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  • #16
    Re: Quality of Life

    Originally posted by AFM View Post
    Everyone has a different quality of life and I remember my father saying he wanted to live as long as he could wipe his own *** and not to have someone else doing it for him and he was lucky he died before before that happened.
    But we've become so civilised that we have no choice in the way we die as euthanasia is illegal so all our so called rights in the US and OZ are worthless.

    Tony
    Tony, I live in a Right To Die state broadly meaning that Assisted Suicide is legal. All it takes is a doctor's signature and we get a lethal dose. If needed, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

    I also have a Do Not Resuscitate standing order which means that if I was in a accident or something that would destroy my quality of life to let me die.
    (The Low Spark of Steel-Toed Boys)

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    • #17
      Re: Quality of Life

      This is a good discussion. My wife, Mrs. Canucksartech, is an R.N. here in Ontario (Registered Nurse, for those that may not be sure of the acronym). As such, she is a charge nurse on a floor in our local hospital, the floor being Rehab/Continuing Care. With this, she has patients that run the gamut from being a 16 year-old girl that was injured in a car accident and needs to rehab her broken leg (but that doesn't require being in ICU or the Medical/Surgical wing anymore), to a 50 year-old stroke patient that came straight up from Emerg for continuing care, to a 93 year-old paliative patient that needs more detailed "end-of-life care" that is more than a nursing/retirement home can provide, to help make them more comfortable in their passing. Now, my wife is two years younger than me (she's 28 years old), with 6 years seniority in her position. She's very unique in that she's quite young to be a full-time nurse in a charge position in the field that she's in - the norm here in Ontario is for a nurse to have roughly 6 to 8 years of part-time experience before a hospital will even look twice about hiring you full time for a charge position. She just lucked out - the stars were aligned. It may also help that she also does some emergency work in what she and I do with our regional Search & Rescue unit (she, obviously, is an RN, and I'm a Medical First Responder, similar to EMT in some U.S. states).

      All that said, she also looks fairly young even for her age, and is quite frequently referred to as the "girly". She gets lots of, "What school are you a student in?", "When do you get done school?", and "Can I see your ID for this rum & coke, Miss?" Now, none of that actually bothers her - I'm just leading to somewhere with it (a long trip, I know).

      She quite frequently deals with these sorts of decisions/cases/patients that have been discussed here as examples. She is the one usually who has to sit down with the patient's families (with or without a doctor also), and must discuss the options, and/or the patient's wishes. Many patients have a DNR order (Do Not Rescusitate order), however, there are usually patient's families who do not want this followed. They hide the DNR from medical personel, and/or don't tell them about it, or go through legal means to get it disallowed. There is a certain amount of legal leeway here in Ontario where the family has trumping status over what the patient may have themselves put to paper - organ donation is one example where the family can potentially disallow something that the patient has put their signature too.

      Where I'm going with this is that what we see is that it's not necessarily the majority of patients who are putting the strain on the medical system, both in the U.S. and in Canada. It's actually the patients' families - they just can't bear to let go. It's extremely frustrating for my wife when she comes home from a day at work, where a 53-year-old woman, who is the daughter of an 80-year-old lady dying of multiple types of cancer, decides it is within her reason to call my wife and the other medical staff every last derogatory name in the book because my wife is trying to follow the dying woman's wishes. She gets situations like this all the time - the family can't bear the thought of what's happening, and have refused to deal with this reality even though they knew it was coming for say 6 months or so. They're upset that they don't have more time. And, in their selfish self-loathing pity and arrogance, they demand that more be done than should be, and put the patient through more agonizing time and extended care, when all they can do is blink and maybe nod, and not live productively or even comfortably. These are the kind of people that just don't get it.

      Now, neither of us are really pro- when it comes to putting a timeline on what should/shouldn't be done based on age, etc. But there should be more of a limit put in place when patients' families (and sometimes patient's themselves) are making ridiculous demands and have excessive expectations about what can/should/could be done. Sometimes, you just need to give someone a good shot of Demerol or hydromorphone (maybe a rum and coke with a nice Cuban cigar, too), and talk about the good times as you let them feel comfortable in their passing.

      Some people are just so self-loathing and arrogant, that they truely miss the opportunity to just be grateful in having the time to say their goodbyes.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Quality of Life

        Originally posted by canucksartech View Post
        This is a good discussion. My wife, Mrs. Canucksartech, is an R.N. here in Ontario (Registered Nurse, for those that may not be sure of the acronym). As such, she is a charge nurse on a floor in our local hospital, the floor being Rehab/Continuing Care. With this, she has patients that run the gamut from being a 16 year-old girl that was injured in a car accident and needs to rehab her broken leg (but that doesn't require being in ICU or the Medical/Surgical wing anymore), to a 50 year-old stroke patient that came straight up from Emerg for continuing care, to a 93 year-old paliative patient that needs more detailed "end-of-life care" that is more than a nursing/retirement home can provide, to help make them more comfortable in their passing. Now, my wife is two years younger than me (she's 28 years old), with 6 years seniority in her position. She's very unique in that she's quite young to be a full-time nurse in a charge position in the field that she's in - the norm here in Ontario is for a nurse to have roughly 6 to 8 years of part-time experience before a hospital will even look twice about hiring you full time for a charge position. She just lucked out - the stars were aligned. It may also help that she also does some emergency work in what she and I do with our regional Search & Rescue unit (she, obviously, is an RN, and I'm a Medical First Responder, similar to EMT in some U.S. states).

        All that said, she also looks fairly young even for her age, and is quite frequently referred to as the "girly". She gets lots of, "What school are you a student in?", "When do you get done school?", and "Can I see your ID for this rum & coke, Miss?" Now, none of that actually bothers her - I'm just leading to somewhere with it (a long trip, I know).

        She quite frequently deals with these sorts of decisions/cases/patients that have been discussed here as examples. She is the one usually who has to sit down with the patient's families (with or without a doctor also), and must discuss the options, and/or the patient's wishes. Many patients have a DNR order (Do Not Rescusitate order), however, there are usually patient's families who do not want this followed. They hide the DNR from medical personel, and/or don't tell them about it, or go through legal means to get it disallowed. There is a certain amount of legal leeway here in Ontario where the family has trumping status over what the patient may have themselves put to paper - organ donation is one example where the family can potentially disallow something that the patient has put their signature too.

        Where I'm going with this is that what we see is that it's not necessarily the majority of patients who are putting the strain on the medical system, both in the U.S. and in Canada. It's actually the patients' families - they just can't bear to let go. It's extremely frustrating for my wife when she comes home from a day at work, where a 53-year-old woman, who is the daughter of an 80-year-old lady dying of multiple types of cancer, decides it is within her reason to call my wife and the other medical staff every last derogatory name in the book because my wife is trying to follow the dying woman's wishes. She gets situations like this all the time - the family can't bear the thought of what's happening, and have refused to deal with this reality even though they knew it was coming for say 6 months or so. They're upset that they don't have more time. And, in their selfish self-loathing pity and arrogance, they demand that more be done than should be, and put the patient through more agonizing time and extended care, when all they can do is blink and maybe nod, and not live productively or even comfortably. These are the kind of people that just don't get it.

        Now, neither of us are really pro- when it comes to putting a timeline on what should/shouldn't be done based on age, etc. But there should be more of a limit put in place when patients' families (and sometimes patient's themselves) are making ridiculous demands and have excessive expectations about what can/should/could be done. Sometimes, you just need to give someone a good shot of Demerol or hydromorphone (maybe a rum and coke with a nice Cuban cigar, too), and talk about the good times as you let them feel comfortable in their passing.

        Some people are just so self-loathing and arrogant, that they truely miss the opportunity to just be grateful in having the time to say their goodbyes.
        Wow, I assumed you were an old fart like me! Young man with a young wife, God Bless You! Good post and very insightful. Some people must learn how to die as well as live, and there in lies part of the problem. I had a daughter who died of infantile progressive spinal muscular atrophy, no treatment or cure. I did not want her to suffer through medical procedures because there was no chance she would survive and live anyway. I've had many surgeries and they are frightening and painful. Why put someone who is terminally ill or very old, frail and unable to decide for themself through such torture? I agree that just because we can extend someone's life does not mean we necessarily should.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Quality of Life

          Originally posted by canucksartech View Post
          ...
          Some people are just so self-loathing and arrogant, that they truely miss the opportunity to just be grateful in having the time to say their goodbyes.
          I get it all the time because of "Right to Die" stance. I tell them that we are not gods. We are very mortal. Humans know that death is the final outcome of life from the first pet that dies under our care. Our society does not shrink from showing/discussing death in all the medias.

          Given that, why does the spouse/child/guardian keep the corpse alive? In many cases, its money: Retirement benefits that expire when the corpse is buried. In the case of my bro-in-law, he was receiving 4k a month while dying due to some policies he had and social security benefits. My sister was probably netting 3k because he had great insurance plus military health benefits. She would never admit this and nobody would bring it up, but there you are. He lived almost 2 years past his expiration date and it was a miserable experience for a vital man.

          He is the reason I protect my own corpse from scavengers. I ain't going to be a cash corpse for nobody.
          (The Low Spark of Steel-Toed Boys)

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Quality of Life

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            Wow, I assumed you were an old fart like me! Young man with a young wife, God Bless You! Good post and very insightful.
            Old fart??!! Frankie, you're not an old fart, you're just a crotchety, miserable, uptight, grouchy SOB....wait a minute....is that better or worse?

            Nah, I've just lived many experiences (from general contracting, to private escort security, to management, to policing/SAR/military, to international relief and poverty missions), and have always been told I'm mature for my years and have "an old soul". Like my wife, I've beared witness to way too many people passing in front of me to not have an opinion on it. The one good thing is that we get along smashingly in our marriage, in that there's lots of black humour to be had in our house.

            Comment

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