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Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

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  • #31
    Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

    Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
    I think it is pretty obvious who has fostered the culture of violence as well as who keeps fanning the flame. I haven't seen or read any accounts of republicans being on the receiving end of threats and violence.

    You say you're an instructor. Do you work at a private facility by chance?

    Sure employers can eventually drop insurance and just pay the fine. The smart employers will lure the good employees away with a health insurance plan.

    Besides, the employer doesn't really pay the insurance premiums. Just like the employer doesn't pay the taxes. These are operating costs that are simply built into the selling price of the goods or services.
    Of course using your logic, the employer does not pay the employee's salary, the real estate costs, the material cost, the advertising cost, the electric bill and on and on and on.

    This Bill will increase the cost of everything we buy. This reform may or may not be a good thing but it does not change the fact it will increase the cost to do business. All one needs to do is look at San Francisco which already mandates health insurance to see the new "insurance surcharge" at many restaurants. They may be doing it for show but when you get your bill their is an additional charge to help pay for the required insurance.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

      Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
      The United States is, I believe, the only industrialized country that ties health insurance to the workplace.
      Because the United States is the only industrialized nation that doesn't have universal health. The United States does not consider health care a right.

      If you do think health care is a right then you don't believe we should be paying taxes to provide paramedics or EMT's. You believe that before you are admitted to an emergency room that you need to produce proof of insurance, credit card, cash, check, money order or some instrument demonstrating to the hospital that your good for whatever expenses you rack up while there.

      If you think health care is not a right, then lets treat it like any other commodity. You get what you pay for. Not one cent more. once your care has exceeded the premiums you have paid, treatment stops. You don't have a right to receive something you have not paid for in full.

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      • #33
        Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
        If you think health care is not a right, then lets treat it like any other commodity. You get what you pay for. Not one cent more. once your care has exceeded the premiums you have paid, treatment stops. You don't have a right to receive something you have not paid for in full.
        This is part of the problem, when you pay premiums you think you're paying for healthcare. You are paying for health care when you pay your doctor. When you pay premiums, you are offloading financial risk to someone else.

        If a term life insurance policy only paid out what you paid in, it would be useless. For a young person like myself, it is going to pay out in the neighborhood of 100 times what I paid in; unless of course it pays out nothing.

        Same thing with auto insurance, sometimes it pays out more sometimes it pays out less.

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        • #34
          Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

          Now the question is how many of you that run/own your own businesses are hiring or are planning on hiring?

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          • #35
            Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

            Originally posted by EasyEman View Post
            Now the question is how many of you that run/own your own businesses are hiring or are planning on hiring?
            I talked to someone yesterday who inquired about a job at Wal-Mart and they were told there is a hiring freeze until they figure things out. I don't know if that was at a single store or corporate wide.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

              If you do think health care is a right then you don't believe we should be paying taxes to provide paramedics or EMT's. You believe that before you are admitted to an emergency room that you need to produce proof of insurance, credit card, cash, check, money order or some instrument demonstrating to the hospital that your good for whatever expenses you rack up while there.

              I think this is backwards.

              Health care is a luxury afforded to us because of our affluence. I don't believe we should encourage people to stop working. We provide food and shelter now health what is the point of being a positive part of the economy.

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              • #37
                Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                Originally posted by EasyEman View Post
                Health care is a luxury afforded to us because of our affluence.[/SIZE] I don't believe we should encourage people to stop working. We provide food and shelter now health what is the point of being a positive part of the economy.
                How is it then that less affluent nations are able to provide health care for their patients? I'd say it's a matter of priorities. A healthy nation is a wealthy nation. In the US, we have it the other way around, A wealthy nation is a healthy nation.

                I hear plenty of anecdotal evidence of problems with other nationalized health care systems but very little fact. I can just as easily provide stories from people that like their nationalized health care system

                Many models exist throughout the world. We know what works and what doesn't work. And what we have had for the past twenty years has not worked to the average citizens advantage.

                We have some of the best, if no the best (lets be clear here, other nations are not standing around waiting to trickle down US medical technology) medical care in the world. We also suffer the worst system of delivering this care.
                Last edited by SpiffPeters; 03-26-2010, 10:19 AM.

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                • #38
                  Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                  Well they aren't able to afford it they just keep taking on more and more debt. Greece & Portugal not affording it at all.

                  Most nations do no more than vacinations and band aids, Asia, Africa, Central America.

                  The Countries we compare ourselves to are affluent. Canada, UK , Sweden all big economies.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                    Originally posted by EasyEman View Post
                    Well they aren't able to afford it they just keep taking on more and more debt. Greece & Portugal not affording it at all.

                    Most nations do no more than vacinations and band aids, Asia, Africa, Central America.

                    The Countries we compare ourselves to are affluent. Canada, UK , Sweden all big economies.
                    Furthermore, those countries are not one trillion in debt fighting wars they can't pay for! How many jobs have those countries handed over to the rest of the world? How many illegals burdening those countries? The USA is unique and there is no money to pay for the wars, pay to run state governments, unemployment, or heathcare for all after the sweetheart deals.

                    You want healthcare to be a right? Then figure a way to stop the wars, stop the debt to communist china, and employ Americans so it can be paid for by the millions currently unemployed.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                      Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                      The United States is, I believe, the only industrialized country that ties health insurance to the workplace.
                      There is a handful of countries that also have health insurance tied to employment. I can't find that list at the moment.

                      Where the US differs from the rest of the industrialized world is other countries have defined 'basic health care' and have policies to ensure it is provided to all of their citizens regardless of their employment.

                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                      4. If you don't get insurance from your employer, that might change.
                      Starting in 2014, if your company employs more than 50 people, it will be required to offer you a health plan that covers at least 60 percent of your overall health costs, or the company will be fined $750 per year per full-time worker. That fine could increase to $2,000 if the reconciliation act passes.

                      I guess now the employers currently paying $10,000 per year to cover their employee can cancel all of the policies and save some money by just paying the fines.
                      I'm not sure what that changes from the current law. Prior to the bill companies had no federal requirement to provide health insurance and could choose to cancel all of the policies anyway. The bill provides more incentive by fining companies who don't

                      Prior to the bill a company could save 10,000 per year by not covering an employee. After the bill a company can only save 8,000 by canceling the policy.

                      Either way companies aren't providing health insurance because a direct profit motive. They are providing it to attract good employees and maintain a healthy workforce which in the long run is better for the companies profits. Any point the cost of the health care exceeds the perceived long term profit it makes sense for a company to cancel. The fine adds a 2000 dollar per employee incentive on that scale for them to keep coverage.

                      It is good argument that the government providing health care will motivate employers not to provide coverage. If the government is going put a safety net for those not insured by their employer, employers can comfortable push people into that net and still get the benefits of a healthy workforce without the full direct cost.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                        Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                        5 key things to remember about health care reform



                        Source:

                        http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/25...ex.html?hpt=C1 1. Health insurance companies can't discriminate against you because you have a pre-existing condition.

                        In the meantime, if you have a pre-existing condition, starting in 90 days you should be able to join a national high-risk pool, according to Linda Blumberg, a senior fellow at the Urban Institute. She also recommends finding out whether your state has an existing state high-risk pool. Here is contact information for the 35 states that have high-risk pools from the National Association of State Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans.


                        2. Young people can remain on parents' insurance until age 26.
                        The health care reform legislation requires insurance companies to allow dependent children to stay on their parents' insurance policies until age 26. The children can't have jobs that offer insurance, and they must be claimed as dependents on their parents' taxes.


                        3. You could get a subsidy to buy insurance if you make less than $88,000 per year for a family of four.


                        Starting in 2014, the health care reform bill provides subsidies for people who don't get insurance from their employers and therefore have to buy it on their own. The size of the subsidy depends on your income, whether you're single or have a family, your age, and where you live.


                        4. If you don't get insurance from your employer, that might change.
                        Starting in 2014, if your company employs more than 50 people, it will be required to offer you a health plan that covers at least 60 percent of your overall health costs, or the company will be fined $750 per year per full-time worker. That fine could increase to $2,000 if the reconciliation act passes.


                        5. The health care reform legislation has some benefits for senior citizens, but it might have some disadvantages as well.
                        The AARP, formerly known as the American Association of Retired Persons, says health care legislation does two important things for seniors: It gives people on Medicare new access to free preventive services such as screenings for cancer and diabetes. Also, by 2020 it will close the "doughnut hole," the gap in Part-D where Medicare stops paying once a senior has spent more than $2,830 on prescription drugs and resumes when the individual's out-of-pocket spending has reached about $4,550.
                        I really do not have any problem with the "improvements" in actual "health care" but if the things you list is what is needed then what are the other 2699 pages for?
                        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
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                        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                          Human Rights... Go stand in the wilderness or on a mountain top somewhere by yourself. Just wait! Don't hunt, don't go get water, don't build a shelter just stay there.

                          What ever comes to you is your right.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                            I've never encountered anything that did not have both positives and negatives.

                            So I'll post a question for those that seem to be very much in favor of the reform. (Skool, Redwood, Spiff, James)

                            What are the negatives associated with the Bill/Law?


                            And on the other side, those that seem to be very against the Bill/Law (NH, Utah, Frankie, others) what are the positives?

                            I'm asking for a couple of reasons...

                            J.C.
                            I got one answer out of at least 7+ people. (Frankiarmz)

                            Anyone else?

                            Thanks.

                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              You want healthcare to be a right? Then figure a way to stop the wars, stop the debt to communist china, and employ Americans so it can be paid for by the millions currently unemployed.
                              Actually Franki, while China is clearly the single largest foreign holder of our debt, they are not the only nation. Japan isn't far behind yet no one ever mentions them, and last I checked they were not a communist country. Matter of fact, communist China holds a small percentage of our national debt. So to be fair, lets frame the issue in a fair an balanced fashion; most of our debt is held by democratic nations.

                              Do you know how much of our debt communist China holds? Do you know how democratic Japan holds? Do you know what democratic nations holds the single largest amount of our debt?

                              We're tacitly supporting the Islamic terrorists when we buy SUV's and other gas hog vehicles. Buying a gas sipping vehicle, riding a bike or mass transit contributes to the war effort. The less commerce we do with the middle east, the less money they have to wage war against us. Pretty simple concept.

                              I'm not advocating like some in the past the debts do not matter. And while I agree that our exporting of democracy has been far more costly in treasury and blood than those who cheered us into it admitted up front, the fact of the matter is we are stuck there and there is not reasonable way out in the near future. Obama gets skewered because he doesn't use the word terrorist or war on terror as often as the last guy in office. Imagine what the repubs would not only say, but do if Obama pulled the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan now. Wouldn't be pretty.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                                I've posted this before. It's interesting to me and thought others may have missed it. Video and links to other video and information. Worth checking out in my opinion.

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QwX_soZ1GI

                                http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...rld/countries/

                                Videos related to the above links. Several segments on the page.

                                http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ce=videosearch

                                J.C.

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