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What Was Lost

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  • What Was Lost

    The Thread "More Change" touched on businesses and tax breaks used as incentives to entice them, and the jobs they provide. I wanted to talk about that without side tracking the orignal Thread. Our communities lost many businesses over the years, some moved from the Northeast further South where the taxes and salaries were lower. Eventually many companies moved out of the USA altogether. One that comes to my mind was "Swingline" the folks who make staplers. I remember their huge facility in Astoria, NY, they employed hundreds of workers. The jobs at Swingline and in many other manufacturing plants across America that were lost, paid folks a living wage. Unlike the jobs at Walmart and Costco, those Swingline workers were able to reach pay grades where they could afford to buy a house and actually pay the mortgage. They could buy a car and make the payments. They could help a child with college or take a family vacation. Those factory workers did not get rich, they did not bankrupt their companies or steal from Wallstreet, they supported our economy and grew America! Now we give tax incentives to businesses that return little to the community, pay minimum wages and few benefits. These stores sell Swingline staplers made in mexico and products made in china, india and elsewhere around the world. Stores don't make anything, they don't build pride and grow America. The poor among us can't afford homes, cars, college or vacations. The wealthy cannot consume the glut of homes and cars collecting dust and sitting idle, they cannot support entire industries as did the once working middle class. Tax breaks, bailouts, stimulus and every other government farse will not undo the damage. We cannot consume our way out of this mess, we can't change it by raising or lowering taxes, in my opinion we need to be a productive society. Does either political party have a plan to make America productive? I'm not talking about a speech about jobs, but an actual plan. I have not heard or seen anything yet and I don't expect either party will produce such a plan. They will keep incurring debt, pushing their own party agenda and attacking eachother. Too much was lost in my eyes.

  • #2
    Re: What Was Lost

    One nice thing about having your currency crash is that all of a sudden you become cheap labor and a lot of those factories will come back.

    The nice thing about the U.S. is that we have TONS of resources so that if and when the **** hits the fan we'll be okay in the end. North America has a lot more oil sitting underground than the middle east but it's tougher to get to. Once the middle east dries up they will be screwed and we will be sitting pretty with oil, coal, lumber, natural gas, great farmland, and most importantly - lots of fresh water. Plus we have this forum :-D

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    • #3
      Re: What Was Lost

      Originally posted by Mr. Ooter View Post
      One nice thing about having your currency crash is that all of a sudden you become cheap labor and a lot of those factories will come back.

      The nice thing about the U.S. is that we have TONS of resources so that if and when the **** hits the fan we'll be okay in the end. North America has a lot more oil sitting underground than the middle east but it's tougher to get to. Once the middle east dries up they will be screwed and we will be sitting pretty with oil, coal, lumber, natural gas, great farmland, and most importantly - lots of fresh water. Plus we have this forum :-D
      I'm afraid we would have to sink a long way to reach the slave wages of the third world, and if that happened how would we be able to afford the products our new factories and slave wages provided?

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      • #4
        Re: What Was Lost

        It will be okay, Comrade :-D. You don't think they went headstrong into ruining our economy without a plan for salvation did you? They're going to have to break the dollar before they can come out with the Amero or worse..

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        • #5
          Re: What Was Lost

          I'm a bit more pessimistic.

          The financial elite, the power brokers as it were, in the long run don't need the American workforce or consumers. With markets emerging around the world, Americans are less valuable.

          China and India are far bigger apples than the US. Were I a captain of industry I would be focusing resources in those regions. Capitalism has no allegiance to a country or an obligation to its people.

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          • #6
            Re: What Was Lost

            Originally posted by Mr. Ooter View Post
            One nice thing about having your currency crash is that all of a sudden you become cheap labor and a lot of those factories will come back.

            The nice thing about the U.S. is that we have TONS of resources so that if and when the **** hits the fan we'll be okay in the end. North America has a lot more oil sitting underground than the middle east but it's tougher to get to. Once the middle east dries up they will be screwed and we will be sitting pretty with oil, coal, lumber, natural gas, great farmland, and most importantly - lots of fresh water. Plus we have this forum :-D
            Nice thought, but do you think the Enviromentalists will let us touch any of it? I think not!

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            • #7
              Re: What Was Lost

              we will probably never restore our industrial base. The damage goes much deeper than cost of doing business alone. There is an attitude in this nation that certain jogs are beneath us, so we leave those jobs to the illegal aliens. There is a perception that is is better to collect unemployment and welfare than to take a menial job, and in fact, quite often welfare pays better than the menial job so why work. Worst of all is the perception that this nation owes us something. America does not owe us anything, we owe America.

              Three projects that in themselves have no pressing need to be done but if done, would begin a wave of prosperity that would sweep the nation and perhaps the world. All of these projects would bring new technologies and products to the market place and bring on a new era of manufacturing and development.

              1 - Manned colony on the moon
              2 - Manned mission to Mars
              3 - Manned colony beneath the ocean

              Probably, you can think of a few yourself. This is what the president should lobbying for, instead of wasting time with Copenhagen, the Olympics, and trying to pass a healthcare bill that nobody wants or likes.
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              • #8
                Re: What Was Lost

                Those are overpaid science projects. Maybe we need to look here for rebuilding. Rebuild all the bridges and roads for example?
                Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                • #9
                  Re: What Was Lost

                  Rebuilding bridges and roads does not spawn new technology and innovation which in turn drives new manufacturing and industry.

                  At the turn of the century, the automobile and the airplane both spawned multiple other inventions and innovations that made this country the industrial power house that it once was.
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                  • #10
                    Re: What Was Lost

                    I didn't see a quick jaunt over to Copenhagen to make a pitch for the Olympics as a distraction. It isn't like he flies off to Crawford at the drop of a hat. Compared to the last guy in the white house, Obama is a workaholic.

                    I do agree that science is our ticket forward.

                    Fast nuetron reactor would be a huge step forward in solving our energy needs AND reducing the current supply of waste that no one wants in their backyard.

                    NASA designed a solar panel that is able to absorb multiple wavelengths of light, converting them in to energy. Current panels are tune to a much narrower band. The NASA panels are currently in use on the Mars rovers. The Rovers have lasted far longer than they could have ever hoped for in large part due to the amount of light the panels are able to capture.

                    Battery technology. Fast lithium-ion charging technology is out there. Graduate students at Standford are able to reduce the charge time from 30 minutes to about 9 seconds. Of course this is under tightly control conditions, but it is possible.

                    Off grid residential power. Imagine not have to pay the utility companies for electricity and gas. Tens of millions of residential houses producing all the power they for themselves.

                    LED lighting. Phillips has developed a LED light that produces an incandescent glow yet consumes a fraction of the power of an incandescent bulb. Once the economy of scale kicks in we can get rid of our incandescent bulbs and the ugly light cast by the fluorescent bulbs.

                    And there are things we do right now that don't require new technology. How about synchronizing traffic lights so that traffic flows with less interruption? All that stopping and acceleration is wasted energy.

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                    • #11
                      Re: What Was Lost

                      See Spiff, we can agree on things Speaking of batteries did you see that someone has come up with one that's as thin as a sheet of paper. The possibilities are mind boggling.

                      Copenhagen though was a total waste of time and effort by not only Obama, but everyone else that attended.
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                      • #12
                        Re: What Was Lost

                        I believe that most of us share more common beliefs than the few ideas that find us at odds.

                        Have a Merry Christmas.

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