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  • #31
    Re: Generous Countries

    He also has a large following and his own university pumping out acolytes right and left. His influence is significant and I don't hear his followers disavowing themselves of his comments. Monica Goodling ring a bell? She wasn't the only kid drafted right out of his university that applied a religious test to federal employee applicants.

    We are far from seeing the entirety of our efforts at work in Haiti, and long after we are finished they will still be putting the pieces of their lives back together. To expect any recognition for our early efforts at this juncture is simply unseemly. Once order is restored, rebuilding begins and their society returns to a sense of normalcy, if they want to offer thanks, fine. But I think survival is the primary directive at this point.

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    • #32
      Re: Generous Countries

      Originally posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING View Post
      Please,



      DO NOT SEND MONEY TO HAITI OR ANY AFFILIATION TO THIS CRISIS.


      Send products, clothes, soap, household items, anything that can be shipped and sent over there to help them.


      News just came out a few months ago where a half a billion dollars vanished into thin air that was directed towards the people of the tsunami victims. Katrina, same thing.



      Anything in monetary donation is a handout to the greed that tends to every catastrophic event.

      No one polices this, no one is held accountable, and always, years later...we hear how millions of dollars were funnelled inappropriately into the hands of those who don't deserve it, and the people who truly needed it, don't get the money.

      "Giving more" doesn't mean that more get the help...quite the contrary.

      Being lazy and tossing money is throwing it to anything but the people who need it.

      Perfect example:


      Not even 24 hours into this event, they made it known how you can give money instantly by calling a number and entering a code, then it gets charged to your phone bill.


      Do you know who this is? Do you know who is policing it? Do you know what percentage goes to the people who need it?


      You DON'T.


      Give of your time, your household products, anything that cannot be pilfered and exploited by those it does not belong to.
      you could give $ to the red cross and they will bring things with them when they go to places like this . we have some big ministry based relief places that ask for $ and they also bring the things that people need right away
      Charlie

      My seek the peek fundraiser page
      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

      new work pictures 12/09
      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

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      • #33
        Re: Generous Countries

        I think we should acknowledge the many faith based groups working in haiti when this disaster struck. It appears there were volunteers from around the country giving of themselves to feed, cloth and educate folks in haiti, I know their faith will see them through. A big thank you to them and their friends and family back home.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Generous Countries

          Dunbar,

          Yes of course we have starving people and tragedy at home. I don't see that as a good reason not to help in the event of a tragedy in another part of the world.

          We have many problems afflicting people in the US at all econnomic strata. The internal politics and disagreements that preclude a response to those issues, while we waste tremendous resources on ineffective government programs and wars, is indeed a shame and in many cases a tragedy of its own. Again, I don't see that that has much to do with an earthquake. People are in urgent need of medical and other aid. Cholera, dysentery and other diseases will take hold and be worse than the quake - unless people with the means (that would be us, among others) assist.

          I don't htink this is about hopping on the bandwagon. The US generally responds to natural disasters in any part of the world. We are leading the charge, as we IMO should.

          As for showboating, I don't know if Obama or anyone in the Government is showboating or not. You might be right. But again, I don't think it's relevant. All that matters is that steps be taken to alleviate the suffering to the extent we can.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Generous Countries

            Originally posted by darius View Post
            Frank, it is sad when a tragedy spurs that sort of debate and even more so when information presented as facts is not true at all.

            The USA is by far the largest provider of help to other nations (the largest chunk of the aid to Israel and Egypt) and the US is by far the largest economy. Contrary to boytyperanma's post, when we consider the GDP then the picture looks bleaker. The US is 21s behind countries such as Belgium, Ireland, Canada, France, Finland, and Britain, Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark. The last 4 are actually the top contributors spending about 1% of their GDP on foreign aid. The US spends around 0.15%.
            I stand corrected. I could have sworn the last story I read on charitable nations included GDP as a metric with the US in the lead. Looking at the data today what darius says is accurate.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Generous Countries

              If our country is to "do the right thing" how much money/aid do we send and when do we stop sending it?
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              Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

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              • #37
                Re: Generous Countries

                Originally posted by Gene Bickford View Post
                If our country is to "do the right thing" how much money/aid do we send and when do we stop sending it?
                Good question Gene. If our country's finances were judged as if it were an individual, would a honest advisor suggest any donations at this time? The USA is in debt, unemployed(lost it's job) spending money it does not have! You and I both know the rescue effort and generosity will not stop, we will give regardless of our situation. I wonder who will be there for us if the need arises? I know the USA has friends, but I'm afraid they may be fair weather friends.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Generous Countries

                  There may be as many as 70,000 dead bodies who's families don't give a crap about politics at the moment.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Generous Countries

                    Originally posted by Gene Bickford View Post
                    If our country is to "do the right thing" how much money/aid do we send and when do we stop sending it?
                    It's a very difficult question. Do you give till it hurts? It already was hurting, before the disaster. The government is in fact, broke - epxenses outstrtip income and no projection for how to fix it. I imagine the Government will respond based on what they can supply, considering that the military is currently committed elsewhere. And private donations will roll in, each person setting their own level.

                    I would say that if one compares this expense to giving money to fat-cat bankers and insurance company executives, or a stilulus package full of pork that partly supported bloated state civil service rosters....I know which I would prefer.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Generous Countries

                      We are beginning to hear more and more extraordinary stories of folks who were trapped under rubble being rescued by the joint efforts of doctors and workers from different countries joining forces. I know we will hear many horror stories as the days pass both of death and cruel behavior by some thugs, but we will also find heroes and miracles amid the chaos.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Generous Countries

                        Originally posted by Gene Bickford View Post
                        If our country is to "do the right thing" how much money/aid do we send and when do we stop sending it?
                        Seems the international agreement through the UN was a goal of .7% GDP in total charitable donations. Some countries made the goal others didn't.

                        A country has no need or rules forcing it to help other countries. People help others because they are 'good' people. If you are unwilling to help others due to your own interest that says little 'good' about you.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Generous Countries

                          Originally posted by Gene Bickford View Post
                          If our country is to "do the right thing" how much money/aid do we send and when do we stop sending it?
                          I only ask because I wonder how much money equals "doing the right thing".
                          So if we throw .7% of our GDP to Haiti we are "good"?
                          What if we send .8% does that make us "better"?

                          And how long do we send?
                          Until the situation has stabilized and they have a supply of fresh water and some food?or do we go beyond that?
                          INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                          Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

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                          • #43
                            Re: Generous Countries

                            Originally posted by Gene Bickford View Post
                            I only ask because I wonder how much money equals "doing the right thing".
                            So if we throw .7% of our GDP to Haiti we are "good"?
                            What if we send .8% does that make us "better"?

                            And how long do we send?
                            Until the situation has stabilized and they have a supply of fresh water and some food?or do we go beyond that?
                            That's a very subjective measure. To some doing the right thing is not sending a cent. To others it requires an amount of money to bring their standard of living up to ours.

                            If you send anything that's enough to qualify as 'good' in my book. But if you want to qualify on the list of 'good' countries .7% is the apparent goal. .8% might make you better in the eyes of some.

                            If you sit back and let people suffer and then go as far as to advocate against helping you are a bad person in my opinion. I'm sure Rush doesn't care if I think he's a bad person but I'm always confused how he can live with himself.

                            Long term once the people are out of the rubble and they have water and food our part is done. Considering the country those are time consuming enough goals.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Generous Countries

                              I don't think there is the right amount or percentage of GDP to donate. The problem is that humans are very competitive and would like to measure everything, to create tables and spreadsheets showing what is better or what is not. It went even so far that that academics tried to measure which representative of some field in humanities is better than the other. They counted how many times someone was quoted by others. The more times you were quoted or referred to (in a positive way) the better you were supposed to be. That of course is ridiculous. After all, is "Marry had a Little Lamb" better than "Roses are red and violets are blue"? The idea is as ridiculous, as are the attempts to measure human or national "goodness".

                              The world is helping Haitians and that is good. It would be even better if the world would not have to help those they first destroy, as it incidentally happened to Haiti (France, in this case, was the culprit)
                              In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Generous Countries

                                Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
                                To others it requires an amount of money to bring their standard of living up to ours.

                                .
                                That is what I was looking for!

                                Haiti was in dire need of help long before this earth quake. How many died each and every day due to starvation and violence? Why was the UN already stationed at points?
                                Why the sudden interest in Haiti? Because of a disaster? Because people are in need?They were already in need on Monday but nobody gave a rats a$$ then.
                                How are we going to help the actual people by sending 100mil, 200mil or even a billion? Corruption and greed run rampant among all parties involved(US Gov, The UN, Haitian Gov, thugs, red cross, unicef...etc). The every day joe in Haiti will be lucky if they see 10 cents for every dollar sent.

                                What of the million upon millions all over the world that need help? do we just let them suffer until they to experience a huge event?
                                INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                                Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

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