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  • Ford says Thanks!

    I just saw this story on my local News and was sort of shocked and disappointed, after Ford benefitted from taxpayer bailout money and the cash for clunkers program the best way it could repay Americans was to build a $ four hundred and ninety million dollar plant in communist china!
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090925/...rd_china_plant

  • #2
    Re: Ford says Thanks!

    Rats jumping off a sinking ship.
    This country does things I don't understand,probably good I don't know the truth.I guess that's why I don't put energy into listening to those who are supposed to be leading the way.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ford says Thanks!

      Ford didn't go belly up like the other automakers, nor do I think they took loans. We can say they shouldn't sell or build cars in China, but I think I would still rather have them stay in business than fail and get outcompeted by global car companies.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Ford says Thanks!

        Originally posted by cpw View Post
        Ford didn't go belly up like the other automakers, nor do I think they took loans. We can say they shouldn't sell or build cars in China, but I think I would still rather have them stay in business than fail and get outcompeted by global car companies.
        Charles, I stand corrected on Ford accepting bailout money, but I firmly believe they are wrong to call themselves an American automaker and invest in communist china. I could be wrong but I think unemployment coupled with consumer spending is a major component of our economic problem. How are we supposed to recover, if jobs keep leaving America along with consumer dollars? Our trillion dollar trade deficit proves the global economy is not a level playing field and we either start investing in America and the American worker and build our way of life, or perhaps build more tent cities and have Americans get used to living like their third world competition. We are not the only market for cars, electronics and other consumer goods, but we are a major one and I maintain that unless the American consumer is strengthened through good paying jobs we along with the rest of the world will suffer economic doom.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Ford says Thanks!

          The way I recall Ford refused the Governments "Bailout". unless some thing happened I was not aware of,

          From Times Online January 29, 2009

          Ford refuses bailout despite $14.6 billion loss
          Christine Seib in New York
          Ford Motor Company plunged to a full-year loss of $14.6 billion (£10.2 billion) for 2008 — the worst annual performance in its 105-year history — but the second-biggest American carmaker insisted that it did not need a government bailout.

          The slide into the red eclipsed Ford's previous record loss of $12.6 billion in 2006.

          The shares fell by nearly 2 per cent to $1.99 after the announcement.

          The company reported an after-tax loss of $5.9 billion in the fourth quarter of 2008 in figures announced today. This compares with a loss of $2.8 billion in the same quarter a year earlier.

          The Michigan-based company burnt through $5.5 billion in cash in the last three months of 2008, cutting its reserves to $13.4 billion, as the recession forced consumers to shelve plans to buy new cars.

          Ford refuses to reveal how much money it needs to operate but said today that it had enough cash to fund its planned restructuring without government assistance.

          The company said: "Ford has sufficient automotive liquidity to fund its business plan and product investments and does not need a bridge loan from the US Government."

          Unlike General Motors and Chrysler, its American rivals, Ford has not received help from the Government to ride out the economic downturn.

          It has been able to survive because Alan Mulally, the chief executive, secured $23 billion in commercial loans in 2006 in return for securitising all of Ford's assets, even including the blue logo that sits on the front of its vehicles.

          William Clay Ford Jr, the company chairman, insisted this month that the carmaker would not take taxypayers' cash "unless the world implodes".

          Ford is, however, talking to the US Treasury about ways to boost Ford Motor Credit, its financing business, through which many of its customers get loans to buy new cars and where it plans to cut 1,200 jobs, or 20 per cent of its staff, in 2009.

          Ford said today that it would draw on its existing credit line in this quarter, making $10.1 billion in cash available to fund its operations.

          The company also said that it had reached an agreement with the United Autoworkers union to end the "jobs bank" in which workers are paid even when there is no employment for them.

          Ford and GM have also got rid of their job banks.

          Industry forecasters have prediced that US car sales are likely to hit their lowest level this year since 1982, on top of an 18 per cent fall last year.

          Ford is predicting a 7.6 per cent decline in its business.

          Volvo Cars, the Swedish carmaker owned by Ford, has requested a loan of €475 million from the European Investment Bank (EIB), the Swedish Government said today.

          “Volvo has requested a loan of around five billion kronor,” the Government said, adding that a final agreement including Swedish state guarantees for the loan was expected to be concluded by March.

          Around three quarters of a rescue plan for the Swedish car industry amounting to 28 billion kronor (£2.45 billion) consists of Swedish government guarantees for loans from the EIB.

          Ford said today that Volvo Cars made a loss of $736 million in the fourth quarter.
          http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle5611933.ece
          another story (I know there back in the first of the year).

          Ford Lives! no comment Posted by admin As the only one of the “Big Three” that did not take a federal bailout from Washington, Ford is enjoying its time in the spotlight as the domestic automaker winning “Most Likely to Succeed.”

          Ford appears on a few automotive magazine covers next month, and although sales are still slipping badly as they are for all carmakers, Ford’s new line of products is garnering favor among early reviewers. Its Ford 150 pickup won 2009 Truck of the Year. This spring, the Ford Fusion hybrid will hit the market. Ford is refitting a Mexican assembly plant to produce a small car for the American market, the Ford Fiesta, and next year will create a line of small cars with a small delivery truck and electric car.

          Forbes gushes about Ford’s CEO, Alan Mulally:

          Let us not forget the contributions of Alan Mulally, Ford president and chief executive. This ex-Boeing executive may not have known the car industry but seems to have given Ford the stability, purpose, focus and common sense that had been lacking for years.

          The negative side to all this good news for Ford is that the company is blowing through cash, its sales in Europe had been strong but are getting weaker, and because it already mortgaged all its assets for the massive credit line that has put it on more solid financial footing than GM and Chrysler, it has no way of gaining more credit after tapping its final $10 billion credit line. Stock prices are down, and of course auto sales are skyrocketing to unprecedented low levels.

          Despite all this, Ford is better off right now than its Detroit rivals.

          Should a couple of other Detroit icons go down–not that anyone wants them to fall–then Ford would be the last American standing, which could be an advantage.
          February 17th, 2009
          http://www.gmbailout.com/category/ford-bailout/
          This was the most recent on Ford and bail out I could find,

          as far as the company building plants in other parts of the world they have plants all over the world,
          and If the US GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE MORE HOSTILE to manufacturing and business, why not move.

          I think look at your Government as much as at the company,

          ever time a law is made there is "less free enterprise" and when one is in a global market, that makes a big difference,

          and it may be just like John Deere, they have plants in China as well and build John Deere combines and tractors for the Chinese market and Asia markets, they do not ship it to the US, the type of combine they build there is similar to one built here 30 years ago,
          I have a friend in Brazil and he said for years GM and Ford would move the tooling from last last years models in the US to the Brazilian plants and then make them there for a few years, (now this was a number of years ago), if that practice is still in I do not know.

          It could be some what like larger company here having outlets in a number of locations and city's, but on a global market. It spreads some of the risk out as well,
          Last edited by BHD; 09-25-2009, 10:28 AM.
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Ford says Thanks!

            As I recall Ford turned down the money and paid the Union to take over their retirement instead. This is a global economy and Ford has about a 10% market share in Europe. Out of all of the regions where Ford operates the only one they are losing money in is North America. Can you blame them for expanding outside of North America?

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Ford says Thanks!

              I agree with you that we need to try keeping our jobs here. I will not buy a Ford car made in China, and when I make my discretionary purchases I do try to take country of origin into account, but that doesn't mean I never buy Chinese or always buy American. If Ford wants to sell a car in China, it probably needs to build something specialized for that market so the Chinese people can afford it (compared to our cheap cars, which are still pretty luxurious and powerful), and to be honest take advantage of the cheaper labor like the other manufacturers in the Chinese market are doing. If they want to make the most of their R&D dollar, which is still probably mostly in the US, they need to sell cars globally.

              I don't think we can blame corporate America for our economic problems. They exist in an environment that has rules made by the government. The US government has opened our market to the Chi-coms and has let them compete unfairly against our manufacturers by depressing their currency. Given that is the reality these companies are faced with, they have to adapt to survive and provide a return for their shareholders. The purpose for GM to exist wasn't to give jobs to their workers, or even make good cars, it was to turn a profit. They may have provided good jobs, and made good cars, but they utterly failed at turning a profit ... and the shareholders got the shaft.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Ford says Thanks!

                I don't get how these huge auto makers lose money. I like the beans and rice principal. If your tight on money quit spending what you don't have and learn to eat beans and rice and not steak. If your doing well then have that steak and throw in a baked potato with sour cream and butter.

                It makes my blood boil to see these guys overpaying their workers and letting the unions control their companies and in the process they are bankrupting themselves. I know GM went down because they took on bad loans and allowed the union to control way to much. I don't have a problem with unions they have their place but their place is to not run the companies. I think it was great that GM and others are giving medical benefits to those who are retired. However if that is the hole in their ship causing them to sink it's time to find a new solution.

                Auto makers have over complicated vehicles today. The average Joe can't work on their own vehicles with out expensive or special equipment. I wish one of the auto makers would go back to the principals that made them who they are. Good reliable vehicles that are not completely dependent on their computers.

                Green has become a color I despise and I will explain. I want clean water, clean air, litter free forests. What I don't want is the government telling me that I can't drive my truck because of global warming. This country and what business's can do seems to be driven by environmentalist. It drives me nuts. Oregon's economy in the past was driven by timber and timber products. Now the mills are shutting down due to environmentalists lawyers and a bunch of hippies changing them selves to the trees. I spend a lot of time outdoors the timber company replant the trees for crying out loud.

                I noticed I am writing a book here. So I will leave it at that, not like I have an opinion or anything.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Ford says Thanks!

                  Considering that the car that is going to be built there is one that Ford plans to sell all over the world who can blame them for going were production costs are lower? Ford is a worldwide company that just happens to be based in America.
                  Last edited by BadgerDave; 09-25-2009, 01:13 PM.
                  Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Ford says Thanks!

                    This is so frustrating on so many levels, the biggest frustration is not having a clear and focused answer. A few things that really pi** me off is our goverment ( both parties ) not protecting our economic way of life, with a big influence from the " tree huggers" all politics really. Letting an insignificant fish shut down farmers here in Calif., Shipping trees to China and then we buy plywood from them BIGGEST fraud right now ....global warming. I guess thats a real touchy for me seeing how I stocked up on down parkas back in the 70's preparing for the coming ice age

                    I'm a firm believer in being a good steward of our earth, but also believe you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

                    America has been a leader in industry and technology but we're being hamstrung by our "leaders"

                    America is WAY ahead of our global neighbors in reducing our "carbon footprint" America first is something I"m not ashamed to say. America has a long history of helping our global neighbors and coming up with solutions.

                    wookie

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Ford says Thanks!

                      Originally posted by DanLawrence View Post
                      I don't get how these huge auto makers lose money. I like the beans and rice principal. If your tight on money quit spending what you don't have and learn to eat beans and rice and not steak. If your doing well then have that steak and throw in a baked potato with sour cream and butter.

                      It makes my blood boil to see these guys overpaying their workers and letting the unions control their companies and in the process they are bankrupting themselves. I know GM went down because they took on bad loans and allowed the union to control way to much. I don't have a problem with unions they have their place but their place is to not run the companies. I think it was great that GM and others are giving medical benefits to those who are retired. However if that is the hole in their ship causing them to sink it's time to find a new solution.

                      Auto makers have over complicated vehicles today. The average Joe can't work on their own vehicles with out expensive or special equipment. I wish one of the auto makers would go back to the principals that made them who they are. Good reliable vehicles that are not completely dependent on their computers.

                      Green has become a color I despise and I will explain. I want clean water, clean air, litter free forests. What I don't want is the government telling me that I can't drive my truck because of global warming. This country and what business's can do seems to be driven by environmentalist. It drives me nuts. Oregon's economy in the past was driven by timber and timber products. Now the mills are shutting down due to environmentalists lawyers and a bunch of hippies changing them selves to the trees. I spend a lot of time outdoors the timber company replant the trees for crying out loud.

                      I noticed I am writing a book here. So I will leave it at that, not like I have an opinion or anything.
                      Dan, I never worked an assembly line so I don't know what those "overpayed" Union folks deal with, but as a New York Telephone Lineman who was a Union guy I can tell you that working in the backyards of the south bronx knee deep in dirty pampers, used condoms and dog excrement was among the cleaner and safer things I did over the years. Thanks to our Union and us sticking together and enduring long strikes we got better benefits and pay, although none of us got rich we were able to provide for our families and spread that money around by buying homes, cars and vacations we could afford. I get more than pissed when I read some of these posts maligning Union workers who are overpayed without any mention of the thieving bastards that run big companies and wallstreet powerbrokers who ruined the savings of millions of Americans. My pension will never be in jeopardy, that is how wealthy my former employer is, but I guarantee those of you who think we can downsize the American worker and applaud companies that leave the USA in search of the Global dream will be proven wrong. Just as we who pay taxes are making good for the poor business decisions and improper mortages of the recent past, so will we continue to support the unemployed and homeless. We can thank our legislators from both parties, not greedy Union workers for the tens of millions of illegals who take advantage of our porous borders, health care, education and other American offerings. The same legislators who sat by and watched millions of American jobs exit without doing a dam thing. Who pays for this? Who pays for all the unemployed, illegals, bad business, criminal business, wasteful government spending? We do, the employed, Union and nonUnion alike. Hey, you folks think Ford investing in China is a grand idea, fine, just don't complain as your taxes keep going up. Buy the products of communist china, that govenment that crushes Freedom, and feel good that you avoided paying for something made by greedy Union workers here in the USA. I'll end my book here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Ford says Thanks!

                        I'm a bit confused.

                        According to many of you, it is bad when Honda builds a plant in the US, because no matter how beneficial it is to those employed by Honda, supplying parts to Honda, and the local economy profiting from Honda's presence, it is still bad because all the money goes back to Japan.

                        But Ford, who builds cars in probably 30 contries around the world, does the same thing (builds cars locally for the local market) and will bring all the profits back to Detroit (according to the Honda theory) is bad.

                        You can't have it both ways! Ford continuing to make product all over the world to me is a good thing.
                        Steve
                        www.MorrisGarage.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Ford says Thanks!

                          Originally posted by DanLawrence View Post

                          Auto makers have over complicated vehicles today. The average Joe can't work on their own vehicles with out expensive or special equipment. I wish one of the auto makers would go back to the principals that made them who they are. Good reliable vehicles that are not completely dependent on their computers.

                          .
                          Automakers have not overcomplicated vehicles - The government has overcomplicated vehicles. The majority of the excessive complexity/computers/sensors, are there in response to increasingly stringent emissions laws and crash laws. Cars in the 1980's were removing probably 98% of tailpipe emissions, yet the government standards today have cut the remaining 2% to about 1/10th of what it was. Then you add all the electronics for the 8 airbags needed to get a decent crash test rating. I think we are at the point of diminishing returns here. The other thing driving the complexity is consumer demand. 30 years ago the wealthy neighbors had power windows, we did not. Now econoboxes have power windows, and most cars have seats, locks, nav systems, dvd screens, etc.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Ford says Thanks!

                            Originally posted by smorris View Post
                            I'm a bit confused.

                            According to many of you, it is bad when Honda builds a plant in the US, because no matter how beneficial it is to those employed by Honda, supplying parts to Honda, and the local economy profiting from Honda's presence, it is still bad because all the money goes back to Japan.

                            But Ford, who builds cars in probably 30 contries around the world, does the same thing (builds cars locally for the local market) and will bring all the profits back to Detroit (according to the Honda theory) is bad.

                            You can't have it both ways! Ford continuing to make product all over the world to me is a good thing.
                            Companies need to expand to compete in the global economy. BUT being run out of America based on lies, deceit, smoke, mirrors and fabrcated crisis , thats my beef. speaking of beef I guess the buffalo hunters were the original tree huggers , they saw how buffalo farts were ruining the climate Seriously they were not good stewards hope you all get where I'm coming from

                            wookie

                            Actually looking to raise a couple of buffalo, smarter than beef and real tasty!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Ford says Thanks!

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              Dan, I never worked an assembly line so I don't know what those "overpayed" Union folks deal with, but as a New York Telephone Lineman who was a Union guy I can tell you that working in the backyards of the south bronx knee deep in dirty pampers, used condoms and dog excrement was among the cleaner and safer things I did over the years. Thanks to our Union and us sticking together and enduring long strikes we got better benefits and pay, although none of us got rich we were able to provide for our families and spread that money around by buying homes, cars and vacations we could afford. I get more than pissed when I read some of these posts maligning Union workers who are overpayed without any mention of the thieving bastards that run big companies and wallstreet powerbrokers who ruined the savings of millions of Americans. My pension will never be in jeopardy, that is how wealthy my former employer is, but I guarantee those of you who think we can downsize the American worker and applaud companies that leave the USA in search of the Global dream will be proven wrong. Just as we who pay taxes are making good for the poor business decisions and improper mortages of the recent past, so will we continue to support the unemployed and homeless. We can thank our legislators from both parties, not greedy Union workers for the tens of millions of illegals who take advantage of our porous borders, health care, education and other American offerings. The same legislators who sat by and watched millions of American jobs exit without doing a dam thing. Who pays for this? Who pays for all the unemployed, illegals, bad business, criminal business, wasteful government spending? We do, the employed, Union and nonUnion alike. Hey, you folks think Ford investing in China is a grand idea, fine, just don't complain as your taxes keep going up. Buy the products of communist china, that govenment that crushes Freedom, and feel good that you avoided paying for something made by greedy Union workers here in the USA. I'll end my book here.



                              Like I said Unions have their place. If you look at the issue with GM the Unions where holding contracts over their heads that where bringing the company down. I have no problem with Unions as long as they work with the company and find a common ground that allows the business to succeed and for the workers to be treated and paid a fair compensation for what they do. In business there has to be a balance between company profits and for pay and benefits for it's employees. Again I am knocking on unions there are good unions and there are bad unions. In the case of the auto industry the unions have over stepped their bounds and have to much power. The employees in this case are over paid. I am not saying that all union workers are. You took what I said out of context, I was specifically talking about the auto industry.

                              Frankiarmz I agree with a lot of what you said but I respectfully disagree with other parts of it as well. Big auto, big oil, big bank they provide jobs for millions of americans. I don't see them as evil they do alot of good for the U.S. economy Yes, they need some one to speak as one voice for the employees to try an get them better bennefits and wages. My wife worked at Walmart for a few months during a rough time so we could buy my son Christmas presents. They treat their employees very poorly and pay them very poorly as well. They need a union! There is a time and a place for union but not in the every day business of a company.

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