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  • #16
    Re: Extreme Measures

    Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
    * I absolutely don't agree with outlawing micropocessors. With all due respect, that would be nuts and would kill us in a technology oriented world. But I DO fully believe that there should be NO COMPUTERS IN SCHOOLS. Johnny needs to read, write, be able to do math, and learn history. Whether he can navigate websites or click on icons is of no value.
    When I was in 3rd grade (1990), we had Apple IIe's and they taught us how to touch type. I think that is a valuable skill that we should teach kids. Computers aren't a substitute for reading or writing (in fact reading and writing a prerequisite to using a computer), but they aren't "evil"; and having a computer doesn't in some way mean that you aren't learning to read.

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    • #17
      Re: Extreme Measures

      One Guy solved all His problems today ,with a can of gas and His airplane
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Extreme Measures

        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
        One Guy solved all His problems today ,with a can of gas and His airplane
        He ended his problems and his life, not a smart way to do things and certainly not with any regard for his family or the folks on the street or in that building. Yeah, he made his point, but there had to be a better way!
        He was right about doing the same thing and expecting a different result being insane, but was ending his life a brilliant move? Now his wife and daughter have to pick up the pieces, I feel sorry for them.

        There is a guy in my town who lost his house in a tax auction just to prove a point, that the town tax dept was being unfair. He had the money to pay, but chose to stand on principles. Now he doesn't have his house, was that a smart move?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Extreme Measures

          Originally posted by cpw View Post
          When I was in 3rd grade (1990), we had Apple IIe's and they taught us how to touch type. I think that is a valuable skill that we should teach kids. Computers aren't a substitute for reading or writing (in fact reading and writing a prerequisite to using a computer), but they aren't "evil"; and having a computer doesn't in some way mean that you aren't learning to read.
          Now I feel old. I was in the third grade in 1965. We didn't learn to touch type until high school. I can't honestly say that I have ever felt the delay has held me back. But I see your point. Today typewriters are dinosaurs so if you want to learn to type, it will be on a computer keyboard.

          The problem isn't the computer. I didn't mean to imply that I felt that they are evil. In college in the late 70s I spent many a night punching lines of Fortran onto cards and afterwards soldered my first computer from a kit using the (really cool at the time) 8 bit Z80 mp. The cockpit displays for the F15E and F18 aircraft were thermally analyzed using finite difference software that I wrote because commercial programs that ran on the PC - dual 5-1/4 drives and 640k ram - weren't available at the time. My point is that I am somewhat of a computer-oriented person - at least not anti-computer in general.

          The problem with the computer in schools is that when it's there, it gets misused and has artificial importance attached to it. Schools focus on "computer labs" and budget dollars go to it. Maybe I'm missing something but the results of our primary and high school system seem to be as disappointing as the results of our University system is outstanding! Reading and writing might be a prerequisite to using the computer but from the test scores you wouldn't guess it. I just think the focus needs to be on the basics.

          You could probably get me to compromise my position without too much arm twisting, but I do think the spirit of the thought is valid.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Extreme Measures

            Don`t worry Frank the money jugglars are at work and she`l be right they are pushing all that bad debt under the carpet and what you don`t see wont hurt you just look at Greece they have nearly fixed their bad debt and they will do the same for whatever country in the future falls behind.
            Are you fit Frank could you handle a rickshaw as I feel that is our future.?

            Tony

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Extreme Measures

              Originally posted by tinmack View Post
              So..............how would that help, Gene?

              Not trying to be snarky here, but have you read/are you familiar with the agreement and the implications of changing/eliminating it?


              Here's a hint - there's REALLY cheap oil in there.....

              So what happens if the US has to pay more for oil - isn't that just worsening the spending problem?
              Maybe the pain will motivate us to get serious about ending our addiction to foreign oil, while we still have the ability to do so.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Extreme Measures

                Originally posted by BHD View Post
                no bill could have non related amendments in it. (no earmarks) and all funding would have to stand on it own merit, not piggybacked on some thing else


                i have been saying this for years. that would slash pork to the bone and go a long way in saving stupidly spent money.

                steve
                In the never ending struggle to keep the water flowing.... The Poo Poo Cowboy rides again!!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Extreme Measures

                  Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                  He ended his problems and his life, not a smart way to do things and certainly not with any regard for his family or the folks on the street or in that building. Yeah, he made his point, but there had to be a better way!
                  He was right about doing the same thing and expecting a different result being insane, but was ending his life a brilliant move? Now his wife and daughter have to pick up the pieces, I feel sorry for them.

                  There is a guy in my town who lost his house in a tax auction just to prove a point, that the town tax dept was being unfair. He had the money to pay, but chose to stand on principles. Now he doesn't have his house, was that a smart move?
                  Yes Frank,You're right ,for a sane man. He was in a different space,without hope. We can't imagine His torment. Arson,No insurance pay out to the I.R.S . was at the tipping factor!
                  King George brought Men to that in My old Back yard BOSTON. His story will come out.
                  Don't think the IRS can hide this one!
                  I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Extreme Measures

                    Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                    Yes Frank,You're right ,for a sane man. He was in a different space,without hope. We can't imagine His torment. Arson,No insurance pay out to the I.R.S . was at the tipping factor!
                    King George brought Men to that in My old Back yard BOSTON. His story will come out.
                    Don't think the IRS can hide this one!
                    I completely agree. Sane folks can be pushed to the point of acting out of desperation. I have some experience with how far the IRS can go and it does lead folks to a breaking point. Without going into specific details, I worked with a guy who owed quite a bit in back taxes and the IRS "levied" his paycheck and attached his bank account. His take home pay went from $500 a week to $40! He had a sit down with one of the agents and was very convincing about his intentions and how he could not survive on $40 a week. Luckily, they agreed to a long term payment schedule. You are right, we don't know the specifics. Unfortunately, these tragic stories are going to play out more often with folks unable to pay ever increasing tax burdens.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Extreme Measures

                      Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                      Maybe the pain will motivate us to get serious about ending our addiction to foreign oil, while we still have the ability to do so.
                      Agreed - Burning wood is the future,

                      Google "super trees"

                      One arce of super trees is equal to like a billion tons of bio-mass fuel.

                      Nothing like good ole wood

                      And it can be home grown as well

                      Get the wood stoves ready

                      Here some SUPER TREES

                      1. SuperTrees®- The healthiest trees in the nursery industry

                        SuperTrees are exceptionally healthy young trees that are grown using air-pruning pots so they have strong radial root systems which help them avoid common ...
                        www.supertrees.com/ - Cached - Similar -
                      2. Super Trees Clean up Superfund Sites | Pollution | DISCOVER Magazine

                        One remarkable forest is busy purifying the planet. Visit Discover Magazine to read this article and other exclusive science and technology news stories.
                        discovermagazine.com/.../26-worker-trees-clean-contaminated-water - Cached - Similar -
                      3. Hybrid Poplar Trees

                        Hybrid poplar trees and cuttings. One of the fastest growing trees. ... with these so called "super trees", and information I have gathered on the Internet. ...
                        www.hybridpoplars.com/ - Cached - Similar -
                      4. Peru Uses New “Super Tree” Technology to Fight Air Pollution ...

                        Apr 29, 2009 ... A device invented by Peruvians known as the “Super Tree” has recently made its debut in Lima, a city plagued with extreme air pollution. ...
                        ecolocalizer.com/.../peru-uses-new-super-tree-technology-to-fight-air-pollution/ -

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Extreme Measures

                        Originally posted by stxrus View Post

                        i have been saying this for years. that would slash pork to the bone and go a long way in saving stupidly spent money.

                        steve
                        Pork is a fraction of a percent of the budget. And so long as a senator or representative is bring home the bacon, no ones going to complain about their congress person.

                        But I do agree that amendments to bills should be germane to the bill. Politicians on both sides of the isle use these votes on bills to bludgeon their opponent, and we the people just eat it up.

                        Case in point: "I was for it before I was against it" How the electorate ate that crap up.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Extreme Measures

                          My friend Brad says it's all good;

                          As the Eastern Seaboard's blown away.

                          Now everything is goin' half price.

                          Look at all the money we'll save.

                          ______________________________

                          from the song "Members Only" - by Sheryl Crowe, The Globe Sessions

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Extreme Measures

                            Frank, drastic measures require drastic steps. These lead to events we read about in history text books. The American Revolution, The French Revolution, Poland's Solidarity movement. Heads rolled but the battles were won.

                            When a person's limb is infected and when it contracts gangrene, eventually the doctors decide to apply a drastic measure - to sever that limb. If a country is a living organism then the limb that hurts all the others needs to be removed too. That diseased limb is the big industry, the stupefying media, the Federal Reserve and their messenger boys - the so called government.

                            The problem is that I see the US as a greatly fragmented country. Individualism is a wonderful thing but it also separates individuals into minute, powerless groups unable to oppose those who should be their servants in the first place. Corner store owners, or physiotherapists are rralery seen on strike. Too few of them and they are too far apart. Mines, factories etc are a different story. It is easier to organize and large numbers always look more convincing.

                            I don't think anything can be done at this stage. In the struggle for freedoms we have opted for redundant ones, such as the freedom to select from 5 million brands of cereal and 2000 TV channels. Meanwhile the most important freedoms are being eroded.

                            I just finished watching a great movie, The Hurt Locker. The movie has 9 Oscar nominations and I think they are well deserved. Another movie with the same number of nominations is The Avatar. Take the special effects out and The Avatar is a nothing - a ridiculous repeat of the same old tricks. One might think that in the country where We Support Our Troops stickers (made in China, of course) are all over the place, The Hurt Locker would be making gazillion$. After all, don't we all want to know what those we support go through on a daily basis?

                            It turns out we don't. We buy a piece of mind for $1.99, slap it on the bumper and drive off to a movie theater to watch an idiotic fable, that has now fetched over $2B. The Hurt Locker made barely over $16M, just about $1M more than it cost to make.

                            It may seem like defining a society on the basis of movies' commercial performance is not such a solid indicator of what the society has become. And yet, to me it is quite telling - there is little hope much we'll change and about the only drastic measures to be seen are lower wages, erosion of freedoms and eventually the collapse of the democratic system.
                            Last edited by darius; 02-19-2010, 11:16 PM.
                            In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Extreme Measures

                              Originally posted by darius View Post
                              Frank, drastic measures require drastic steps. These lead to events we read about in history text books. The American Revolution, The French Revolution, Poland's Solidarity movement. Heads rolled but the battles were won.

                              When a person's limb is infected and when it contracts gangrene, eventually the doctors decide to apply a drastic measure - to sever that limb. If a country is a living organism then the limb that hurts all the others needs to be removed too. That diseased limb is the big industry, the stupefying media, the Federal Reserve and their messenger boys - the so called government.

                              The problem is that I see the US as a greatly fragmented country. Individualism is a wonderful thing but it also separates individuals into minute, powerless groups unable to oppose those who should be their servants in the first place. Corner store owners, or physiotherapists are rralery seen on strike. Too few of them and they are too far apart. Mines, factories etc are a different story. It is easier to organize and large numbers always look more convincing.

                              I don't think anything can be done at this stage. In the struggle for freedoms we have opted for redundant ones, such as the freedom to select from 5 million brands of cereal and 2000 TV channels. Meanwhile the most important freedoms are being eroded.

                              I just finished watching a great movie, The Hurt Locker. The movie has 9 Oscar nominations and I think they are well deserved. Another movie with the same number of nominations is The Avatar. Take the special effects out and The Avatar is a nothing - a ridiculous repeat of the same old tricks. One might think that in the country where We Support Our Troops stickers (made in China, of course) are all over the place, The Hurt Locker would be making gazillion$. After all, don't we all want to know what those we support go through on a daily basis?

                              It turns out we don't. We buy a piece of mind for $1.99, slap it on the bumper and drive off to a movie theater to watch an idiotic fable, that has now fetched over $2B. The Hurt Locker made barely over $16M, just about $1M more than it cost to make.

                              It may seem like defining a society on the basis of movies' commercial performance is not such a solid indicator of what the society has become. And yet, to me it is quite telling - there is little hope much we'll change and about the only drastic measures to be seen are lower wages, erosion of freedoms and eventually the collapse of the democratic system.
                              Much as I would like to disagree with your post, I cannot. The numbing and dumbing of our society is proven by our current situations. We were easily distracted while our jobs disappeared, hypnotized into idiocy by a constant stream of electronic baubles. Some of us are lucid, well aware of the impending doom ,powerless to stop it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Extreme Measures

                                Originally posted by darius View Post
                                The problem is that I see the US as a greatly fragmented country.
                                Hence the value of wedge politics. Actually, it's true name is Machiavellianism. But the result is the same.

                                Take the teabaggers. The persons that funded the movement are the very ones that benefit from these Machiavellian tactics. They aren't interested in changing anything because the current system best serves their purposes. They just want to fragment the electorate ever more.

                                And while arguments can rage on about media's bias one way or the other, one in particular is simply just a partisan outlet. Yet their viewers consider their product legitimate journalism. It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

                                United we stand, divided we fall. And the powers have no interest in a united people.

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