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  • We Agree, Now What?

    There have been many Threads, and posts regarding the economy of the USA. Discussions having to do with "Buy American", and the impact of foreign goods on our economy have been debated to death.
    I think we can all agree, that the transition to cheaper foreign labor over the last fifty years is a fact. I think we can also agree that this transition has lead to an outflow of wealth and deepening economic depression for some countries, the USA included.
    While some dismiss the idea of a return to manufacturing as protectionism, or simply impractical, I wonder if we can agree on how this will all affect our future? I can't imagine how our economy can either stabilize or improve unless the current trends change. Can we agree that there will be no magic improvement, if our consumer needs continue to be provided outside of our country(ies)?
    I would also like to include the subculture of the illegal aliens in our country and the multitude of problems associated with their plight. Whether we choose to ignore them, prosecute those who employ them, or step up and either grant them citizenship or deportation, business as usual does not serve us or them well.
    The USA is a very complicated and confused place these days. There is little to no agreement on national priorities, or how to address and resolve problems. We have data to help understand our past, experts to explain our current situations, why is the predictable future being ignored instead of altered in a calculated manner?

  • #2
    Re: We Agree, Now What?

    Frank,

    Great Post and I agree,

    Here are some things that will help the USA get back to good growth

    1) Each Family should start some kind of small home based business, even if its super small it can grow, There is no reason we need to import every thing.

    2) More "hands on" training for the trades and real skills.

    For example, How many people do you know that can make homemade butter, jelly etc?

    How many can still change an alternator , starter , like most of the men here over 50 can do?

    Not these younger guys, They are all mechanically dumb!

    Why as humans are we letting machines and corporations make this for us

    3) Live, Buy, Shop , Employ LOCAL

    If there isn't "something" near you, start a business to supply it locally, watch how fast you grow,

    4) PUT down the "fools gold"

    This includes $4 dollar coffees, cheap tools etc.

    5) Out law the microprocessor , I know you think I am nuts but think back to 1980 before that silly "little chip" ran everything

    People used to be able to read analog clocks, They would go outside and play with there kids, etc. Now we have massive obesity and autism everywhere, Come on ......Not the microchip right?

    Sure sure, Lets all try buying our kids lumber, a hammer and some tool each year,

    Lets ALL throw away the X-boxes, etc etc , No lessons there, They only empower, laziness and cooperate greed.

    Oh ALSO , Go quiz some college kids on "Spelling". You would be surprised how many rely on spell check and cannot spell! They even have a degree.

    I know #5 will get a huge argument, and never will happened until the machines completely take over, but before you trash me, and if your older then 50 you MIGHT see what I mean, Anyone remember a good old day of hard work?

    Most of Generation Y can't even tell you what a chisel or a pair of channel locks is, but instead they have a "dream" of working from home for only 2 hours a day.

    6) Grow Your Own Food,

    It only takes a few seeds and you can have your own food supply, This is still legal btw ;-)

    Well, I can go on forever, But that's my thoughts
    Last edited by PlumbingSkool; 02-12-2010, 10:19 AM.
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    • #3
      Re: We Agree, Now What?

      Remember:

      WE THE PEOPLE......

      That's why WE need to act on some of the stuff I mentioned above,
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      • #4
        Re: We Agree, Now What?

        Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
        Frank,

        Great Post and I agree,

        Here are some things that will help the USA get back to good growth

        1) Each Family should start some kind of small home based business, even if its super small it can grow, There is no reason we need to import every thing.

        2) More "hands on" training for the trades and real skills.

        For example, How many people do you know that can make homemade butter, jelly etc?

        How many can still change an alternator , starter , like most of the men here over 50 can do?

        Not these younger guys, They are all mechanically dumb!

        Why as humans are we letting machines and corporations make this for us

        3) Live, Buy, Shop , Employ LOCAL

        If there isn't "something" near you, start a business to supply it locally, watch how fast you grow,

        4) PUT down the "fools gold"

        This includes $4 dollar coffees, cheap tools etc.

        5) Out law the microprocessor , I know you think I am nuts but think back to 1980 before that silly "little chip" ran everything

        People used to be able to read analog clocks, They would go outside and play with there kids, etc. Now we have massive obesity and autism everywhere, Come on ......Not the microchip right?

        Sure sure, Lets all try buying our kids lumber, a hammer and some tool each year,

        Lets ALL throw away the X-boxes, etc etc , No lessons there, They only empower, laziness and cooperate greed.

        Oh ALSO , Go quiz some college kids on "Spelling". You would be surprised how many rely on spell check and cannot spell! They even have a degree.

        I know #5 will get a huge argument, and never will happened until the machines completely take over, but before you trash me, and if your older then 50 you MIGHT see what I mean, Anyone remember a good old day of hard work?

        Most of Generation Y can't even tell you what a chisel or a pair of channel locks is, but instead they have a "dream" of working from home for only 2 hours a day.

        6) Grow Your Own Food,

        It only takes a few seeds and you can have your own food supply, This is still legal btw ;-)

        Well, I can go on forever, But that's my thoughts
        You make some good points, but it will be an uphill battle getting the masses to consider such changes. I didn't realize how helpless many guys are when it comes to car or mechanical repairs until recently. I rented an apartment to a college professor in his mid 40's, and this guy hardly knew how to check his fluid levels! Life skills are not being passed onto younger generations and as a result they grow up very dependent on others. Folks are too quick to do for their kids rather than teach them to do for themselves!
        I pushed my daughters to do their own laundry, clean up around the house and cook a bit. You would be surprised how many parents think that's abusive. If my daughters saw me chopping wood or using a power tool I gladly offered to have them give it a try, with my help and instruction of course.

        My in-laws used to jar their own home grown tomatoes and even made sausages and wine, skill lost nowadays. I can do simple car and home repairs and although I learned how to cook as well, some things are not cost efficient. I know how to make peach jam for example but at a dollar a pound for peaches, it's not exactly a savings anymore.

        As an exTelephone man I used to joke that we should go back to rotary phones only, because in truth technological advances exceed our ability to employ folks sometimes displaced by them.

        There should be more effort made to cross train young folks to not only meet the challenges of an advancing technological world, but to function in the present physical and mechanical world as well.

        I still think as a society, there should be a focus towards the future given our current situations. I'm not for big government, but a smart government would anticipate growing problems and make some course corrections. Where are we headed and who cares?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: We Agree, Now What?

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          ... this transition has lead to an outflow of wealth and deepening economic depression for some countries, the USA included.
          Depends on the definition of wealth. The disparity between the financial elite and the rest of us is not an accident or the result of unintended consequences. In other words, the current arrangement is working just fine. If you were a multi-millionaire or billionaire, I doubt you would be complaining too much, except for wanting more tax cuts.


          I would also like to include the subculture of the illegal aliens in our country and the multitude of problems associated with their plight.
          I think we should be prosecuting the employers that create the job market for illegals. You hire an illegal, you pay a $100k and three months in jail for each worker. Problem solved.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: We Agree, Now What?

            Frank,

            As an ex-telephone guy you might get a chuckle out of this:

            Years ago people used to complain about 3 minutes for 25 cents on a pay phone,

            BUT NOW - 140 chars of text is 50 cents a piece

            Go Figure.................

            This is just one example of how "dumb" people have become, BTW I don't have a cell phone and I am only 36, I see no point any longer.
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            Comment


            • #7
              Re: We Agree, Now What?

              I too, do not have a cell phone. Nor do I see a need. I've made it 46 years thus far without one. Call me simple. That's the idea.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: We Agree, Now What?

                Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                Depends on the definition of wealth. The disparity between the financial elite and the rest of us is not an accident or the result of unintended consequences. In other words, the current arrangement is working just fine. If you were a multi-millionaire or billionaire, I doubt you would be complaining too much, except for wanting more tax cuts.




                I think we should be prosecuting the employers that create the job market for illegals. You hire an illegal, you pay a $100k and three months in jail for each worker. Problem solved.
                I agree with your first paragraph on wealth. Regarding illegal immigration, unless it was just beginning to happen the problem and solution is much more complicated. Many millions of illegals are already here, and raising children born here which is a major complication. Entire industries would collapse if illegals suddenly disappeared and this fact must be considered. I believe the answer lies in a transitional period that incorporates documention of who is living in our country, where they are employed and whether or not they want citizenship. Then there must be a gradual encorporation towards legal status or deportation along with stricker border enforcement.
                There is no reason this situation of illegal immigration can't be resolved fairly, humanly and with an end result of greater security and financial benefit for those in transition and those who are here legally. The industries that employ illegals will have to pay the new citizens a legal wage and treat them fairly. We will all have to pay more for the services provided by tax paying, higher wage earners, but the advantages will be many in my opinion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: We Agree, Now What?

                  Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                  I too, do not have a cell phone. Nor do I see a need. I've made it 46 years thus far without one. Call me simple. That's the idea.
                  I have a cell phone an it helps stay in touch with my wife and two daughters, good in case of an emergency. I'm also able to pass some time talking to a buddy who spends the Winters in Florida, while I'm stuck freezing in doors. Let's face it, if we suddenly lost the use of cell phones and P.C.'s, life would go on but it would sure slow down. Big population runs on better communication, and cell phones along with computers make that possible much as I wish it were not the case.

                  If I was single and looking to conserve my money, I would get a prepaid cell phone in case of emergency and use a computer at my local library.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: We Agree, Now What?

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    If I was single and looking to conserve my money, I would get a prepaid cell phone in case of emergency and use a computer at my local library.
                    My wife and I shared a Virgin Mobile prepaid phone. You need to put $20 every 90 days, and a minute costs $0.25. We think this is a pretty darn good deal, because when we need a cell phone (e.g., car trips coordinating with other people for an event) we have one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: We Agree, Now What?

                      I think there's really only one thing that we can do as individuals that will actually make a difference, and that is voting with our dollars.
                      We talk about it, but we need to ACTUALLY ONLY BUY AMERICAN.
                      Every time you go to the store you flip the product over and look for the "Made in the USA" label.
                      It is really hard to do, but it's possible.
                      No more tube socks ten for a dollar! You're gonna have to pay more.
                      Get out of bed Saturday morning and drive to the farmer's market.
                      And you rich guys can buy one of these and get off of foreign oil:
                      http://green.autoblog.com/2009/02/09...tric-for-2010/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: We Agree, Now What?

                        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                        Depends on the definition of wealth. The disparity between the financial elite and the rest of us is not an accident or the result of unintended consequences. In other words, the current arrangement is working just fine. If you were a multi-millionaire or billionaire, I doubt you would be complaining too much, except for wanting more tax cuts.




                        I think we should be prosecuting the employers that create the job market for illegals. You hire an illegal, you pay a $100k and three months in jail for each worker. Problem solved.


                        What would we eat? This would bring agriculture to a grinding halt.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: We Agree, Now What?

                          With roughly 12 million illegals in our country, just think of the tax revenue these jobs would create. It may not be a huge number, but lets do some (overly simplified) math anyway.

                          Illegal employees - 12,000,000
                          Hourly wage - $8.50
                          Weekly Wage (40 hrs) - $340
                          Weeks worked - 52
                          Income tax rate - 15%

                          I come up with $31.8 billion in federal taxes alone. This does not consider the SSI contributions made by these workers, or the state taxes paid by these workers.

                          Every little bit helps. Since they are getting tax payer supported services, they too should be contributing.

                          Rather than have to search a product for a Made in USA logo, we should require any product not made in the USA to have a logo indicating its country of origin. And it shouldn't be hidden or designed to blend in with the packaging. It should stand in stark contrast to the packaging so that it is plain for every consumer to see where the product came from.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: We Agree, Now What?

                            Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                            With roughly 12 million illegals in our country, just think of the tax revenue these jobs would create.
                            "The majority of illegal immigrants now work for mainstream companies, and are hired, paid and taxed like any other American worker."

                            http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/bu...ewanted=1&_r=1

                            Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                            we should require any product not made in the USA to have a logo indicating its country of origin.
                            This is already law. Every single imported product has this label.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: We Agree, Now What?

                              Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                              Frank,

                              Great Post and I agree,

                              Here are some things that will help the USA get back to good growth

                              1) Each Family should start some kind of small home based business, even if its super small it can grow, There is no reason we need to import every thing.

                              2) More "hands on" training for the trades and real skills.

                              For example, How many people do you know that can make homemade butter, jelly etc?

                              How many can still change an alternator , starter , like most of the men here over 50 can do?

                              Not these younger guys, They are all mechanically dumb!

                              Why as humans are we letting machines and corporations make this for us

                              3) Live, Buy, Shop , Employ LOCAL

                              If there isn't "something" near you, start a business to supply it locally, watch how fast you grow,

                              4) PUT down the "fools gold"

                              This includes $4 dollar coffees, cheap tools etc.

                              5) Out law the microprocessor , I know you think I am nuts but think back to 1980 before that silly "little chip" ran everything

                              People used to be able to read analog clocks, They would go outside and play with there kids, etc. Now we have massive obesity and autism everywhere, Come on ......Not the microchip right?

                              Sure sure, Lets all try buying our kids lumber, a hammer and some tool each year,

                              Lets ALL throw away the X-boxes, etc etc , No lessons there, They only empower, laziness and cooperate greed.

                              Oh ALSO , Go quiz some college kids on "Spelling". You would be surprised how many rely on spell check and cannot spell! They even have a degree.

                              I know #5 will get a huge argument, and never will happened until the machines completely take over, but before you trash me, and if your older then 50 you MIGHT see what I mean, Anyone remember a good old day of hard work?

                              Most of Generation Y can't even tell you what a chisel or a pair of channel locks is, but instead they have a "dream" of working from home for only 2 hours a day.

                              6) Grow Your Own Food,

                              It only takes a few seeds and you can have your own food supply, This is still legal btw ;-)

                              Well, I can go on forever, But that's my thoughts
                              If I didn't have a paralyzing mortgage, I would be able (and prefer) to buy higher quality american made goods.

                              I can't even afford to live in the city where I work, I have to commute 1 hour each day.

                              Oh, and about #5. If the USA did that, I'm afraid we will turn into a third world country. (that's one way to keep the illegal aliens out, i guess)

                              Comment

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