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It's not about health care

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  • #46
    Re: It's not about health care

    Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
    Yes, the government can't do anything right.

    In a country with over 300 million people, and 300 million ideas of how things should run, you are going have problems.

    It's interesting how we have come to hate our government more than the insurance companies. A clever tactic.

    I guess our private contractors did a better job over in Iraq than our armed. government trained forces. When was the last time a private company put a man on the moon or a probe on Mars?

    Not everything the government touches turns to junk. I think Medicare and VA patients are generally pretty happy.

    It is immoral to derive a profit from healthcare. Profits are generated by reducing cost and the quickest, easiest way to cut cost is to deny coverage. A CEO doesn't want to meet a room full of investors and tell them how many lives they saved. Those investors want to see a profit.

    So you have to choose. Profits vs. care.
    Private industry DID put men on the moon. Rocketdyne, North American Rockwell, and hosts of others. NASA did have some scientists but mostly they wrote checks.

    On the other hand, NASA went against the (private industry) engineering recommendations and launched the Challenger. Just an example.

    Medicare is in far worse shape than Social Security. THe VA has been heavily criticized for substandard care for years. It is spotty at best.

    The government gave us the current tax code.

    The government operated a public school system that spends more per student than private schools, but gets worse results on standard tests.

    The United States Patent and Trademark Office takes 18 months to issue a patent. I know this for a fact, I just got one on Feb 23. The pace of technology makes this absurd.

    The government mandates 1.6 and 1.28 gpf toilets. But you have to flush many of them them twice. Sometimes three times.

    Yup, they're great managers. How many more examples would you like?

    It is not immoral to make a profit off of healthcare. Everyone should be compensated for their value to society.

    The issue is that in the current system there are serious, over the top abuses. The current system is not self regulating becasue it doesn't operate in a free market (or at least an approximately free market).

    The people enjoying this situation and are not providing healthcare. They are exploiting healthcare. At the public's expense. That's unethical. But mostly it's just stupid, because we, and our government, let it happen.

    Immorality comes into play when people can't get coverage, or are denied treatement that may be appropriate even though their doctors prescribe such treatments.

    Immorality is my friend that learned two days ago that he is terminal. He has been fighting cancer for a couple years at this point. His health insurance benefit has capped. His wife is losing her husband to cancer and her home to foreclosure. Somewhere is an insurance exec in a Mercedes, though.
    Last edited by Andy_M; 03-11-2010, 04:09 PM.

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    • #47
      Re: It's not about health care

      Originally posted by BHD View Post

      I suppose it is immoral for the water company or city to make money off of the water you use?
      Okay you got me there, I happen to be the President of a Water Company which is a non-profit Corporation.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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      • #48
        Re: It's not about health care

        It is immoral that an insurance company make a profit from healthcare. Better?

        What exactly does an insurance company bring to the table? They manage a risk pool, negotiate prices with care providers and pharma. Is there a reason why they do this better than an entity that would not have a profit motive driving decisions?

        As for private contractors over in Iraq, what services are they providing that we couldn't do ourselves for less? How much does it cost to have a PFC washing dishes? KBR had some sweetheart deals over there.

        As for assisted suicide, we have it in Oregon, much to Orrin Hatch and John Ashcroft's unhappiness. They tried to do an end run on Oregon voters (who passed it twice) and make it illegal for physicians to prescribe a lethal dose. The greatest expense in health care for the elderly occurs in the final two weeks. Letting someone choose their time is humane, dignified and cost effective. Why should someone suffer needlessly?

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        • #49
          Re: It's not about health care

          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
          It is immoral that an insurance company make a profit from healthcare. Better?

          What exactly does an insurance company bring to the table? They manage a risk pool, negotiate prices with care providers and pharma. Is there a reason why they do this better than an entity that would not have a profit motive driving decisions?

          As for private contractors over in Iraq, what services are they providing that we couldn't do ourselves for less? How much does it cost to have a PFC washing dishes? KBR had some sweetheart deals over there.

          As for assisted suicide, we have it in Oregon, much to Orrin Hatch and John Ashcroft's unhappiness. They tried to do an end run on Oregon voters (who passed it twice) and make it illegal for physicians to prescribe a lethal dose. The greatest expense in health care for the elderly occurs in the final two weeks. Letting someone choose their time is humane, dignified and cost effective. Why should someone suffer needlessly?
          What the insurance company brings to the table is the ability to carry the risk. It is a myth that insurance companies never go broke. I lost 5-figures when an insurance company I was represented went bankrupt. Then the court appointed executor promised to pay me that money plus any new charges if I would continued on with the cases. That was 5-years ago and I never did get paid. In addition, My Life Insurance company I paid into for years and years went bankrupt and I lost my coverage and all I had paid in except for $1,200.

          What KBR and similar outfits bring to Iraq is the ability to man positions. Where would the DOD all of a sudden find an extra 200,000 soldiers if all of the contractors were fired. In addition, KBR is one of the largest Engineering and Construction company in the World. They build projects no one in the military could build. Furthermore, ask any soldier who has returned from Iraq or Afghanistan and they will tell you their housing and meals provided by subcontractors makes being over there a lot easier.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: It's not about health care

            Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
            What exactly does an insurance company bring to the table? They manage a risk pool, negotiate prices with care providers and pharma. Is there a reason why they do this better than an entity that would not have a profit motive driving decisions?
            Yes. Efficiency. A for-profit concern will do better at being efficient than a government agency. This is the basic productivity argument for our system as opposed to socialism or communism.

            This doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't regulate the insurance companies or even cap profits. In fact, the harder you make if for a firm to realize profitability, the harder they will work at being efficient. When things get easy, people tend to get lazy.

            But if you want to really screw it up, nationalize it.

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