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fall of the Berlin wall

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  • fall of the Berlin wall

    WOW that was a fast 20 years. That was a big day for me. I thought for sure the wall would not come down in my life and we would eventually go to war with the Soviets.

  • #2
    Re: fall of the Berlin wall

    I guess Obama backed out of attending at the last minute because of a scheduling conflict which has many Germans upset. I wonder who in his cabinet could not figure out when twenty years after November 9, 1989 would be?

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: fall of the Berlin wall

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      I guess Obama backed out of attending at the last minute because of a scheduling conflict which has many Germans upset. I wonder who in his cabinet could not figure out when twenty years after November 9, 1989 would be?

      Mark
      I'm just curious as to what he saw as more important than commemorating millions of German's and Eastern Europeans gaining freedom.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: fall of the Berlin wall

        Originally posted by cpw View Post
        I'm just curious as to what he saw as more important than commemorating millions of German's and Eastern Europeans gaining freedom.
        They say he is "preparing" for an Asian trip. There are a lot of people who feel it was because Germany did not let him use the Berlin Wall as a campaign stop during his European tour.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: fall of the Berlin wall

          Mr. Obama take down that tax wall!
          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: fall of the Berlin wall

            Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
            Mr. Obama take down that tax wall!
            Yeah why not in both USA and Europe

            Speaking of Berlin wall I was there when it was tear down the news travel very fast when they start to tear it down.
            That was a wonderfull event to see it comming down.

            Merci, Marc

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: fall of the Berlin wall

              Originally posted by cpw View Post
              I'm just curious as to what he saw as more important than commemorating millions of German's and Eastern Europeans gaining freedom.
              He's not really interested I guess.
              Obama also brushed off celebrations of the defeat of communist 5 months prior. That's when the wall went down.


              This is an actual election poster from Poland. The first free elections in any communist country post WW2.

              The writing on the picture says:
              "Solidarity. High noon June 4th 1989"



              I remember watching the Berlin Wall being dismantled, and I watched it with quite a bit of disappointment that East Germans waited almost half a year after it's been already done! And even then, they did so after communist propaganda officer actually signaled on state TV they would be now allowed to cross the wall.
              In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: fall of the Berlin wall

                Originally posted by frenchelectrican View Post
                Yeah why not in both USA and Europe

                Speaking of Berlin wall I was there when it was tear down the news travel very fast when they start to tear it down.
                That was a wonderfull event to see it comming down.

                Merci, Marc
                Ca va Marc!
                Amazing times! Thanks for sharing that!
                You brought an instant smile to my face with that story!
                The east had it really bad!
                Ever drive a Trabant?!
                A car with a two stroke engine.
                You added oil with the gas (Under the hood)
                and then were supposed to shake the car to mix it up.
                No fuel gauges in these things.
                Word was you used a stick to measure gas.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: fall of the Berlin wall

                  Originally posted by darius View Post
                  He's not really interested I guess.
                  Obama also brushed off celebrations of the defeat of communist 5 months prior. That's when the wall went down.


                  This is an actual election poster from Poland. The first free elections in any communist country post WW2.

                  The writing on the picture says:
                  "Solidarity. High noon June 4th 1989"



                  I remember watching the Berlin Wall being dismantled, and I watched it with quite a bit of disappointment that East Germans waited almost half a year after it's been already done! And even then, they did so after communist propaganda officer actually signaled on state TV they would be now allowed to cross the wall.
                  I was hoping you would comment on this since you lived it. I've often wondered why the berlin wall was bigger for me then what happened in Poland. Seems you Poles Took a considerably bigger risk before anyone else. At least NPR talks about Poland's great accomplishment.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: fall of the Berlin wall

                    Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                    I was hoping you would comment on this since you lived it. I've often wondered why the berlin wall was bigger for me then what happened in Poland. Seems you Poles Took a considerably bigger risk before anyone else. At least NPR talks about Poland's great accomplishment.
                    I can't say why Berlin wall was bigger for you because that would be putting words in your mouth. All I can do is offer my opinion why this is in fact a prevailing trend.

                    I think it's all about easy consumption. Who in the US would remember, or even care to remember unpronounceable Polish last names? "Berlin Wall" is so much easier. And Poland had no easy symbol to be imprinted in people's minds. After all Reagan did not ask Gorbachev to honor the Gdansk Accords. Instead, understandably, he asked "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall". That album by Pink Floyd couldn't have harmed the cause either.

                    Besides, Poland was never anywhere close to the focal interest of the US. It has been a gateway to the Eastern block due to it's relative openness and freedom within the Block. Actually it was Roosevelt who betrayed Poles during WW2 as some of his goals could not have been achieved without Poles, and then he pretty much gave Poland away to Stalin.

                    As for the risks, I think life was tougher in East Germany. Not in a material sense, but rather political one. Germans have had little to zero experience of the Russian boot, while Polish experience was quite extensive. Also, Poles appear to be some of the most difficult people to rule (wherever two Poles meet there are three opinions) and are genetically allergic to communism. Polish Catholicism played a big part. Mine was the only commie block country where they did not manage to weed religion out.

                    The entire Polish culture after WW2 was that of resistance to communism and occupying Soviet forces. From the obvious, such the many uprisings, to subtle things in every day life. Such as the compulsory Russian in schools (8 years of it)and how it was considered dishonor to have anything better than a minimum passing grade in Russian. If you got a good mark on a Russian test you would likely fail the next one to average down.

                    East Germans were different. They were an ideal society to rule since they had been obedient. But, on the second thought, that is probably not a fair assessment. They did have an uprising of their own (hence the wall was built) and they must have been beat really bad, so they stopped at that.

                    Eventually the succumbed completely. The degree of indoctrination was astounding. Poles were indoctrinated too, but we knew it was all buls.hit so if we had to say something (for instance to pass an exam) we would not say that "this is so" but rather that "the book says it is so". A little thing, nothing to jail you for or erect a monument for you, but an obvious sign of resistance. Another one is in my avatar. It is well explained in a Wikipedia entry.

                    Day in, day out we knew we lived in one big jail and we wanted out. Sometimes only humor could keep us going. American support at the time was of great help too. The portable radio stations, printing presses etc, all that kept us focused on the final goal of freedom.

                    Again, East German reality was nothing like ours. While there were some informants in Poland (about 98,000 in a nation of 36 million), in GDR there were 2 million (in a nation of 15 million) - 1 out of 7 citizens, children included! East Germans were so indoctrinated, and in fact so afraid, it reflected on their personal lives. A girl friend of mine, a girl from Zwickau, GDR (that where the Trabant was manufactured) was told by some political jerk in GDR she was no longer allowed to see me because I was politically detrimental to her. And thus my love affair with one Katrin was terminated on the order of, likely, some STASI officer.

                    Back to the wall. The fact East Germans waited so long goes to show their spirit of freedom was nearly killed. Perhaps because Germans never before had to fight for freedom. A generation was born devoid of any sense of truth and reality. Once their parents had the courage to approach the Wall in numbers, they felt the strength they didn't imagine they had but we all hoped they did.

                    woops, I guess I rambled a little too much.
                    In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: fall of the Berlin wall

                      Darius you did not ramble at all. Thanks for the response.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: fall of the Berlin wall

                        Leck Walensa. How is that for a Polish name that is easy to remember. I bet most Americans much over 40 with a lick of interest in the world know of Leck Walensa.. Forgive the spelling.

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