Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
    New jobs in "green" industries and goverment funded make work programs to get unemployed Americans a pay check ultimately paid for by tax payers, still does not undo the loss realized by consumer spending.
    I may be wrong, but I think the idea of 'make work' project is the government can either pay someone to look for work or pay them to work on infrastructure projects. These 'make work' workers return more of these dollars to the economy in terms of discretionary dollars than someone on unemployment. These 'make work' dollars stimulate the economy. Stores order goods from suppliers, suppliers produce goods in response to demand.....

    A fair argument has been made that not enough money was injected into the 'make work' projects. Regardless, our infrastructure is in poor shape. Spending money on roads, bridges, water/sewer systems, levies just doesn't capture the publics attention building a new dam, park or what not. But our infrastructure has suffered budget cuts year after year.

    As for the OT, the country that develops new energy will be the dominate country for the foreseeable future. 60 Minutes did a story last week on Bloom Energy. So far, venture capitalists have invested $400 million on the venture. Ten years in the making and some pretty impressive clients beta testing the technology makes for one of the more impressive potentials to leap forward in not just green energy but to reduce our dependence on oil from outside out borders.

    We need to invest in a green energy program the same way we invested in the Apollo program back in the 1960's. Our future is directly linked to energy.

    Twenty five years from now, residential housing will be off grid. Of course we'll be paying alot more for water. A lot more. The middle east won't be able to give away oil.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

      Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
      I may be wrong, but I think the idea of 'make work' project is the government can either pay someone to look for work or pay them to work on infrastructure projects. These 'make work' workers return more of these dollars to the economy in terms of discretionary dollars than someone on unemployment. These 'make work' dollars stimulate the economy. Stores order goods from suppliers, suppliers produce goods in response to demand.....

      A fair argument has been made that not enough money was injected into the 'make work' projects. Regardless, our infrastructure is in poor shape. Spending money on roads, bridges, water/sewer systems, levies just doesn't capture the publics attention building a new dam, park or what not. But our infrastructure has suffered budget cuts year after year.

      As for the OT, the country that develops new energy will be the dominate country for the foreseeable future. 60 Minutes did a story last week on Bloom Energy. So far, venture capitalists have invested $400 million on the venture. Ten years in the making and some pretty impressive clients beta testing the technology makes for one of the more impressive potentials to leap forward in not just green energy but to reduce our dependence on oil from outside out borders.

      We need to invest in a green energy program the same way we invested in the Apollo program back in the 1960's. Our future is directly linked to energy.

      Twenty five years from now, residential housing will be off grid. Of course we'll be paying alot more for water. A lot more. The middle east won't be able to give away oil.
      Spiff, we may all be wrong. I agree that alternative energies are a great path towards energy independance, however our financial deficit on federal, state and city levels is so bad I don't know if that is the way to go right now. Some of us think infrastructure and or green jobs should be our top priority, I'm thinking stop spending money we don't have on wars and prioritize. Even with much needed infrastructure projects and smart green energy jobs, don't we need to manufacture what we consume?

      I have seen some video on YouTube, on the bloom box, but not enough details and still too far off when we have immediate problems to resolve. I would imagine unless we start to invest in manufacturing in the USA again, a majority of supplies needed for infrastructure and green projects would be imported. We are forced to bleed out American dollars unless we make more of what we consume. I don't know if we would even be allowed to make some of the things we consume? When President Bush talked about tarriffs on imported steel he was threated by the foreign powers that be and backed down. Imagine if communist china flat out told the USA, "NO!" you must import certain things. Getting back to the bloom box for a minute, I believe it runs on oxygen and various fuel. Can you imagine a source of pure oxygen in the back yards of some folks you know? I think oxygen is more dangerous than propane, so the bloom box for consumer use will need some fool proof safeguards.

      Whatever the priority list and ideas to help our economy are, I hope they are forthcoming real soon. I think we need more of a national plan and not scraps to select states. Big problem demands big fix, and bold action.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

        "Unemployment Hits 10.8%, Presidential Approval Drops to 35%"



        The year was 1983 and the president was Ronald Reagan.

        Obama, despite what has been said, is thus far only responsible for $600 billion of the national debt. I'll admit that that figure is staggering, but considering we were on the brink of economic collapse, the only option we had was to borrow money and invest it in a way that would turn the tide.

        The Congressional Budget Office last week released its study on the impact of the Recovery Act so far:

        The stimulus created up to 2.1 million jobs in the last three months of 2009. It boosted the economy by up to 3.5 percent. It lowered the unemployment rate by up to 2.1 percent during that period. In 2010, the package is expected to boost GDP by between 1.4 percent and 4 percent. In 2010 the package is expected to bring down the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percent and 1.8 percent.

        Yeah, we have a long way to go. Unlike Reagan who significantly raised taxes, the average blue collar worker has been getting a tax cut in their payroll check (which alone accounts for almost $200 billion of the stimulus program - put money in the hands of those that will spend it).

        The bleeding is slowing down. It hasn't stopped, but until we get the patient stabilized and repaired we can't talk about physical therapy. It's still code red. But the prognosis is better than this time last year.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
          "Unemployment Hits 10.8%, Presidential Approval Drops to 35%"



          The year was 1983 and the president was Ronald Reagan.

          Obama, despite what has been said, is thus far only responsible for $600 billion of the national debt. I'll admit that that figure is staggering, but considering we were on the brink of economic collapse, the only option we had was to borrow money and invest it in a way that would turn the tide.

          The Congressional Budget Office last week released its study on the impact of the Recovery Act so far:

          The stimulus created up to 2.1 million jobs in the last three months of 2009. It boosted the economy by up to 3.5 percent. It lowered the unemployment rate by up to 2.1 percent during that period. In 2010, the package is expected to boost GDP by between 1.4 percent and 4 percent. In 2010 the package is expected to bring down the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percent and 1.8 percent.

          Yeah, we have a long way to go. Unlike Reagan who significantly raised taxes, the average blue collar worker has been getting a tax cut in their payroll check (which alone accounts for almost $200 billion of the stimulus program - put money in the hands of those that will spend it).

          The bleeding is slowing down. It hasn't stopped, but until we get the patient stabilized and repaired we can't talk about physical therapy. It's still code red. But the prognosis is better than this time last year.
          Spiff, nothing against your reasoning, but when the pro's use past trends to predict our economic future it really bothers me. When Regan, Carter and past Presidents were in office, the USA made most of what it consumed. We had thriving manufacturing, without doing the research I also sure we were not in debt to communist china to keep us afloat. The illegal population in our country was not 20 million, and the trade deficit was not a trillion dollars.

          The dynamics specific to our current economic and other disturbing national trends has not been seen before and to cure our sick patient unusual and extreme measures must be taken. It appears we cannot "War" our way out of this mess, and we cannot "Borrow", or "Stimulate" the cure either. Maybe this time we will need to build our way out with "Real" jobs that free us from the grip of foreign interests. People who hold President Regan as the man who fixed the country in his time would be very disappointed if he was in office today. In my opinion no one can fix this mess using methods from the past. I believe the patient is barely being kept alive on foreign life support and is slipping closer to death everyday. We need to rehabilitate the patient with home grown nutrition and a quick tract program to get him standing and then walking on his own two feet!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

            To the original question-we've always been "co-workers" (depending on one's definition) since the beginning of society and business.

            Any economy is dependent upon the peoples coexistence and/or trade between one another. There will be highs and lows, rich and poor. And the majority in the middle holding it all together. So I would say we are more dependent to be "co-existers" than "co-workers".

            But something is left out in both mine and your simple analyzation.

            Human behavior.

            One can look at all the numbers of a rising monopoly and quickly come to a reasonable conclusion of what is to occur. Wal-Mart, BOA, HD, etc. can do it cheaper & better so the reasonable conclusion is that they will be the controlling entity.

            Wrong.

            Monopolies have risen again and again all through history. And they all have fallen because they are reliant upon human behavior supporting them.

            We are a picky bunch. Someone will always get tired of the status quo, see an undiscovered opportunity, & come up with something different or the populace will demand something different than the "controlling entity" can or will provide at the time. How do you think the Japanese auto industry developed such a good business against their competition?

            I could go on but am close to "talking above my brain".

            J.C.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              Spiff, nothing against your reasoning, but when the pro's use past trends to predict our economic future it really bothers me. When Regan, Carter and past Presidents were in office, the USA made most of what it consumed. We had thriving manufacturing, without doing the research I also sure we were not in debt to communist china to keep us afloat. The illegal population in our country was not 20 million, and the trade deficit was not a trillion dollars.

              The dynamics specific to our current economic and other disturbing national trends has not been seen before and to cure our sick patient unusual and extreme measures must be taken. It appears we cannot "War" our way out of this mess, and we cannot "Borrow", or "Stimulate" the cure either. Maybe this time we will need to build our way out with "Real" jobs that free us from the grip of foreign interests. People who hold President Regan as the man who fixed the country in his time would be very disappointed if he was in office today. In my opinion no one can fix this mess using methods from the past. I believe the patient is barely being kept alive on foreign life support and is slipping closer to death everyday. We need to rehabilitate the patient with home grown nutrition and a quick tract program to get him standing and then walking on his own two feet!
              Unfortunately that is the situation...

              Through a series of very bad trade treaties our traitorous elected officials have allowed our manufacturing base to be eviscerated by low cost imports from nations on a non-level playing field with their industries fueled by government sponsorship, cheap labor, lack of environmental quality standards, lack of worker safety concerns, etc.

              The corporations purchasing and reselling these goods were very often funded by stocks held in our 401-K investment portfolios where we rejoiced in high returns as one corporation swallowed another with no net gain in productive output and plants closed production down outsourcing jobs to the lowest bidder globally keeping our return on investment high...

              All this as the "experts" said we were shifting from a production economy to a service economy...

              What they really said we were shifting from being a productive nation to a consumer nation which can only last until the money we made from production runs out...

              Guess what? It has...

              Yea we are in a mess and there is only one way out of it...

              We need to start producing again with a lack of investment capitol in most of the population, with the money controlled for the most part by those responsible for the mess....

              Even in a best case scenario it will take years to turn this around...

              Unfortunately the corporate giants are waiting for you to be ready to work under the same pay and working conditions as the work force in Guatemala, China, Malaysia, Viet Nam, Indonesia, Pakistan, India and a bunch of other countries where they find the global low bidder....

              Are you on your knees yet? Ready to be a corporate slave?
              Last edited by Redwood; 02-28-2010, 09:35 AM. Reason: spelling net gain
              411 Plumb Appliance Stimulus Package

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                We need to rehabilitate the patient with home grown nutrition and a quick tract program to get him standing and then walking on his own two feet!
                Well since you've eliminated borrowing money from foreign nations that have a vested interest in us recovering, that leaves private industry to perform the rescue.

                Still waiting for them.

                We need to reinvent ourselves. The smart move would have been to tell the world back in 2001 that rather than respond with a war machine that could possibly bankrupt our country, we are going to invest in energy technologies that will revolutionize the world. Energy is the most fundamental matter in our lives. Always has been, always will be. Nine years and a couple of trillion dollars later, we're in dire straights.

                Science is our key to success. Science will create the jobs of the future. How many jobs today could be possible without technology that was produced in the past 50 years? How many people would it take to do the job one person does today? Worker productivity has increased year after year while worker pay has reversed. The American worker is asked to do more for less. And the beauty of it is the American worker is blamed for industries having to leave the country.

                But then again, we are our own worst enemy. We demand double digit quarterly returns on our 401k's so corporations have to cut costs and raise the profit margin. I call it economic cannibalism.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                  [QUOTE=Redwood;283694]

                  Are you on your knees yet? Ready to be a corporate slave?[/QUOTE]

                  Your humble servant awaits your command master

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                    [QUOTE=plumberscrack;283698]
                    Originally posted by Redwood View Post

                    Are you on your knees yet? Ready to be a corporate slave?[/QUOTE]

                    Your humble servant awaits your command master
                    Never. There will ALWAYS be SPARTACUS!

                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post

                      Never. There will ALWAYS be SPARTACUS!

                      J.C.
                      Or, is it Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin
                      Last edited by Redwood; 02-28-2010, 10:13 AM.
                      411 Plumb Appliance Stimulus Package

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                        [QUOTE=Redwood;283707]
                        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post

                        Or, is it Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin
                        You know better. They'll get an azz-whoopin' when I lead the revolt.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                          Originally posted by Redwood View Post
                          Unfortunately that is the situation...

                          Through a series of very bad trade treaties our traitorous elected officials have allowed our manufacturing base to be eviscerated by low cost imports from nations on a non-level playing field with their industries fueled by government sponsorship, cheap labor, lack of environmental quality standards, lack of worker safety concerns, etc.

                          The corporations purchasing and reselling these goods were very often funded by stocks held in our 401-K investment portfolios where we rejoiced in high returns as one corporation swallowed another with no net gain in productive output and plants closed production down outsourcing jobs to the lowest bidder globally keeping our return on investment high...

                          All this as the "experts" said we were shifting from a production economy to a service economy...

                          What they really said we were shifting from being a productive nation to a consumer nation which can only last until the money we made from production runs out...

                          Guess what? It has...

                          Yea we are in a mess and there is only one way out of it...

                          We need to start producing again with a lack of investment capitol in most of the population, with the money controlled for the most part by those responsible for the mess....

                          Even in a best case scenario it will take years to turn this around...

                          Unfortunately the corporate giants are waiting for you to be ready to work under the same pay and working conditions as the work force in Guatemala, China, Malaysia, Viet Nam, Indonesia, Pakistan, India and a bunch of other countries where they find the global low bidder....

                          Are you on your knees yet? Ready to be a corporate slave?
                          You and I agree on many things, including that switch from production to service economy. Only folks getting "serviced" are Americans! Foreign investors are stripping our carcass and have no interst in our rebirth to a successful, independant and thriving society. The money is not running out, it has run out! We exist with massive government debt and national deficit. The trillion dollar trade deficit proves free trade was a catch phrase that did not represent fair trade. How long can we survive with smoke and mirrors economics of borrowing on credit cards and borrowing from communist china?

                          I don't know if corporations have any interest in saving us, but if our standard of living is reduced to that of the third world I guess the USA will cease to be the world's watchdog? Will russia, communist china, or any other nation take our place?

                          Those who cheered for capitalism as if it was the watermark of democracy and freedom were sadly mistaken. Captialism as I have seen it, evolved to the point of chasing the cheapest labor and least structured environment in a quest for higher profits, Not projecting the death of it's consumer base.

                          Some will argue the USA no longer represents a strong consumer market and that india, communist china and other countries more than make up for our declining purchases. I think we will have to wait and see, but I'm still convinced we need to make what we consume in order to turn it all around.
                          The rest of the world is concerned about their own survival, and we should do the same. I wonder how many ipods, iphones, big screen tv's , car and homes our third world counterparts purchase?
                          Last edited by Frankiarmz; 02-28-2010, 10:54 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                            Originally posted by Redwood View Post
                            Unfortunately that is the situation...

                            Through a series of very bad trade treaties our traitorous elected officials have allowed our manufacturing base to be eviscerated by low cost imports from nations on a non-level playing field with their industries fueled by government sponsorship, cheap labor, lack of environmental quality standards, lack of worker safety concerns, etc.

                            The corporations purchasing and reselling these goods were very often funded by stocks held in our 401-K investment portfolios where we rejoiced in high returns as one corporation swallowed another with no net gain in productive output and plants closed production down outsourcing jobs to the lowest bidder globally keeping our return on investment high...

                            All this as the "experts" said we were shifting from a production economy to a service economy...

                            What they really said we were shifting from being a productive nation to a consumer nation which can only last until the money we made from production runs out...

                            Guess what? It has...

                            Yea we are in a mess and there is only one way out of it...

                            We need to start producing again with a lack of investment capitol in most of the population, with the money controlled for the most part by those responsible for the mess....

                            Even in a best case scenario it will take years to turn this around...

                            Unfortunately the corporate giants are waiting for you to be ready to work under the same pay and working conditions as the work force in Guatemala, China, Malaysia, Viet Nam, Indonesia, Pakistan, India and a bunch of other countries where they find the global low bidder....

                            Are you on your knees yet? Ready to be a corporate slave?
                            You and I agree on many things, including that switch from production to service economy. Only folks getting "serviced" are Americans! Foreign investors are stripping our carcass and have no interst in our rebirth to a successful, independant and thriving society. The money is not running out, it has run out! We exist with massive government debt and national deficit. The trillion dollar trade deficit proves free trade was a catch phrase that did not represent fair trade. How long can we survive with smoke and mirrors economics of borrowing on credit cards and borrowing from communist china?

                            I don't know if corporations have any interest in saving us, but if our standard of living is reduced to that of the third world I guess the USA will cease to be the world's watchdog? Will russia, communist china, or any other nation take our place?

                            Those who cheered for capitalism as if it was the watermark of democracy and freedom were sadly mistaken. Captialism as I have seen it, evolved to the point of chasing the cheapest labor and least structured environment is a quest for higher profits, Not projecting the death of it's consumer base.

                            Some will argue the USA no longer represents a strong consumer market and that india, communist china and other countries more than make up for our declining purchases. I think we will have to wait and see, but I'm still convinced we need to make what we consume in order to turn it all around.
                            The rest of the world is concerned about their own survival, and we should do the same. I wonder how many ipods, iphones, big screen tv's , car and homes our third world counterparts purchase?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                              Originally posted by Redwood View Post
                              Unfortunately the corporate giants are waiting for you to be ready to work under the same pay and working conditions as the work force in Guatemala, China, Malaysia, Viet Nam, Indonesia, Pakistan, India and a bunch of other countries where they find the global low bidder....
                              Yeah, OHSA and the EPA have single handedly destroyed the working environment in this country. If factories did not have to worry about worker safety or polluting the air and/or ground water people rely on, then we would still be manufacturing goods here.

                              Not.

                              Look at the violations that take place even with regulations in place. Imagine the caustic environment and work place if there were no rules. We pushed the buffalo almost to extinction because there were no rules. Our nature to is to overtake systems to the point of collapse. We are by nature greedy. Wall Street is only the latest example.

                              The monied interests really have a declining interest and need in the American consumer market. To assume America deserves or should be the the leading economic factor in the world is hubris.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                                Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                                Yeah, OHSA and the EPA have single handedly destroyed the working environment in this country. If factories did not have to worry about worker safety or polluting the air and/or ground water people rely on, then we would still be manufacturing goods here.

                                Not.

                                Look at the violations that take place even with regulations in place. Imagine the caustic environment and work place if there were no rules. We pushed the buffalo almost to extinction because there were no rules. Our nature to is to overtake systems to the point of collapse. We are by nature greedy. Wall Street is only the latest example.

                                The monied interests really have a declining interest and need in the American consumer market. To assume America deserves or should be the the leading economic factor in the world is hubris.
                                Spiff, you really think the EPA and OSHA would or could exist in communist china, india, or mexico? Not! Life is real cheap, rights absent.
                                America got what it deserved, we ignored the signs and trusted the politicians. Big mistake.

                                I assume you think communsit china, india the government of mexico is not greedy? Not!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X