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  • #31
    Re: Ford says Thanks!

    Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
    Very True, But

    The k - 12 school system used to give a person a chance with out college, not any longer.

    Now the University's started cashing in on our retirements..........
    I actually agree that it is big problem that our K12 system is so college focused. High schools should be producing productive members of society, college isn't for everyone. Not only that, but because so many people get a 4-year degree, you need to get a graduate degree if you want to be set apart.

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    • #32
      Re: Ford says Thanks!

      Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
      This is VERY true, on the surface BUT not in reality,

      Today's reality or "job market" is FULL of people from schools all over,

      Employers generally select or hire someone from a nicer school then a state school. Its sad but very true.

      Then again, With today's 9.7% unemployment rate finding a job is hard no matter what school you go to.

      I will tell ya one thing though.

      While we all argue about health care, bailouts etc, There is BILLIONS of gallons of water being wasted from leaky faucets toilets alone that leak etc and not enough plumbers to get it all done.

      When we run out of water in ten years I hope we can wave a magic wand..........
      There are some very limited places where a school can make a big difference (e.g., if you want to work for a top law firm). For the rest of us, not so much. After you get your first job, no one asks you what school you went to; they ask you what you did afterwards in the real world. At your first job, after one or two performance reviews, no one cares about where you went to college they care about what value you've added to the company.

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      • #33
        Re: Ford says Thanks!

        Originally posted by cpw View Post
        High schools should be producing productive members of society, college isn't for everyone. Not only that, but because so many people get a 4-year degree, you need to get a graduate degree if you want to be set apart.


        That's a very good way to put it, I agree with that statement 100%
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        • #34
          Re: Ford says Thanks!

          Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
          I do agree there is a BIG difference between Harbor Tools and RIDGID,

          BUT - RIDGID does make some of its tools in China - For instance, The box on my Micro SeeSnake says "Made in China"...

          So I don't really think where its made is a problem,




          Even if we all pushed the "trades" again this nation would be better,

          The whole "get a college degree" and then to walk out of school with 160k in debt and still not have any real world experience is what the problem is.

          You got guys basically paying their way to the top at this point, that's how this whole mess started......THE MBA(Masters of Business) .........Ever notice how NOW you need a MBA to run even the smallest corp.......

          Come on, Back in the day, you would learn from experience and then earn your way to the top.

          Now its all about a financial loan and a peace of paper.....

          GEE - I wonder who invented the "Toxic Asset"

          That sure was not a BLUE COLLAR term...


          PROBLEM: Too many Chiefs NOT Enough Indians
          I posted on this Forum a few days ago that we are "dumbing" America by letting the trades fall by the wayside. Here is CT the govenor closed one of our only trade high schools. We are in need of good machinists from what I hear. Disposable society? Wasteful society and if we don't grow the trades we will be a desperate society. On the other hand, it takes all kinds to balance the job market. Talking about college and education, my daughter will graduate Cornell soon and plans to go on to more education? We've helped her avoid loans and she has excellent grades and gets financial aid. I agree that companies go for the "name" college graduates, which is a shame but that's what it has come to. The days of working your way up from the bottom on merrit and drive are gone. My main concern is for my daughter to have a well balanced life, appreciate her many gifts of family, opportunity and country, and to be happy. I don't care who you are or what you do to sustain yourself or your family, how you live is important. We are comparing blue to white collar jobs, but it's who we are inside and how we relate to others that brings us together to keeps us apart. I wonder who raised the financial crooks who bilked so many folks out of their stock savings, or perpetrated some of the other white collar crimes against the public? Somewhere along the line these folks either didn't get taught right, or just tossed their values and conscience. Teach your children well!

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Ford says Thanks!

            Unfortunately, now that high schools are being judged strictly by numbers, and one of the yardsticks they are using is "percent of graduates who went to college", guidance counselors will keep pushing kids, no matter what their inclination, into a university, when by their nature or temperament a trade school would be a much better fit for them. I haven't heard of a counselor telling a kid to become a machinist, welder, plumber, etc. in a lot of years. Then they tell all the kids to "study what they enjoy" so you get a bunch of liberal arts, psychology, philosophy,and art majors coming out of school 100k in debt and no job prospects unless they go back to school (and take on more debt) and get an advanced degree. I think kids should get their first degree in something that pays the bills and then go to school at night to study what they enjoy. Finding work you enjoy is great, but how can you enjoy your 20k/year job with 100k/debt hanging over your head?

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            • #36
              Re: Ford says Thanks!

              Originally posted by JTROANOKE View Post
              Then they tell all the kids to "study what they enjoy" so you get a bunch of liberal arts, psychology, philosophy,and art majors coming out of school 100k in debt and no job prospects unless they go back to school (and take on more debt) and get an advanced degree. I think kids should get their first degree in something that pays the bills and then go to school at night to study what they enjoy. Finding work you enjoy is great, but how can you enjoy your 20k/year job with 100k/debt hanging over your head?

              Yup, I 100% agree,

              But that's what "they" want - The more debt you have, The more you need a JOB

              The more you need a job, The more you can become "owned" by a large corp etc.
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              • #37
                Re: Ford says Thanks!

                Don't forget to add the cost of a car loan and whatever credit card debt the student ran up to their college loan. Education is a great thing no argument here, however it is still a physical world with many vital jobs outside of the scope of college. I think in a perfect world there would be time and money to provide just about all folks with a great education including college before they go on to their calling in life, but we don't live in a perfect world.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Ford says Thanks!

                  Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                  Don't forget to add the cost of a car loan and whatever credit card debt the student ran up to their college loan. Education is a great thing no argument here, however it is still a physical world with many vital jobs outside of the scope of college. I think in a perfect world there would be time and money to provide just about all folks with a great education including college before they go on to their calling in life, but we don't live in a perfect world.
                  Yup - Here is your TYPICAL College scenario

                  1) Turn 18 go to college
                  2) School $20k - $160k for degree
                  3) Car Loan $5k - $30k
                  4) Credit Card Debt During School (4 years) $7k + up
                  5) Buy House After School $150k + up

                  Drum-roll Please

                  Start your new $50K a year job and hope one day you can pay off your debt

                  VS

                  Getting a TRADE under your belt where you can start for zero money down and earn $$$ from day one

                  Hmmmmmm
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                  • #39
                    Re: Ford says Thanks!

                    Originally posted by JTROANOKE View Post
                    Unfortunately, now that high schools are being judged strictly by numbers, and one of the yardsticks they are using is "percent of graduates who went to college", guidance counselors will keep pushing kids, no matter what their inclination, into a university, when by their nature or temperament a trade school would be a much better fit for them. I haven't heard of a counselor telling a kid to become a machinist, welder, plumber, etc. in a lot of years. Then they tell all the kids to "study what they enjoy" so you get a bunch of liberal arts, psychology, philosophy,and art majors coming out of school 100k in debt and no job prospects unless they go back to school (and take on more debt) and get an advanced degree. I think kids should get their first degree in something that pays the bills and then go to school at night to study what they enjoy. Finding work you enjoy is great, but how can you enjoy your 20k/year job with 100k/debt hanging over your head?
                    One of my English teachers in HS used to rail against going to a four year straight out of high school. Community college/junior college was the way forward-they cost less, and carry many of the same courses that can be transferred later to a four year. I had an instructor at the JC I attended who also taught at a UC (4 year). Not only are they cheaper, and carry the same courses-they are often a better alternative for those who are undecided in their major (had an English teacher who spent 7 years earning his bachelors degree, lol).

                    Anyway, by my original post, I wanted to get across the idea that the attention focused on preserving these jobs that are going oversees should instead be focused on pushing today's youth to evolve with the times. College degree, or trade. Trades will always be needed. A person with a college degree ain't working at Walfart forever, and if they did, then that's what was going to happen regardless... Doctors, scientists, and engineers are all needed here in the USA. I've read of shortages in each of those fields, to the point that I've heard visa standards have been changed to allow foreigners more time here on their student visas after graduating. There's a backlog of applicants trying to work here with their degree earned here.

                    In anycase, trades are the backbone of the nation. I completely agree with anyone pointing out that trades receive too little attention and respect. The original point of the post was to point out there are better ways to keep our country strong than to whine about factory jobs leaving the US. Two of them are to prod kids to excel in their education and to promote the trades. Electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc, etc... can never be replaced by a outsourcing to China.
                    Last edited by Jack_the_Hack; 09-26-2009, 06:50 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Ford says Thanks!

                      Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                      Yup - Here is your TYPICAL College scenario

                      1) Turn 18 go to college
                      2) School $20k - $160k for degree
                      3) Car Loan $5k - $30k
                      4) Credit Card Debt During School (4 years) $7k + up
                      5) Buy House After School $150k + up

                      Drum-roll Please

                      Start your new $50K a year job and hope one day you can pay off your debt

                      VS

                      Getting a TRADE under your belt where you can start for zero money down and earn $$$ from day one

                      Hmmmmmm
                      Makes too much sense man!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Ford says Thanks!

                        Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                        I do agree there is a BIG difference between Harbor Tools and RIDGID,

                        BUT - RIDGID does make some of its tools in China - For instance, The box on my Micro SeeSnake says "Made in China"...

                        So I don't really think where its made is a problem,
                        Very much agreed, and that's my point! Ridgid's good stuff, Chinese made does not equal crap, and often means the opposite. I think everything I've used Ridgid is Chinese made, or Taiwanese.
                        Last edited by Jack_the_Hack; 09-26-2009, 07:01 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Ford says Thanks!

                          Originally posted by Jack_the_Hack View Post
                          One of my English teachers in HS used to rail against going to a four year straight out of high school. Community college/junior college was the way forward-they cost less, and carry many of the same courses that can be transferred later to a four year. I had an instructor at the JC I attended who also taught at a UC (4 year). Not only are they cheaper, and carry the same courses-they are often a better alternative for those who are undecided in their major (had an English teacher who spent 7 years earning his bachelors degree, lol).

                          Anyway, by my original post, I wanted to get across the idea that the attention focused on preserving these jobs that are going oversees should instead be focused on pushing today's youth to evolve with the times. College degree, or trade. Trades will always be needed. A person with a college degree ain't working at Walfart forever, and if they did, then that's what was going to happen regardless... Doctors, scientists, and engineers are all needed here in the USA. I've read of shortages in each of those fields, to the point that I've heard visa standards have been changed to allow foreigners more time here on their student visas after graduating. There's a backlog of applicants trying to work here with their degree earned here.

                          In anycase, trades are the backbone of the nation. I completely agree with anyone pointing out that trades receive too little attention and respect. The original point of the post was to point out there are better ways to keep our country strong than to whine about factory jobs leaving the US. Two of them are to prod kids to excel in their education and to promote the trades. Electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc, etc... can never be replaced by a outsourcing to China.
                          I respect trades people as well as white collar workers, I think everyone who contributes to the good of society is also part of that backbone. I'd hate to see the further loss of any American jobs for two reasons, specific to china would be the strengthening of their freedom crushing communist government. My biggest problem with outsourcing is the dwindling strength of the American economy as our dollars exit to pay for these foreign goods never to return. Certain jobs can't be outsourced but while that may make the individual feel somehow confident about his/her future, we as Americans are all connected to things like the massive trade deficit. You can't expect the loss of millions of jobs coupled with the growing trade deficit to pass you by when it comes time to balance the books. We have very well educated legislators and yet they seem to not be bothered by what I figure is our most serious problem, that of growing our own economy through real jobs and balanced trade. What we have instead is a shrinking American way of life and a lot of talk by our current administration while communist china is growing and building for the future. Share the bigger picture with me, not to get depressed but to be aware of how it is all interconnected. I'd still like to have someone explain how our economy can possibly recover without new jobs free from government funding along with many needed changes both within our country and outside as well. There must be a way to address outsourcing and the trade deficit without forcing more Americans into unemployment and tent cities?

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                          • #43
                            Re: Ford says Thanks!

                            maybe we should boycot ford

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                            • #44
                              Re: Ford says Thanks!

                              Originally posted by woodman619 View Post
                              maybe we should boycot ford
                              In my opinion if there is an answer it's a heck of a lot more complicated. There is so much that would have to change to get us back on our feet, here and as a world player. I think we need to make more of what we consume, so we keep more of our wealth in the USA. Can't begin to do that unless environmental laws are relaxed, tax codes towards business change, trade limits, tarrifs and other trade rules also change. I think we are in too deep with china for any of those things to happen? I think we are in deep trouble and the President praising our good trading partner china is way off track.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Ford says Thanks!

                                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                                In my opinion if there is an answer it's a heck of a lot more complicated. There is so much that would have to change to get us back on our feet, here and as a world player. I think we need to make more of what we consume, so we keep more of our wealth in the USA. Can't begin to do that unless environmental laws are relaxed, tax codes towards business change, trade limits, tarrifs and other trade rules also change. I think we are in too deep with china for any of those things to happen? I think we are in deep trouble and the President praising our good trading partner china is way off track.
                                i declare war on the govt

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