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In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

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  • #31
    Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZTJohAtkf0
    411 Plumb Appliance Stimulus Package

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    • #32
      Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

      Let's face it, even with the EPA and OSHA Americans get sick from industrial pollution and hurt on the job. These countries where such government oversight does not exist are bound to repeat our mistakes and lose many lives. I refuse to believe businesses and jobs did not move to these countries in part to escape our govermental controls. Capitalism has no regard for the well being of humans or animals.

      I'm not suggesting we throw out government institutions such as the EPA and OSHA, but some rules must be relaxed in order to preserve current American based businesses and encourage new ones. Allow a grace period for conformity, make government monies available. Would we rather bail out banks or help industry return?

      Perhaps our legislators could stop holding hearings on car safety and pass some laws regarding imports, that reward American based business and discourage through limits and tarrifs imports. That is what foreign governments do, why can't we? Do we "deserve" to fail because we are too "liberal" to protect our way of life?

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      • #33
        Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

        Frank - You proved my point nicely.

        Unless you can suspend or relax the laws of physics and/or nature, people will get injured or killed, sick or die because a corporation is in hot pursuit of that god almighty dollar.

        We need a new form of energy. We've seen the damages of fossil fuels on our economy, environment and security. I would be inclined to say forget cap and trade, forget regulating green house gases. In lieu of these regulations we will spend extraordinary amounts of (borrowed) money to make develop renewable energy.

        I know there are some folks that don't believe in global warming, that Al Gore invented it just like he claimed to have invented the Internet (which is another lie created by Ari Fleischer). That doesn't change the fact that the globe is warming. And to those that want to deny it, fine by me, one less person I'll have to worry about when the droughts and famines come on line.

        We are going to need cheap, portable, reliable, renewable energy. Nuclear is only an affordable option so long as the government is willing to subsidize a large portion of the construction of a new plant and then waive any and all liability on the operator.

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        • #34
          Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
          Frank - You proved my point nicely.

          Unless you can suspend or relax the laws of physics and/or nature, people will get injured or killed, sick or die because a corporation is in hot pursuit of that god almighty dollar.

          We need a new form of energy. We've seen the damages of fossil fuels on our economy, environment and security. I would be inclined to say forget cap and trade, forget regulating green house gases. In lieu of these regulations we will spend extraordinary amounts of (borrowed) money to make develop renewable energy.

          I know there are some folks that don't believe in global warming, that Al Gore invented it just like he claimed to have invented the Internet (which is another lie created by Ari Fleischer). That doesn't change the fact that the globe is warming. And to those that want to deny it, fine by me, one less person I'll have to worry about when the droughts and famines come on line.

          We are going to need cheap, portable, reliable, renewable energy. Nuclear is only an affordable option so long as the government is willing to subsidize a large portion of the construction of a new plant and then waive any and all liability on the operator.
          Spiff, I don't doubt global warming. I'm much more certain of man's damage to the earth through pollution. Strong laws against pollution and a free trade that allows businesses to pollute outside of the USA, does not help fight global warming or pollution.

          These days my priorities are more immediate, more along the lines of employing Americans to reduce unemployment, and reducing wasteful government spending so we don't further our debt to communist china.
          I want manufacturing jobs to return, so that we may reduce our outflow of consumer dollars and strengthen our economy. I want manufacturing jobs to return so that there is at least some regulation of pollution which is absent in china, india and mexico.

          In my opinion fair trade, free trade and capitalism need to be redefined for what they really mean. We have a trillion dollar trade deficit which cancels out any thought of free or fair trade. We have a broken economy and massive unemployment which means capitalism given a wide birth had tragic results for the masses.

          America had a golden opportuntiy to explore, develop and transition to alternative energies back during the first gas shortage. Legislators did nothing, Americans did nothing, in fact we went the opposite way and bought bigger homes and cars, moved to the suburbs!

          I'm still open to the idea of alternative energy and if that includes green energy fine. I'm more concerned with America surviving long enough to realize such goals, and to that end I think broad based industry and manufacturing must return. I want to see Americans making what Americans consume. I want Americans to earn a living wage so that they may afford homes and cars and vacations and college educations for their children. I want to see Americans establishing their own small businesses so that they may build and repair the country.

          In my opinion as long as we stay this course to nowhere we are doomed!
          I don't think it much matter who is in charge democrats, or republicans, we need extrodinary changes.

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          • #35
            Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

            Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post


            We need a new form of energy.
            Ya, How about "Human" energy, or are we ALL beneath that now?

            Look at the Amish for example...............

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            • #36
              Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

              Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
              Ya, How about "Human" energy, or are we ALL beneath that now?

              Look at the Amish for example...............
              An extreme example, but it may well come to that one day. For now though, I don't see that as a practical or realistic alternative.

              Frank - I'm with you. Deniers can keep on denying, meanwhile I hoping for the best, expecting the worst. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed. Kinda like Hawaii dodged the tsunami yesterday. They evacuated, no one was injured, everyone was safe, and the tsunami never really became a threat. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

              The closer to home, literally, one can keep their money, the better. Free trade was and still is, a scam. What we need is fair trade.

              A majority of our trade deficit is oil. Getting off the oil teat will go a long way towards keeping our dollars home.

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              • #37
                Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                Spiff, I'm ready for some long over due solar panels at a reasonable price along with other alternatives to free us from oil altogether. I still want us to break the stranglehold caused by the exodus of businesses and jobs in search of slave labor and an environment absent of the EPA and OSHA.

                America is due for another Independance Day, this time the enemy is foreign oil and a combination of shortsighted capitalists and self serving legislators. America, Land of the Free and once again home of the productive!

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                • #38
                  Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                  Frank - One common theme you keep touching on, and I am in 100% agreement, is that capitalism unchecked is unhealthy.

                  Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the best system for determining value. But how do you put a monetary value on a walk in the park on a warm spring day? Or get together with friends and family? We've lost touch with the things that matter.

                  The quarterly reports have taken center stage. We need to reset our priorities.

                  We need to get back on Main Street.

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                  • #39
                    Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                    Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                    Frank - One common theme you keep touching on, and I am in 100% agreement, is that capitalism unchecked is unhealthy.

                    Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the best system for determining value. But how do you put a monetary value on a walk in the park on a warm spring day? Or get together with friends and family? We've lost touch with the things that matter.

                    The quarterly reports have taken center stage. We need to reset our priorities.

                    We need to get back on Main Street.
                    Spiff, we can find the souce of many problems in defining the word "value". The capitalist determines value in terms of lowest cost and highest profit, disregarding all else.

                    I was raised to be an educated consumer, shopping for the lowest price and highest quality.

                    There are many things we cannot put a monetary value on, too many to list. I think we need to shift some of those priceless ideals towards our standard of living and adjust our economic behavior accordingly.

                    Maybe we need to disregard the lower cost imported goods and see the wisdom of buying the more expensive items made by our fellow Americans?
                    The only problem with achieving that goal is reprogramming consumers and big business to invest in America.

                    There is nothing wrong with walks in the park on a warm Spring day, or gathering with family. Those are some of the things money can't buy, but to enjoy such things one must have good physical and emotional health. There are growing numbers of folks who can't seem to enjoy the simple things, the gifts of good health, youth, loved ones and good friends and neighbors, because they are at the end of their financial rope.

                    I find my present financial situation troubling, cause for concern, however I am not at risk of losing my home or going hungry. We don't need to be homeless to appreciate the seriousness of present times.

                    I seize the day and spend time with my wife and children, take time to appreciate nature and the wonder all around. I would feel better though if I could trust the right and necessary steps were being taken by those who are at the helm. I don't have that confidence, and I can't imagine when I will.

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                    • #40
                      Okay guys, I'm gonna rant now.

                      Q:"In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?"

                      A: "No". We will all be "Co-Recipients" of our government "Entitlement" checks.


                      Because according to the new conventional wisdom: Everything in this country is a "Right" not a privilege to be earned, and nothing is your fault, just ask any lawyer or congressman. It's ONLY your fault if you have more money than someone else. Self reliance is SO closed minded! Companies and businesses have endless cash for the taking!

                      This is great! We are NO LONGER RESPONSIBLE for silly things such as:

                      -Not taking advantage of a free K-12 education, never learning to read, yet refusing to do menial labor for a real paycheck. (those jobs are for illegal aliens aren't they?)

                      -Having children and not raising them to survive without breaking the law, or not teaching them manners, respect, courtesy, and personal responsibility. "It takes a village to raise a child", so you don't have to do anything.

                      -Buying a home that others earning several times what you make, could not even afford. Then claiming "the predatorial bank tricked you into it." Walk away, the banks can afford it w/ bailout money.

                      -Not living within your means and using your mortgage as an ATM machine to keep up with the Jones'. It is your constitutional RIGHT to have your Harley, travel trailer, and your Escalade since you can drive them away when you walk away from your zero down interest only adjustable rate mortgage (especially with that 9.9% rate adjustment coming up soon!). You might miss the pool, hot tub, and the built in barbecue on your composite deck w/ pergola (with motorized sun shade) and infrared heaters though.

                      -Go ahead! Max out those credit cards! Those PREDATORS can't take back all that stuff you "Rightfully" bought.

                      -You SHOULD expect "The Company" to raise your pay 20% every year PLUS health and retirement costs, because your Union says they can get it for you. OSHA can handle all the safety garbage. Unions used to take care of that but don't have to anymore. But now, the union can get the bucks!
                      Its those darn Greedy Big Businessman's fault when your company goes bye bye along with your job because they can't compete with their inferior product due to production and labor costs. And a politician walks away with 10 years of your union dues in his pocket. Those four 10 minute breaks per day sure were nice though.

                      -If you stub your toe at work, you SHOULD go out on 100% disability, its your RIGHT, and you're now too depressed and traumatized to work. Besides, your toe still hurts, kind of. Can you say: Free Vicoden For Life!

                      -You SHOULD SUE the manufacturer or company because you burned your tongue on hot coffee, cut your finger in a food processor, or let your child go unsupervised with a plastic toy with a hundred tiny moving parts. "They ought to pay" Its not your fault anymore. They should have WARNED YOU that the coffee is hot, blades are sharp, and your child should not play with a hundred small pieces of plastic! What were they thinking! Besides, they can afford it.

                      -Don't worry! The almighty stimulus is here to "rebuild" all of those roads like they're doing here in California. Now we have "Extra New" roads here because they rebuilt all of the new roads that were just rebuilt two years ago. But now they're EXTRA new! Since they tarred all the roads black with skeleton crews, my 401K has tripled in value!

                      -Blame George Bush? Don't stop there! Blame George WASHINGTON! He started all this America stuff! If it weren't for guys like him, we'd all be Europeans, drive BMW's and be really fashionable! Plus, we wouldn't be in such a rush to go to the doctor in the same week that we call for an appointment. We could wait a few weeks or months, what's the rush?

                      It's not our fault! Its ALWAYS someone else's fault! And they're probably RICH business owners too!.

                      Thanks guys, I feel better now.

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                      • #41
                        Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                        [QUOTE=SpiffPeters;283851]Frank - You proved my point nicely.

                        Unless you can suspend or relax the laws of physics and/or nature, people will get injured or killed, sick or die because a corporation is in hot pursuit of that god almighty dollar.

                        Spiff, That God almighty dollar gets spread around into thousands of folks 401K plans. That God almighty dollar is the reason most of us go to work every day. I realize there are non material things in the world that are of value also but pursuit of the God almighty dollar has pretty much been the way of life for a couple thousand years now. If not for the pursuit of profit, what is the point of being in business ? I'm prety happy that I am invested in corporations that pursue the Dollar. God bless Exxon Mobile
                        sigpic

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                        • #42
                          Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                          [QUOTE=NHMaster3015;283973]
                          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                          Frank - You proved my point nicely.

                          Unless you can suspend or relax the laws of physics and/or nature, people will get injured or killed, sick or die because a corporation is in hot pursuit of that god almighty dollar.

                          Spiff, That God almighty dollar gets spread around into thousands of folks 401K plans. That God almighty dollar is the reason most of us go to work every day. I realize there are non material things in the world that are of value also but pursuit of the God almighty dollar has pretty much been the way of life for a couple thousand years now. If not for the pursuit of profit, what is the point of being in business ? I'm prety happy that I am invested in corporations that pursue the Dollar. God bless Exxon Mobile
                          Yup-

                          G.O.D = Good Ole Dollar

                          They say "money makes the world go round"


                          ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

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                          • #43
                            Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            I'm prety happy that I am invested in corporations that pursue the Dollar. God bless Exxon Mobile
                            I didn't say the dollar is terrible. I said it is imperfect but the best alternative. We have lost touch with "the best things in life are free". You yourself have commented on the unhealthy level of consumerism (IPods, cable tv, and so on).

                            And our 401k's are a large part of the problem. Do you think Exxon Mobile makes decisions base on your best interests? They make decisions based on what will generate the most profit for the corporation at the expense of anything and everything else. What has accentuated this problem is the short sighted investor that lives quarterly report to quarterly report.

                            Business for better or worse, is amoral. It is the person(s) running the business that are corruptible.


                            PlumbingSkool - Don't get me started on that whole god thing.

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                            • #44
                              Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                              Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post

                              And our 401k's are a large part of the problem.
                              Yow know that's an excellent point , 401k's are made up aren't they?

                              I am only 36, so please excuse my ignorance, but didn't "401k's" get invented after the 80's or did we have them before 1980?

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                              • #45
                                Re: In The YEAR 2025 will we all be co-workers?

                                Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                                Yow know that's an excellent point , 401k's are made up aren't they?

                                I am only 36, so please excuse my ignorance, but didn't "401k's" get invented after the 80's or did we have them before 1980?
                                I think it was 1974, but am not sure.

                                401(k)'s are made up, but so are 501(3)(c) charities. It is just a section of the tax code that describes the rules.

                                Saving money for retirement is not a new idea. What the 401k says is that you don't have to pay taxes on the income that you save, but rather you pay taxes when you you withdraw it.

                                I think that encouraging savings is a good thing, since it can help you ride out other problems.

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