day over the drunks, tweekers, and the rest of em.

          I have yet to hear of an individual that overdosed on pot.

          Gateway drug ppffffffttt, alcohol and cigs.
          sigpic
          www.uandiplumbing.com

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          • #20
            Re: Drugs

            Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
            I might not be Billy Popular for this, but to my mind, one of the most important things to do is to socially marginalize the drug abusers, followed by more effective deterrent sentencing for the dealers.

            If the demand is taken away, the dealers will be on the back foot. If the supply is taken away, the users will be on the back foot. Both need to be done to curtail the blight on society.

            I have no problem at all with prescribed medicinal drugs, but I have a great issue with illegal narcotics and amphetamines.

            I don't buy the "nature created it" argument either. Nature also created the ability to steal and kill. We deal harshly with those who do those things, illegal drug abuse is no different.

            I have to dis-agree, it makes no difference whether its synthetic or not, drugs are drugs, there is no distinction. I have seen just as many lives wrecked on perscription drugs as any other.

            It was alarming watching my kids go thru the DARE program, no effort was made to inform them of the dangers of ALL drugs, so I took it upon myself to educate them.
            sigpic
            www.uandiplumbing.com

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            • #21
              Re: Drugs

              Just to be unambiguous, I am totally against misuse of drugs, prescription or not. However, I am totally FOR the use of drugs to treat medical conditions under the control of doctors.

              As an example, I had an eye ulcer a month or so ago. The instant the doctor put the anaesthetic drops in, the pain ceased. I was prescribed antibiotic drops to deal with the infection, steroid drops to aid healing, and Vicodin for the pain.

              A month later, I'm back to full vision, no pain, and only 5 of the 30 Vicodin taken. Next time I go to the pharmacy, the remaining Vicodin will be turned in. I hear I could sell the remaining 25 pills for $50 each. I'd rather cut my nuts off than do that.

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              • #22
                Re: Drugs

                Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
                A month later, I'm back to full vision, no pain, and only 5 of the 30 Vicodin taken. Next time I go to the pharmacy, the remaining Vicodin will be turned in. I hear I could sell the remaining 25 pills for $50 each.
                Why not just flush them?

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                • #23
                  Re: Drugs

                  Originally posted by cpw View Post
                  Why not just flush them?
                  Why?, so it can end up back in my drinking water?

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                  • #24
                    Re: Drugs

                    Originally posted by cpw View Post
                    Why not just flush them?
                    I was under the impression that the proper thing to do was return them, so it doesn't cause issues for the water system. I don't suppose 25 tabs will make much difference, but cumulatively, perhaps it does. The point is, they won't be entering the black market, flushed, trashed or turned in.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Drugs

                      Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
                      If the demand is taken away, the dealers will be on the back foot. If the supply is taken away, the users will be on the back foot. Both need to be done to curtail the blight on society.
                      This is wishful thinking. They tried that approach with booze, as we all know. We also know how much higher the crime was then, and that people actually drank more than ever. The forbidden fruit does seem to taste better and we need to draw some conclusion from that and from the whole prohibition fiasco. Otherwise, the old adage will still hold true that history teaches us that history teaches us nothing.

                      As Vince suggested, there would be probably little extra revenue from light dope, but there would certainly be billions of dollars that would not have to be spent on the un-winnable war.
                      In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Drugs

                        I think the current war on drugs is a ridiculous waste of tax money. Too many guys sitting in federally funded prisons (we the tax payers pay for their shelter, food, etc.) over selling some dope to their buddy. Its ridiculous. I have used drugs recreationally and yes I admit, it can be dangerous if abused....so can swimming, hiking, hunting, driving, EVERYTHING CAN BE DANGEROUS. I don't see why the government should have so much control over what substances its citizens can or cannot ingest by their own choice. The puritanical US government even tried to illegalize alcohol once, and we all know how that turned out! Keep the government out of my brain.
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                        • #27
                          Re: Drugs

                          While I'm against the whole 9 yards, I don't think the issue is so much the mellow guy stoned in the corner of the bar.

                          The real issue to me is the petty crime that occurs to fund a habit. All the antisocial crap that goes with that. Burglaries, muggings, theft etc. Then there's the dealers who have this whole subculture thing going on where the "respect" for the big guy is enforced with guns.

                          I really don't give two $hits if a guy (or girl) wants to kill themselves with drugs. It's their problem, not mine. When they make it my problem by ruining the society in which I live, then it gets my goat, and I happily support ruining their lives judicially.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Drugs

                            Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
                            While I'm against the whole 9 yards, I don't think the issue is so much the mellow guy stoned in the corner of the bar.

                            The real issue to me is the petty crime that occurs to fund a habit. All the antisocial crap that goes with that. Burglaries, muggings, theft etc. Then there's the dealers who have this whole subculture thing going on where the "respect" for the big guy is enforced with guns.

                            I really don't give two $hits if a guy (or girl) wants to kill themselves with drugs. It's their problem, not mine. When they make it my problem by ruining the society in which I live, then it gets my goat, and I happily support ruining their lives judicially.
                            The problem is that the judicial system is not stopping it, hell they get better dope behind bars than is on the street. What is getting wrecked are the support individuals and the collaterals, kids, extended family, those are the ones that are really paying the price, oh and don't forget the taxpayers like myself that are tired of funding this worthless endevor.


                            INSANITY... trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result...
                            Last edited by U&I Plumber; 03-02-2009, 09:05 AM.
                            sigpic
                            www.uandiplumbing.com

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                            • #29
                              Re: Drugs

                              Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                              I don't see why the government should have so much control over what substances its citizens can or cannot ingest by their own choice. The puritanical US government even tried to illegalize alcohol once, and we all know how that turned out! Keep the government out of my brain.
                              Cannabis regulations have nothing to do with government or puritanism. Although, indeed, increased sexual activity was one of the "faults" alleged to be caused by marijuana (should we ban viagra?).

                              The main reason and the main pushers of the anti-cannabis regulations in 1930's were people whose business could have been dimished as a result of legal cannabis cultivation.

                              William Randolph Hearst - pulp and paper industry interests. Cabbanis could be used instead.
                              DuPont - they just patented the process of manufacturing plastics from oil. Cannabis could be used instead. (DuPont's chief financial supporter was the Secretary of Treasury under Hoover). He appointed his soon to be son-in-law (Harry J. Anslinger) head Federal Bureau of Narcotics. Anslinger held the post till early 1960's.

                              I don't think the ban on marijuana has anything to do with the safety on the roads or at homes. If that were the real concern then MacDonald's should have been banned years ago, along steroids in farm animals. Yup, we're all steroid users. And these are just two examples of the many legal products causing serious health effects on humans.
                              In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Drugs

                                Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
                                I hear I could sell the remaining 25 pills for $50 each. I'd rather cut my nuts off than do that.



                                Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!



                                Just keep your nuts and send the unused to me fo fwee!



                                I've been on these for years!


                                Hate to say it, but they'll never be worth $50 apiece. They don't work that good. You're thinking of another controlled substance.
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