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  • #46
    Re: global warming

    Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
    I agree 110%. However, the way the global economy is currently configured, nationality is losing relevance. Multinational corporations simply move their operations to the lowest cost business environment. They have no allegiance to a nation or its people. They serve the consumer and require the lowest cost production available.

    This is how capitalism works. And capitalism is the universal truth these days.
    I would agree this is how capitalism "operates", but as they kill off their consumer base I believe their universal truth is about to get turned upside down. American dollars will continue to bleed from our economy to pay slave wages and corporate earnings, until there are so many Americans unemployed and our government is so in debt that something catastrophic happens.

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    • #47
      Re: global warming

      Talked to a buddy of mine who spends the Winters in his St. Petersburg Beach Florida home. He said it's the coldest weather he has ever remembered, and many homes are without heat. He said a lot of folks are using electric or propane space heaters, and propane is had to come by. He said it's fifty degrees in his Florida house, I told him it's seventy in my CT house.

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      • #48
        Re: global warming

        There is a consensus that there is global warming, OK , So what?

        There is absolutely NO consensus that it is caused by man.
        Furthermore, mother earth itself contributes 99.5% of the so called carbon emissions with no help from any of us.

        Now if you will excuse me, I'm heading outside to start and let idle every single damn thing I own with an engine in hopes of bring the damn temperature up because it's been cold as hell here for the past two weeks and I'm tired of stoking the wood stove
        sigpic

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        • #49
          Re: global warming

          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
          There is absolutely NO consensus that it is caused by man.
          Actually the consensus we are referring to is for anthropic global warming or AGW. That specifically is a consensus agreeing it is causes by man.

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          • #50
            Re: global warming

            Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
            Actually the consensus we are referring to is for anthropic global warming or AGW. That specifically is a consensus agreeing it is causes by man.
            Ah shucks, there you go again with facts. Now see, he's going to have to go all 'Glen Beck' on ya!

            I don't think people really appreciate just how delicate the balance is. We're able to put on more clothes, turn up the heat or turn on the AC and to a great extent maintain our immediate environment in not just a livable range but comfortable.

            The food chain we rely upon doesn't have this luxury and as places freeze (yes there will be freezing) and bake, populations will adjust, migrate or die off.

            The next great war won't be over oil. It will be over fresh water. Water tables have been tapped and drained faster than they can be restored. We live in a land of plenty, not limitless.

            A simple degree or two Celsius is a major difference.

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            • #51
              Re: global warming

              How much has the earth warmed since the Ice Age and was the warming caused by man? And what caused the Ice Age to begin with?
              When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

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              • #52
                Re: global warming

                Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                Ah shucks, there you go again with facts. Now see, he's going to have to go all 'Glen Beck' on ya!

                I don't think people really appreciate just how delicate the balance is. We're able to put on more clothes, turn up the heat or turn on the AC and to a great extent maintain our immediate environment in not just a livable range but comfortable.

                The food chain we rely upon doesn't have this luxury and as places freeze (yes there will be freezing) and bake, populations will adjust, migrate or die off.

                The next great war won't be over oil. It will be over fresh water. Water tables have been tapped and drained faster than they can be restored. We live in a land of plenty, not limitless.

                A simple degree or two Celsius is a major difference.
                I don't think people who really believe in global warming appreciate the urgency of stabilizing and fixing our economy and the importance of having all countries onboard when addressing global warming. Think of the problem of global warming as a meal you are about to eat at some restaurant. There are six or seven people involved with the preparation and serving of your food, and you complain to the manager that the waitress scratched her butt and touched your food. She gets fired and you assume the problem is solved, unfortunately the guy who handled the raw food did not wash his hands after using the bathroom, the cook sneezed on your food, the dishwasher had a fungal infection on his hands and so on. The "globe" is not just the USA and while we would be doing future generations a service to address the growing problem of global warming, we are dooming ourselves and them to not resolve our more urgent problems. Certainly, china, india and other big polluters don't give a rat's behind about global warming or our pending economic doom. We won't be in much a position to fight that future war over fresh water or any war prior to it unless we get ourselves economically healed and fast.
                Last edited by Frankiarmz; 01-06-2010, 08:20 PM.

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                • #53
                  Re: global warming

                  Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                  Ah shucks, there you go again with facts. Now see, he's going to have to go all 'Glen Beck' on ya!

                  I don't think people really appreciate just how delicate the balance is. We're able to put on more clothes, turn up the heat or turn on the AC and to a great extent maintain our immediate environment in not just a livable range but comfortable.

                  The food chain we rely upon doesn't have this luxury and as places freeze (yes there will be freezing) and bake, populations will adjust, migrate or die off.

                  The next great war won't be over oil. It will be over fresh water. Water tables have been tapped and drained faster than they can be restored. We live in a land of plenty, not limitless.

                  A simple degree or two Celsius is a major difference.
                  Yes and no, believe it or not, but human consumption only makes up 40% of the water, the rest is used in industrial production.

                  I highly doubt war would be implemented at all over water. Instead, if businesses have a fraction of influence we believe in government affairs, a more profitable solution will take effect: Reverse Osmosis plants that intake seawater into potable water. There are a few such plants already in the middle east, and more under construction for that very reason. When I was in Qatar, I learned that a few of the smaller nations are currently using the revenue generated from oil drilling to fund such initiatives. They know that when their oil reserve runs out, they can instead trade or sell water for other goods and services.

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                  • #54
                    Re: global warming

                    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                    There is a consensus that there is global warming, OK , So what?

                    There is absolutely NO consensus that it is caused by man.
                    Furthermore, mother earth itself contributes 99.5% of the so called carbon emissions with no help from any of us.

                    Now if you will excuse me, I'm heading outside to start and let idle every single damn thing I own with an engine in hopes of bring the damn temperature up because it's been cold as hell here for the past two weeks and I'm tired of stoking the wood stove
                    Please don`t its 28c here today and will be 38c tomorrow (100+) and the water is lovely.

                    Tony

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                    • #55
                      Re: global warming

                      In Yamhill county we have some of the most fertile soil in the world. It use to be an agricultural county. Developers came in, made the farmers offers on their land they could not refuse, and started building houses.

                      There isn't enough water to support ag and residential interests. Something will eventually have to give. Not only was ag there first, but ag is ultimately much more important than spiffy new tract housing for people that want to get away from the city by being on the ground floor of a new city being built.

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                      • #56
                        Re: global warming

                        You should burn their houses to the ground. How dare people buy up land and build houses where they want. that's so un American. Manhattan was fertile ground a few hundred years ago also. Come to think of it, the entire world would be better off if all the damn people would just go away or at least just let the "chosen ones" stay.
                        sigpic

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                        • #57
                          Re: global warming

                          Spiff, if you don't want people to build on the farmland, go buy it yourself and farm it. It's sad to see it happen but I can't blame the farmer for selling for a healthy profit. Especially when you figure all of the farmers around him will sell even if he holds out. Then they'll drive him out for noise pollution or dust or mud on the road. Even if they knew that they knew they were moving in next to a farm. They ran out drag racing at PIR because of the noise. It didn't matter that the strip was there way before the houses were.
                          www.ClinkscalesSeptic.com

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                          • #58
                            Re: global warming

                            We need farms more than we need boutique bedroom communities. The independent farmers are having a tough go of it as it is, competing with the 21st century share croppers run by Monsanto and ADM.

                            Centralized populations are more efficient and less expensive. Distribution of goods and services is limited to a specific area. Transportation requirements are minimized.

                            New developments require power transmission lines, cable lines, phone lines, hiways, bridges and so on. These infrastructures are subsidized in large part by utility rates and taxes. Communities are generally responsible for water, sewer and public services (you know, those socialist services like police and fire).

                            Perhaps Manhattan was great farm land 300 years ago. The US did not have 300+ million mouths to feed either.

                            I realize that some people think urban sprawl is not a problem and every man has a god (god of your choice) given right to own land and do with that land whatever they want.

                            I disagree to an extent. I guess that makes me un-American in your book.

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                            • #59
                              Re: global warming

                              Today as yesterday we hit 71 F above zero in Glendale Arizona...
                              I left Chicago after the winter of 1979.

                              Today I called an old friend in Chicago and simply asked him:

                              "So? how's that global warming working for you??"

                              He immediately hung up on me.....

                              I wonder where good old "AL" is..I suspect New Zealand claiming "look global warming has just hit your country"!!!!!!

                              Let's see..... winter...typically really cold and snow
                              spring ...we thaw out and get our air conditioners ready.
                              summer....we enjoy the warmth, play outside and forget about winter
                              fall..........we marvel as the tree leaves change colors and nature prepares
                              for the next event.....
                              winter...damn here we go again really cold and snow.

                              I think I see some sort of cycle here!

                              It's been like this for a long time and I bet it will continue unless obama changes the names of the seasons.


                              Cactus Man

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                              • #60
                                Re: global warming

                                The global warming argument in the US is pretty clear cut antidotal evidence trumps all facts. Facts have little to do with out politics. Any fact brought out on any issue is obviously a conspiracy made up by those science people. Science is evil and should be disregarded.

                                Idiocracy is the American way no one else will tell us what is true. If we want something to be true we'll make it up.

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