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  • #16
    Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    Make no mistake I would assume he is there to harm my family just because he is there. However, 8-rounds of #2 bird shot is quite the equalizer. If I am not mistaken that is right around 120 pellets of burning pain.

    Mark
    You must be a good shot. I instead prefer standard double-ought buckshot - one good shot, and one pellet more than does the duty.

    Again, all this is said with a Canadian grain of salt - we have different use-of-force issues here for civilian home-defence purposes.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

      Originally posted by canucksartech View Post
      You must be a good shot. I instead prefer standard double-ought buckshot - one good shot, and one pellet more than does the duty.

      Again, all this is said with a Canadian grain of salt - we have different use-of-force issues here for civilian home-defence purposes.
      If someone is coming after me at night they are coming down my hallway. I don't have to be a good shot to stop them there.

      Mark

      BTW: After 35-years of upland hunting I'm a fairly good shot as well.
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        It seems killing an intruder might be overkill but I am not against inflecting enough hurt on him to stop him in his tracks.
        The thing is, at least I know the way it is on this side (law enforcement, as well as civilian), is that there is no authorization to "wound". If you are shooting, you are shooting to "stop and/or repel the threat of 'serious bodily harm or death'" from the assailant [obvious exception of this is in tactical situations, with full authority being forwarded through the chain of command]. If I'm shooting, I'm shooting for the full stopage / knockdown. If an inquiry afterwards reveals you saying, "I used birdshot because I knew I wouldn't kill him, but would just repel him instead", then you open yourself up to a plethora of charges and civil liabilities. Same idea with shots to the back/arse, as he's running away potentially, to just continue to repel him.

        If a shot is needed, it's because the assailant is threatening the life and safety of someone - if warnings don't stop them, then there is no other alternative. 00 buckshot, or if need-be slugs (but messy/overkill), are best for shotgun use (yes, shotgun is best for defensive purposes, in many opinions).

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          If someone is coming after me at night they are coming down my hallway. I don't have to be a good shot to stop them there.

          Mark

          BTW: After 35-years of upland hunting I'm a fairly good shot as well.
          LOL. True, granted. For close quarters, you can't beat it. I wasn't sure how big of a property you have, and whether that came into play, so that's what I was thinking of.

          Should we wear blaze orange for upland bad-*** hunting of intruders in your house at night too?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
            for me it's a water baloon sling shot

            isn't that right bill

            p.s it wasn't me


            rick.
            Too bad your score was like 1-for-30 or something like that.

            At that rate, you can ask the bad guy to start making coffee for you first before you take him out.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

              Originally posted by Woussko View Post
              So as not to have to deal with police and ATF officers, I'm a bit more inventive. Anyone wanting to make or actually making trouble won't soon forget what I gave them, but it's not lead or steel. I'll give you a little hint. What I use is actually are safety devices that every home should have several of and within quick reach. Their intended use isn't for use on nasty animals or people, but they sure will make both think again before going on the attack.

              Let's see who can figure out what these devices might be. Please think and get inventive.
              Hmmmm. An industrial strength cattle-prod or electric fence? Can you say, "Home Alone"?!
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

                Originally posted by canucksartech View Post
                The thing is, at least I know the way it is on this side (law enforcement, as well as civilian), is that there is no authorization to "wound". If you are shooting, you are shooting to "stop and/or repel the threat of 'serious bodily harm or death'" from the assailant [obvious exception of this is in tactical situations, with full authority being forwarded through the chain of command]. If I'm shooting, I'm shooting for the full stopage / knockdown. If an inquiry afterwards reveals you saying, "I used birdshot because I knew I wouldn't kill him, but would just repel him instead", then you open yourself up to a plethora of charges and civil liabilities. Same idea with shots to the back/arse, as he's running away potentially, to just continue to repel him.

                If a shot is needed, it's because the assailant is threatening the life and safety of someone - if warnings don't stop them, then there is no other alternative. 00 buckshot, or if need-be slugs (but messy/overkill), are best for shotgun use (yes, shotgun is best for defensive purposes, in many opinions).
                Until recently all three of my sons and one son-in-law carried guns for a living. One of my sons left law enforcement after 10-years to pursue his career as a commercial helicopter pilot. My remaining son in law shoots competitively so we've had these talks a lot. I am fairly convinced I am not ready to kill someone over material possessions I can replace. If they come in at night I can't see well enough (no glasses) to shoot them with a pistol or a slug but I believe the end of a shotgun will send them running. If not they will get a bunch of #4 in the face.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

                  Originally posted by Tyman View Post
                  Glad everything worked out for you Frank.

                  Keep in mind that under great stress, fine motor skills take a back seat. Fumbling with a key can be very difficult.

                  Prepare, Practice, Pray it never happens.
                  The timing of the trigger lock being used and this incident was amazing. I joked with my buddy that he was in on the attempted break in, glad we were able to laugh about it. I agree that the at the time my blood pressure and nerves were peaked. The mind and body go from a relaxed state to high alert in seconds. Good thing my wife was on the front line to slow'em down whlie I geared up

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

                    My neighborhood was actually really calm and peaceful this year

                    We couldn't find the great pumpkin though

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                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                      Until recently all three of my sons and one son-in-law carried guns for a living. One of my sons left law enforcement after 10-years to pursue his career as a commercial helicopter pilot. My remaining son in law shoots competitively so we've had these talks a lot. I am fairly convinced I am not ready to kill someone over material possessions I can replace. If they come in at night I can't see well enough (no glasses) to shoot them with a pistol or a slug but I believe the end of a shotgun will send them running. If not they will get a bunch of #4 in the face.

                      Mark
                      All noted. Regarding the one point you list, "...I am fairly convinced I am not ready to kill someone over material possessions I can replace...", that's exactly a bullseye on it's own. That's the primary difference between Canada and the U.S. For you guys, you have the right to bear arms and the right to use lethal force with those arms. With all of this, and with the various case and/or common law that you have in place down there, Americans have in essence the legal right (moral right is another story) to defend basically anything (life, property, animals, cars, etc., etc.) with lethal force with firearms. For us up here, there is legal justitification only (not an intrinsic "right" per say) to use lethal force to defend life (yours, family member, a member of the public near or around you, etc.), but not property, cars, etc.

                      That's why we always shriek when you hear that someone was shot and killed to defend from someone stealing their ATV or something like that, even when the assailants weren't showing a lethal threat towards the property owner. Then you always hear the quotes, when asked why they did so (kill the person over an ATV), "...because it was my right," or something along that lines.

                      For us, you kill to defend life, period, whether civilian or police. Everything else, like you said Mark, can be replaced through insurance coverage.

                      Life for life - that's the only excusable/allowable use of lethal force, IMO, an that of most Canadians (maybe most Americans too, who knows).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        The timing of the trigger lock being used and this incident was amazing. I joked with my buddy that he was in on the attempted break in, glad we were able to laugh about it. I agree that the at the time my blood pressure and nerves were peaked. The mind and body go from a relaxed state to high alert in seconds. Good thing my wife was on the front line to slow'em down whlie I geared up
                        All my trigger locks are combination versions - all keyed with the same combo, so the number is well ingrained in my memory, and with no keys to lose.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          If they come in at night I can't see well enough (no glasses) to shoot them with a pistol or a slug but I believe the end of a shotgun will send them running. If not they will get a bunch of #4 in the face.

                          Mark
                          Also, the sound of an 870 racking a shell into the chamber can do wonders for making a bad guy pee himself in the dark, and pull a 180 very VERY fast. There's no better psychological threat than hearing that sound if you've broken into someone's house. "Chic, chic!"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Home Defense on Halloween Eve

                            Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                            So as not to have to deal with police and ATF officers, I'm a bit more inventive. Anyone wanting to make or actually making trouble won't soon forget what I gave them, but it's not lead or steel. I'll give you a little hint. What I use is actually are safety devices that every home should have several of and within quick reach. Their intended use isn't for use on nasty animals or people, but they sure will make both think again before going on the attack.

                            Let's see who can figure out what these devices might be. Please think and get inventive.


                            For crying out loud, I want the answer! lol

                            Comment

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