Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
    Anyone that has ever dated should know that nothing is free It's just that sometimes it takes awhile for the bill to come due
    I saw a good movie years ago with Burt Reynolds called "Safe Men". He plays a seasoned safe cracker training a young assistant. One evening they meet a couple attractive ladies and spend the night together. In the morning Burt pays the women and they leave. The young man is very upset and tells Burt he has never paid for the company of a woman. Burts reply was so true, I'll never forget it, he tells the young man, one way or another you always pay, wheter its dinner and a movie or marriage you pay.

    I won't say never, but rarely is anything free. The new healthcare plan may be free for some, but most of us will be paying.

    I don't know exactly how the program cuts should be made, but if we are really in such bad shape there is no sensible alternative. The money has to come from somewhere and the bill is coming due!

    No one has answered me as to how our present situation will change to bring back jobs and employ Americans. I take that as a sign that our economy is doomed. How much longer will we be given loans we clearly cannot pay back? When does the economy crumble? Two years in 2012?
    I'm sure some folks find that funny, it just can't happen, things are not that bad. Really?

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
      No one has answered me as to how our present situation will change to bring back jobs and employ Americans. I take that as a sign that our economy is doomed. How much longer will we be given loans we clearly cannot pay back? When does the economy crumble? Two years in 2012?
      I'm sure some folks find that funny, it just can't happen, things are not that bad. Really?
      Our economy was doomed when someone coined the phrase "We are shifting to a service economy."

      What that really meant was we are no longer producing but we are consuming...
      What we used to produce is now being produced in other countries by the lowest bidder globally thanks to a series of lopsided free trade agreements...

      In our country we have high standards for worker safety and benefits while in many of the countries we are competing against the workers are simply cannon fodder...

      Rather than have trade agreements that raise the standards of these countries we enter into agreements that simply allow the continued practice of oh no the machine ate the worker...
      Get the carcass out of the way and get a replacement worker over here to start production again...

      Eventually we will be willing to work in those same low wage, dangerous conditions...

      In a service economy the money is on a one-way street out of the country.
      A service economy only lasts until there is no money left to buy services...
      Last edited by Redwood; 03-28-2010, 09:22 AM. Reason: spelling correction
      411 Plumb Appliance Stimulus Package

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

        Originally posted by Redwood View Post
        Our economy was doomed when someone coined the phrase "We are shifting to a service economy."

        What that really meant was we are no longer producing but we are consuming...
        What we used to produce is now being produced in other countries by the lowest bidder globally thanks to a series of lopsided free trade agreements...

        In our country we have high standards for worker safety and benefits while in many of the countries we are competing against the workers are simply cannon fodder...

        Rather than have trade agreements that raise the standards of these countries we enter into agreements thats simply allow the continued practice of oh no the machine ate the worker...
        Get the carcass out of the way and get a replacement worker over here to start production again...

        Eventually we will be willing to work in those same low wage, dangerous conditions...

        In a service economy the money is on a one-way street out of the country.
        A service economy only lasts until there is no money left to buy services...
        Almost the exact words from the mouth of my Raygun loving neocon brother-in-law back in the 80's. He thought it was a great idea. He was making big bucks as a motivational speaker.

        We all can't be repairmen, waiters, and shoeshine boys. Someone is going to have to make stuff.!!!

        James

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

          Originally posted by Redwood View Post
          Our economy was doomed when someone coined the phrase "We are shifting to a service economy."

          What that really meant was we are no longer producing but we are consuming...
          What we used to produce is now being produced in other countries by the lowest bidder globally thanks to a series of lopsided free trade agreements...

          In our country we have high standards for worker safety and benefits while in many of the countries we are competing against the workers are simply cannon fodder...

          Rather than have trade agreements that raise the standards of these countries we enter into agreements that simply allow the continued practice of oh no the machine ate the worker...
          Get the carcass out of the way and get a replacement worker over here to start production again...

          Eventually we will be willing to work in those same low wage, dangerous conditions...

          In a service economy the money is on a one-way street out of the country.
          A service economy only lasts until there is no money left to buy services...
          There are two kinds of people in business. One is the kind that is in business to create and to build. The other kind comes in after someone else has built something and milks it dry.

          The enormous manufacturing capacity of the United States was a result of the hard work of those that wanted to build something. The 'service economy' is an invention of the parasites that only see the financial rules and play them to extract as much as they can in as short a time as possible. They don't care about the long-term. As long as they can get theirs so they're taken care of, why should they care about the long term health of a company or industry?

          In the seventies, these finance oriented parasites realized that if they exploited other countries for prodution, they could maximize their profits Labor was cheap, there were few regulations, little if any payroll taxes such as FICA or medicare to deal with, no OSHA, no EPA, no benefits. And no significant tariffs on imported goods. The advantages were so financially overwhelming that American dollars built the factories, just like American dollars built the oil facilities in the middle east.

          Why would any sane parasite want to invest in manufacturing in the United States when you can get so much more bang for the buck in the third world? Of course, as this course of action unfolded, and less and less money was invested in US manufacturing, we became less competitive. Low volumes, obsolete factories, high wages, strict safety and environmental regulations all conspired to put the US out of business.

          The service economy proponents claimed that the US would still provide the lion's share of the tech development and design. This has proven to be untrue. Enrollment in technical education programs in United States universities for science and engineering have increasing numbers of foreign nationals. Graduate programs in these areas are dominated by non-citizens. And India as well as several other Asian countries are making heavy investment in building or improving their own educational institutions. The fact is that they can read the same books that our kids can read. It's arrogant and unrealistic to hold the view that we somehow own the technological leadership role. Fact is, other countries are emphasizing technology and we are de-emphasizing it - except that we like to consume the tech gadgets. Today - not in the future - there is a massive shift towards outsourcing engineering analysis and design to other countries. China, Korea, and other countries include technology transfer in any deals they make to buy anything from the US - serious technology, like aerospace and electronics. And we stupidly agree, because it adds to the short term bottom line.

          Lamenting the situation isn't going to help. There needs to be some fundamental changes to the rules of the game. The place to start is the tax code. We need to tax imports and tax outsourced labor contracts so that it is not attractive realtive to keeping that work in the United States. We need strong incentives for investing in US manufacturing technology. We need changes that reward long term profitability and growth and discourage decisions that provide gains in the short term. We need a national energy policy that will end the massive outflow of dollars and enable our industry to claim an advantage, and subsidies to rebuild critical and strategic industry. We need to insist that goods imported in the US are produced in acordace with the same environmental and safety regulations in those factories that US factories would be subject to.

          Instead we get entitlement programs gone berserk, bank bailouts, stimulus packages that don't accompish anything, oil wars, deficit spending, Federal Reserve monetary policy that serves the baking industry, and now a healthcare reform bill that offers a few crumbs and a lot of nonsense.

          It doesn't seem like it should be that complicated. We have to work hard and compete. We need government that will stop catering to the financial interests that are making money off of the current situation. We need common sense.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

            Andy M for President!
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              Andy M for President!
              I agree No thank,s button on Your Puter ?
              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                I received a prospectus in the mail yesterday for one of my investments. I read through it for about ten minutes and ended throwing it away. When a footnote references a secondary footnote that references yet another footnote, it starts to feel like a game of three card monty.

                They may be filling their legal obligation to provide me the technical information, but it may as well be written in Latin.

                Wall Street has carte Blanche because the average joe doesn't have the resources (namely time) to translate their legalese into plain english, and even then the accounting practices have been shown to be creative at best.

                When it comes to money, I trust the government more than Wall Street.





                By about .001% on a good day. Come April 15th that ratio may flip for a day or two.

                The only reason I'll give the government a .001% edge is because every two years I get a chance to hold someone marginally accountable. I think there are some good people with good intentions in government. Not many mind you, but a few.

                There isn't one honest broker on Wall Street.

                And the two most evil words ever uttered, and most misunderstood are Free Trade. Unfortunately, most people assume this meant Fair Trade. Nothing could have been further from the truth. You can't put that genie back in the bottle.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                  This thread is dead, bury it!
                  I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                    HCR passed. The process was far more public than any other piece of legislation in recent memory. The Patriot Act, which has a far more fundamental impact on our rights, is one of the more obscure bills passed. But because it contained the word Patriot in the title it was difficult, and continues to be, difficult to have a reasoned and civil debate.

                    I agree the process was horrible. The repubs decided to derail the bill rather than engage and be a minority participant, which last I checked they were still in the minority, which means they don't get more than 49% of what they want even though they only have 41% of the senate. The dems fronted them the other 8% points.

                    Now that this is law, and contains some repub ideas, its time for both parties to sit down and start making it better. Repeal and reform may fit on a button or bumper sticker, but it isn't going to happen. Honest and responsible debate is what is called for now. Enough with the parliamentary stall tactics, step up and cast your vote.

                    Make the bill better, not demagogue it.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                      Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                      HCR passed. The process was far more public than any other piece of legislation in recent memory. The Patriot Act, which has a far more fundamental impact on our rights, is one of the more obscure bills passed. But because it contained the word Patriot in the title it was difficult, and continues to be, difficult to have a reasoned and civil debate.

                      I agree the process was horrible. The repubs decided to derail the bill rather than engage and be a minority participant, which last I checked they were still in the minority, which means they don't get more than 49% of what they want even though they only have 41% of the senate. The dems fronted them the other 8% points.

                      Now that this is law, and contains some repub ideas, its time for both parties to sit down and start making it better. Repeal and reform may fit on a button or bumper sticker, but it isn't going to happen. Honest and responsible debate is what is called for now. Enough with the parliamentary stall tactics, step up and cast your vote.

                      Make the bill better, not demagogue it.
                      Spiff, to think they are going to dedicate more time and energy to this legislation given the economy seems insane. The republicans are the minorty in government, but if this had been on a ballot I bet the voting majority would have sided with the republicans.

                      Can the country afford to waste more precious time ignoring the unemployment, government overspending and mounting debt?

                      Sure, every effort should be made to refine this legislation, but is that the right decision, right now? I think the clock and money will run out before that question is answered. We may be in much worse shape because of the time wasted to pass much needed legislation.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                        I'm not suggesting they invest another 14 months in fixing the bill. Fixes will be incremental and should not be as consuming as getting the bill passed in the first place.

                        Next up is fixing financial regulation. I'm skeptical that any real reform will take place. I think they'll just change the drapes, slap a fresh coat of paint on the walls, rearrange the furniture and call it good.

                        The problems are so fundamental that any real reform would shake the very foundations of Wall Street. And I don't think Wall Street will be shy about throwing their/our money around this fall.

                        Would you want to take on a constituency with hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on ads "explaining" how evil you are?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                          It's easy to say the Republicans tried to derail the Bill but let's remember much of the Bill was written without any input from them and behind closed doors. Even the Democrats complained about Reid locking himself in his office to write this Bill. I believe there could have been more support had the Bill been created in a Bipartisan Committee.

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                            It's easy to say the Republicans tried to derail the Bill but let's remember much of the Bill was written without any input from them and behind closed doors. Even the Democrats complained about Reid locking himself in his office to write this Bill. I believe there could have been more support had the Bill been created in a Bipartisan Committee.

                            Mark
                            No one was truly happy with the way Reid went ahead, but the attempts to create a bill in a by partisan fashion were failing miserable the Republicans were not interested in allowing a Democratic run senate accomplishing anything regardless of it's intentions. They started with a position of breaking the country for political reasons. 'Health-care reform will be his Waterloo' was a Republican strategy from the beginning. I can think of few things more un-American then hoping and working to make the American president fail.

                            The bill Reid wrote including many things that the Republican party had previously supported. The Republicans got to further include their input in the over in the form of 721 proposed amendments, of which the senate included 161 over them. The Democrats proposed 67, of which 36 were included.

                            The Republican position was they would not vote for a health-care bill under any circumstances. At what point is a bill considered to have Republican input? 200 amendments? 600? The entirety of the bill?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                              So let's see. Now that the Dems have rammed through a bill that 70% of the people did not want and they did it without any bi-partisan debate, now that they have it through and have checked the poll numbers, Pelosi at 8% favorability rating, Congress at 64% negative, now you want to debate this mess so that just perhaps they don't get their butts kicked in November. Give me a break. It's over. The party took the gamble and now they will pay the price. Get it through your heads. People in this country are angry, pissed off, we have had enough of the lies, the spin the BS and having our pockets picked.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Healthcare IS NOW LAW!!!

                                I believe there was a lot of objection to the Bill by not just the Republicans but by the majority of the United States. It was not necessarily even about the Bill. A lot of it had to with timing and the fact that there are so many other priorities which needed to be addressed.

                                Even though the polls showed the majority opposed the so-called reform Bill, the Democrats forced it through. While the Republicans listened to the people, the Democrats said take it whether you want it or not and will learn to like it some day.

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X