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Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

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  • #16
    Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

    Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
    Even when that stuff is local, it doesn't mean it is automatically better. Local food suppy companies have pulled a few stunts of their own that makes me question the quality of what we eat. Upstate New York for example: You know "Beech-Nut" off of I-90? Years ago, they were slapped with a severe lawsuit for false advertising. They perported to selling apple juice in their containers, when in fact there wasn't one drop of apple juice in their products at all. It was all artificial flavoring.
    This is true, however, the money stayed in our local economy through payroll, taxes, etc..
    www.ClinkscalesSeptic.com

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    • #17
      Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

      The business model will destroy us.

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      • #18
        Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

        I think it's time to revisit the definition of "Capitalism". I googled the word and according to one source, the definiton has somewhat varied throughout history.Generally speaking there is a combination of privately owned business and goods and labor traded for profit with varying government involvement.
        Whatever the previous definitions described, I would imagine the overall system worked to the benefit of the "Captialists", folks in charge at the top. The time has come to rethink how that system works when taken to a logical conclusion as seen in our society. However this system of Capitalism plays out, history will remember the loss of business, industry and labor from our country, which supported the system by consumation of goods, to the cheaper and more profitable markets of the third world. History will include the decline of our economy and standard of living, I believe as a direct result of this transition to cheaper labor. I think for Capitalism to remain viable there must be a strong consumer base. We were that base and unless there is another to replace us, this version of Capitalism is doomed.

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        • #19
          Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

          It's funny, I went to Wal Mart to get some orange slices and starlite mints. This thread got me thinking so I looked, sure enough made in Mexico.
          I immediately put them back figuring I wouldn't opt for Mexican surgery either.

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          • #20
            Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

            Originally posted by stokefire7 View Post
            It's funny, I went to Wal Mart to get some orange slices and starlite mints. This thread got me thinking so I looked, sure enough made in Mexico.
            I immediately put them back figuring I wouldn't opt for Mexican surgery either.
            This link talks about Hershey's plans to cut jobs in the USA and move production to mexico and abroad. Their prices won't drop and their profits will increase as they eliminate greedy, "Union" workers who pay taxes and support their economy. Progress and capitalism? I don't think so.
            http://www.manufacturing.net/article...d=139991&terms
            Last edited by Frankiarmz; 01-08-2010, 03:17 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              Their prices won't drop and their profits will increase as they eliminate greedy, "Union" workers who pay taxes and support their economy.
              But the stock holders will love it. To them, it's a win/win situation. The consumer will be none the wiser that production costs decreased and share holders will rejoice in the increased profits.

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              • #22
                Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                But the stock holders will love it. To them, it's a win/win situation. The consumer will be none the wiser that production costs decreased and share holders will rejoice in the increased profits.
                I don't know how much of that profit will trickle down to investors, but if they are Americans, the cost of more unemployed Americans unable to make car payments, mortgage payments and other factors will hardly be worth it. I have the same thoughts about Americans who rave about the low cost of hiring illegals. When the cost of paying unemployed Americans who have been displaced by this "cheaper" work force is added to the many government programs they avail themselves of, or burden, the final cost is really not so cheap. Generally speaking I believe if we were to examine the value of stocks reaching back to when many companies were located in the USA as opposed to the present day when they are outside of our country, I believe we would find most stock holders have nothing to rejoice over.

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                • #23
                  Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                  While I agree completely with your last post, I will add that while the average investor may not see a large change in their holdings, the majority holders will. And that is why it was done. For them it is a matter of dollars and cents. Sure they may lose a little on the back end in some form of taxation, but what they stand to gain exceeds the downside so significantly as to not really be a concern.

                  Wage earners don't have the advantages of those whose living is derived from capital gains. And it is no accident that wage earners pay a higher rate and have less access to loopholes than the financial elite. I'm guessing mighty few of us here have enough money to entice a Swiss banker.

                  Corporations are beginning to realize that they do not need America any longer. And they certainly don't need our work force. One World Order is not far from the reality.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                    Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                    While I agree completely with your last post, I will add that while the average investor may not see a large change in their holdings, the majority holders will. And that is why it was done. For them it is a matter of dollars and cents. Sure they may lose a little on the back end in some form of taxation, but what they stand to gain exceeds the downside so significantly as to not really be a concern.

                    Wage earners don't have the advantages of those whose living is derived from capital gains. And it is no accident that wage earners pay a higher rate and have less access to loopholes than the financial elite. I'm guessing mighty few of us here have enough money to entice a Swiss banker.

                    Corporations are beginning to realize that they do not need America any longer. And they certainly don't need our work force. One World Order is not far from the reality.
                    I don't know if I'm correct, but I think the U.S. consumes a good deal of the world's products ? I also believe a majority of those consumer purchases are against credit cards of some kind? Two points, first being those corporations you think do not need America or our work force( consumers)are probably hurting as we reduce our consumption. Can the economies (consumers) of the rest of the world sustain and make profitable automakers, electronics manufacturers if we go belly up? The other point is what happens when all that credit comes due, personal, corporate and governmental? Individuals can declare bankruptcy(sometimes), corporations can fail (unless bailed out), and our government (maybe communist china will take some land in trade?). We are in a bad situation, but so too is a lot of the world, corporations included.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      I don't know if I'm correct, but I think the U.S. consumes a good deal of the world's products ? I also believe a majority of those consumer purchases are against credit cards of some kind? Two points, first being those corporations you think do not need America or our work force( consumers)are probably hurting as we reduce our consumption. Can the economies (consumers) of the rest of the world sustain and make profitable automakers, electronics manufacturers if we go belly up? The other point is what happens when all that credit comes due, personal, corporate and governmental? Individuals can declare bankruptcy(sometimes), corporations can fail (unless bailed out), and our government (maybe communist china will take some land in trade?). We are in a bad situation, but so too is a lot of the world, corporations included.
                      Now come on Frank tell me how it really is without the silver lining in the US I read the paper here that happy days are here again in Aus and 85,000 more have been layed off in the US but that is down on the 10% who have already lost there jobs but thats good as the US market continues to rise and if your market rises we follow so what the hell is going on its like a juggling act and your bankers have become vary good at it.

                      Tony

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                      • #26
                        Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                        Originally posted by AFM View Post
                        Now come on Frank tell me how it really is without the silver lining in the US I read the paper here that happy days are here again in Aus and 85,000 more have been layed off in the US but that is down on the 10% who have already lost there jobs but thats good as the US market continues to rise and if your market rises we follow so what the hell is going on its like a juggling act and your bankers have become vary good at it.

                        Tony
                        Tony, can you explain your post? I am confused.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          This link talks about Hershey's plans to cut jobs in the USA and move production to Mexico and abroad. Their prices won't drop and their profits will increase as they eliminate greedy, "Union" workers who pay taxes and support their economy. Progress and capitalism? I don't think so.
                          http://www.manufacturing.net/article...d=139991&terms
                          with out knowing the costs of the business and the marketing studies, this may be a survival move, not just greed, I am not saying it is good, or bad,

                          but when costs of a product are figured, and when one is pushing what the market will bare, in there sale price, (in other words, you will lose more than you gain if you raise your price), and cuts have to be made, (also what is causing the cost of production, it could be taxes, it could meeting government regulations, it could be labor cost, ever time the EPA ups it controls, and OSHA ups it requirements, and the state and local governments, do there taxes and fees, and when the cost of doing business is creating a dilemma of cutting costs or shutting down, one other factor, if the plant is old and is in need of updating and the cost of rebuilding is more than building new.

                          so moving may be the answer,

                          it may be the labor costs or it may be the regulations and taxes and fees, and when the move is made it may actually be keeping many employed that would have to be layed off if the company would shut down. (it very well may be the cost of union labor, but my guess is it is more than just the labor), but in the end it will make the business a more competing business.

                          (If you lived in county that would tax you, regulate you, and control you, and you could move a few miles down the road across county lines, continue to do the same business with out the costs and the hassle, would you move your business?)

                          the more laws rules taxes and fees and controls the government put on business, each and ever one of them take the free out of free enterprise,

                          the greed may not be in the business, but in the Government and regulatory agencies, and the unions, (If unions price them selfs out of the labor market, who is to blame?) why should a business hire some one at double or triple the open market price for labor?

                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          it appears that many people seem to think, that just because a business is large and national, it is profitable and making money hand over fist,

                          what I have seen is that a small business makes small profits or losses, but large business make large profits and large losses, the size of the company is not really any indication of there ability or make money, (yes at one time they may have been making money by the bucket full, but many times that is not the currently reality, just look at GM or Chrysler, and in the past Packard, Studebaker, White, and many others, we have just gone through major banking failures or government bail outs. so just because it is a nation brand does not mean it is necessary making money by the truck load.
                          Last edited by BHD; 01-09-2010, 08:00 AM.
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                          attributed to Samuel Johnson
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                            Originally posted by BHD View Post
                            with out knowing the costs of the business and the marketing studies, this may be a survival move, not just greed, I am not saying it is good, or bad,

                            but when costs of a product are figured, and when one is pushing what the market will bare, in there sale price, (in other words, you will lose more than you gain if you raise your price), and cuts have to be made, (also what is causing the cost of production, it could be taxes, it could meeting government regulations, it could be labor cost, ever time the EPA ups it controls, and OSHA ups it requirements, and the state and local governments, do there taxes and fees, and when the cost of doing business is creating a dilemma of cutting costs or shutting down, one other factor, if the plant is old and is in need of updating and the cost of rebuilding is more than building new.

                            so moving may be the answer,

                            it may be the labor costs or it may be the regulations and taxes and fees, and when the move is made it may actually be keeping many employed that would have to be layed off if the company would shut down. (it very well may be the cost of union labor, but my guess is it is more than just the labor), but in the end it will make the business a more competing business.

                            (If you lived in county that would tax you, regulate you, and control you, and you could move a few miles down the road across county lines, continue to do the same business with out the costs and the hassle, would you move your business?)

                            the more laws rules taxes and fees and controls the government put on business, each and ever one of them take the free out of free enterprise,

                            the greed may not be in the business, but in the Government and regulatory agencies, and the unions, (If unions price them selfs out of the labor market, who is to blame?) why should a business hire some one at double or triple the open market price for labor?

                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                            it appears that many people seem to think, that just because a business is large and national, it is profitable and making money hand over fist,

                            what I have seen is that a small business makes small profits or losses, but large business make large profits and large losses, the size of the company is not really any indication of there ability or make money, (yes at one time they may have been making money by the bucket full, but many times that is not the currently reality, just look at GM or Chrysler, and in the past Packard, Studebaker, White, and many others, we have just gone through major banking failures or government bail outs. so just because it is a nation brand does not mean it is necessary making money by the truck load.
                            I agree with much of your post. Businesses must do what they can under the law to survive and be profitable. Unions represent their membership, so their mission is to bargain for higher wages and greater benefits. Somewhere between Union or government takeover of businesses and division of their assests, and the lowering of our standard of living to that of the third world resident, there must be a balance to be reached. As you pointed out labor costs are only one part of this cause for businesses to seek out greener pastures. Air, water and ground pollution which lead to many deaths in humans and animals prompted legislation to restrict businesses from using certain processes and forced them to adopt costly methods to correct damaging pollution. The result was the loss of many businesses due to bankruptcy or their moving to countries where such restrictions do not exist. The impact of all this in my opinion is a loss of wealth for American workers Union and non Union, and a loss of taxable revenue for our government. On a worldwide scale, there is a slight benefit to slave wage earning workers and greater pollution of air, water and soil. I believe the solution for our economy, if there is one, involves a broad cooperation and effort to meet the needs of businesses and have them return so that American share in their growth. We are living proof that our past behavior, does not benefit our workers, government, or businesses. My point which I tried to make in a previous post is that while businesses are free to seek out cheaper labor and an environment absent of environmental oversight, they will suffer by weakening their consumer base right here. I know foreign markets are growing, but America is still a major player. We need eachother, government, labor and business, but we need to make it work somehow. Do we pass laws to restrict imported goods like othe countries, cap wages, ease EPA rules, all of the above?

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                            • #29
                              Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              Do we pass laws to restrict imported goods like othe countries, cap wages, ease EPA rules, all of the above?
                              I said this before many many of the trade treaties which were passed as "FREE TRADE" are defiantly not "FAIR TRADE".

                              I would venture to guess most of the trade laws made have been a determent to the American work force, and the products we produce,


                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                              in addition this last thought is one needs to study out the ""peace through Commerce" or "Peace through trade" movements,

                              what I have come up with is that there is the thought that if one makes it self "Dependant on others" and then "spreads it wealth around", there will be less war as it will hurt or even disable one one of the waring nations if a conflict breaks out between the two,
                              thus NO more wars. and it appears that many in Washington buy in to the philosophy

                              the below quote is jsut a few words out of a much larger page,
                              http://www.policyinnovations.org/ide...ry/data/000043
                              Pessimists might agree that civil wars and terrorism can be reduced by increasing economic freedom and prosperity, but superpower struggles remain. The economic importance of the United States lessens relatively as China, India, and Russia become wealthy. If China and Russia become democracies, and wealthy democracies are deeply interdependent as a result of international trade and investment, they will be unlikely to war with one another. The combined costs of lives and business opportunities lost would be too large to sustain much interest in belligerence.

                              But wealthy democracies may still bully small nations. There is no guarantee that the powerful will respect the weak, even when the powerful are democratic. It is therefore important to support a universal ethos of nonaggression. Laws are founded in common moral principles that are respected and eventually ingrained in culture.

                              Despite the diversity of the world's cultures, one can imagine a world in which states insist on respect for the principle of nonaggression. Beyond a world of trusted business and ubiquitous economic freedom, peace through commerce must be based on this principle.
                              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                              attributed to Samuel Johnson
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Forget Healthcare Reform!!! ~ Apple Juice Has Been Outsourced! ?????

                                So......does anyone else have this kind of Apple Juice in their area?

                                I think you fella's lost focus here

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