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  • Oil Drilling

    http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/03...-to-74696.html

    I actually think this is a good move by the administration. I would have liked to have seen more opened up along the California and Alaska coasts, but I'll take it.

    Having exploration along the East Coast seems like a good thing (though it is unclear why we should stop at NJ). Having limited exploration and study along the east coast first makes sense, so that we know what is out there before we start with large-scale production leases.

    I hope this actually ends up with increased U.S. petroleum production.

  • #2
    Re: Oil Drilling

    We know the oil is in Alaska. If the President's intention was to get oil he would work to open up Alaska.

    He wants to appear moderate when he hits us with cap and trade.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Oil Drilling

      When President Obama was running for office he did not think this was a good idea. I'm at the point now where I don't care if we drill in the gulf and ruin wild life in Alaska, but we could have elected a republican and done this a lot sooner.

      Let's see we are still at war and spending out of control
      Bailing out businesses
      Taxing my medical benefits
      Special deals and dirty politics
      Drilling for oil
      I thought McCain lost the election?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Oil Drilling

        Seems McCain and Obama were two sides of the same coin.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Oil Drilling

          Yup, were going to reduce our dependence on "foreign" oil. And the check is in the mail, I will still love you in the morning, now what was that third one?

          Where is this oil going to be refined? Since quite a few U. S. refineries have "closed for repairs" and may never be reopened, any oil produced will be sold to refineries overseas where it is cheaper to refine. The oil products will still be controlled by OPEC and the other foreign oil companies. We will still be dependent on them for oil produced in our country.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Oil Drilling

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            When President Obama was running for office he did not think this was a good idea. I'm at the point now where I don't care if we drill in the gulf and ruin wild life in Alaska, but we could have elected a republican and done this a lot sooner.

            Let's see we are still at war and spending out of control
            Bailing out businesses
            Taxing my medical benefits
            Special deals and dirty politics
            Drilling for oil
            I thought McCain lost the election?
            Hi Frank it sounds better every time you say it.

            Tony

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Oil Drilling

              Originally posted by AFM View Post
              Hi Frank it sounds better every time you say it.

              Tony
              Tony, I may have been gullable to vote for Obama and his campaign talk, but I don't wear blinders. I look for the actions, the results, and they are very disappointing. If Obama's white house education is a realization that republicans had it right, then there is clearly no worthwhile change to come.

              People who are still cheering for President Obama, need to understand the striking similarities in what he is doing and what John McCain said during the campaign. I am still hoping for a miracle that will turn our economy around, but as far as the promised "Change we can believe in", that's dead and buried.

              My taxes will go up, the behavior of my governing party has not changed, my coastal waters are still at risk, my neighbors Son's and Daughter's are still dying and being wounded abroad, our jobs are still on the decline, our citizens are still losing healthcare, jobs and homes.

              I may sound like a broken record, but to the folks who are living this nightmare there are no smiles, no hope, no change!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Oil Drilling

                Originally posted by EasyEman View Post
                We know the oil is in Alaska. If the President's intention was to get oil he would work to open up Alaska.

                He wants to appear moderate when he hits us with cap and trade.
                We also know there is oil in California, but I'm sure Queen Nancy doesn't want to drill. At least that oil will still be there later. The gulf is going to be sucked dry by the Russians (via Cuba) unless we drill it out first.

                I wouldn't have been surprised if there was no drilling at all. I know that I won't get exactly what I want from this administration; but I'll take something that I think is relatively reasonable. Not everyone wants dozens of new nuclear power plants, and lots of oil drilling.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Oil Drilling

                  I would strongly prefer not to see oil drilling.

                  I would also prefer to see the taxes on gasoline tripled and $10 per gallon gasoline would be a-ok with me.

                  Before you all joint the lynch mob and come after me, consider that outrageously expensive motor fuel is probably the only thing that could happen that would cause the United States to get serious about developing alternate energy. We've been ignoring the issue for nearly 40 years, it's helped destroy the balance of trade, upset the balance of power in the world, funded terrorist governments, and whether you believe in global warming or not, combustion of fossil fuel certainly hasn't helped the environment.

                  After 40 years it should be quite clear that our government will not take the initiative, beyond the lip service they've given it all these years, because the energy lobbies don't want them to. Oil generates insane profits, and as we all should know by now, those with the money rule the day, every day.

                  The OPECers are well aware that the United States is the only country with the technical resources and infrastructure to actually develop viable, practical alternatives to oil. They are very careful to keep the cost of oil as high as they dare but just below the threshold that will drive the United States to snap the hell out of our incomprehensible stupor and get to work on the problem. The last thing they want to do is wake the sleeping giant that will put them out of business.

                  Domestic oil drilling doesn't solve anything in the long view, it only will provide a justification for continued delay in solving the real problem.

                  Time is not our friend in this. With the economy on the skids, and the national debt rising thanks to continued moronic spending on everything that doesn't matter, we are soon going to find that we no longer have the ability to fund the massive program it will take to develop alternate energy. Based on the growth of the debt, looming inflation, and our continued loss of industrial production and its associated revenue that the Government seems unconcerned with, we are unlikely to be able to respond to the problem in as soon as ten years.

                  Expensive gasoline is painful... but it won't be fatal. On the other hand, more years of delay in getting to work on the problem of energy independence will be.

                  Domestic oil drilling is yet another poor move on the energy front.
                  Last edited by Andy_M; 04-01-2010, 10:44 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Oil Drilling

                    I don't live in Neverland! Open up drilling for real, We need More than a token well in N.J.
                    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Oil Drilling

                      Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                      I would strongly prefer not to see oil drilling.

                      I would also prefer to see the taxes on gasoline tripled and $10 per gallon gasoline would be a-ok with me.

                      Before you all joint the lynch mob and come after me, consider that outrageously expensive motor fuel is probably the only thing that could happen that would cause the United States to get serious about developing alternate energy. We've been ignoring the issue for nearly 40 years, it's helped destroy the balance of trade, upset the balance of power in the world, funded terrorist governments, and whether you believe in global warming or not, combustion of fossil fuel certainly hasn't helped the environment.

                      After 40 years it should be quite clear that our government will not take the initiative, beyond the lip service they've given it all these years, because the energy lobbies don't want them to. Oil generates insane profits, and as we all should know by now, those with the money rule the day, every day.

                      The OPECers are well aware that the United States is the only country with the technical resources and infrastructure to actually develop viable, practical alternatives to oil. They are very careful to keep the cost of oil as high as they dare but just below the threshold that will drive the United States to snap the hell out of our incomprehensible stupor and get to work on the problem. The last thing they want to do is wake the sleeping giant that will put them out of business.

                      Domestic oil drilling doesn't solve anything in the long view, it only will provide a justification for continued delay in solving the real problem.

                      Time is not our friend in this. With the economy on the skids, and the national debt rising thanks to continued moronic spending on everything that doesn't matter, we are soon going to find that we no longer have the ability to fund the massive program it will take to develop alternate energy. Based on the growth of the debt, looming inflation, and our continued loss of industrial production and its associated revenue that the Government seems unconcerned with, we are unlikely to be able to respond to the problem in as soon as ten years.

                      Expensive gasoline is painful... but it won't be fatal. On the other hand, more years of delay in getting to work on the problem of energy independence will be.

                      Domestic oil drilling is yet another poor move on the energy front.
                      I'm not advocating we lynch you, but consider this before you say $10 a gallon gasoline is not fatal. There are many folks with cancer and other life threatening conditions who depend on their cars to go back and forth to the hospital or clinic for treatment. There are folks whose families depend on them driving to work to keep them afloat and some are barely making it. In theory very expensive gasoline, heating oil and other oil products would push for alternative energy or oil resources, but practical application would probably kill a lot of folks and make many more unemployed and homeless.

                      I agree that something needs to be done, but exactly what and how is debatable. I would consider opening the federal reserves and lowering the price per gallon to $.50. Sounds insane, but you would enable a lot more folks to travel and find work, or continue to work and spend money throughout the economy and not just on gasoline! While the price is lowered and people can commute, build manufacturing plants to employ Americans who would make low cost solar panel and wind turbine parts.

                      We can either continue to shrink our economy, mobility and standard of living, or be bold and invest in the things that can truly make alternative energy a reality. Imagine if a standard home installation for solar energy was $10,000 instead of $50,000?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Oil Drilling

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        I'm not advocating we lynch you, but consider this before you say $10 a gallon gasoline is not fatal. There are many folks with cancer and other life threatening conditions who depend on their cars to go back and forth to the hospital or clinic for treatment. There are folks whose families depend on them driving to work to keep them afloat and some are barely making it. In theory very expensive gasoline, heating oil and other oil products would push for alternative energy or oil resources, but practical application would probably kill a lot of folks and make many more unemployed and homeless.

                        I agree that something needs to be done, but exactly what and how is debatable. I would consider opening the federal reserves and lowering the price per gallon to $.50. Sounds insane, but you would enable a lot more folks to travel and find work, or continue to work and spend money throughout the economy and not just on gasoline! While the price is lowered and people can commute, build manufacturing plants to employ Americans who would make low cost solar panel and wind turbine parts.

                        We can either continue to shrink our economy, mobility and standard of living, or be bold and invest in the things that can truly make alternative energy a reality. Imagine if a standard home installation for solar energy was $10,000 instead of $50,000?

                        Well.... everyone "says" that they would be willing to accept that there is a price to pay for some of the things that need to be done. But when the reality hits and people are faced with making the sacrifice, then suddenly we have 100 reasons why we can't. People will get to the doctor, Frank. They will take busses or they will carpool or they will call their friends and family members or they will economize in other ways. We are all sloppy with our gasoline usage, because even at three bucks a gallon the price is for the bulk of us at most an annoyance. For cryin' out loud most people on the road are too bloody lazy to inflate their tires properly to save 5-10% on fuel, so it is hard for me to take the protests seriously.

                        Yes, of course what I suggest will cause hardship. That's exactly why I suggest it. It takes extreme circumstances to move this country to action. For example, everyone has heard of al quaida, right? How many heard of it before 9-11? Damn few. Yet they have been implicated in a series of terrorist activities all around the world including the US dating waaaaaay back! My point is that as long as problems don't rise above the "pimple on your derierre" level, Americans have a history of turning a blind eye.

                        Need evidence? Look at what happened in this country during the years when gasoline stabilized in the $2-2.50 range. People spent their car-buying dollars on giant SUVs and trucks (not talking work trucks, either)! The automakers thought that was a great idea and put their development money into reaping the profitability of those vehicles. When things turned sour and gas spiked up, demand faded and detroit hit tough times. Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda continued to do well with their hybrids and other high quality - high mileage vehicles. While foreign makers at least kept part of their focus on the future, the domestic guys did not and two of the big three nearly went under as sales crashed.

                        The cost of gasoline isn't going to keep anyone from looking for a job. We have busses and internet and phones. In most of Europe their motor fuel is approaching the equivalent of about $10 per gallon. They don't squeal like stuck pigs about it, nor do they blame all their woes on it. They look at us in the US as spoiled and in many ways they are right.

                        Residential solar panels are a wonderful notion but unless you can figure a way to get an array big enough onto your car, they aren't going to solve the energy problem or stimulate the economy. We need battery technology and other massive investment in infrastructure to make solar practical. Do you know that the manufacture of a current silicon photocell takes about the same energy that it will produce in its lifetime? That's what needs to be addressed - not governemtn subsidies to put them on your roof for cheap! But forget that... what is your electric bill? Here in CA we have the highest rates in the country and my highest bill this winter, including natural gas for space heating, cooking & water heating was a "whopping" $258. The average income is what?? My point is, it really just isn't that much, which is exactly why we haven't got a national energy program. We all should be hoping that the cost of energy goes sky high, so that people will pressure the government to wake up instead of fiddling around with HCR and gays in the military.

                        With all due respect, opening up the Federal oil reserve doesn't just sound insane, it is insane. We have proof through history that all that will happen is driving will increase, people will buy irresponsible vehicles, and then we won't have the oil reserve... which is there for the emergency which is probably coming. Then what happens? Price of gas goes right back up. Here's another idea. Take the reserve, sell it to China. Fund the National labs - probably the highest density of scientific genius in the world - to get to work on alternate energy. Ok, still a bad idea... but at least it works towards a solution.

                        Look, the average person is probably spending about $300 per month on gasoline. Yes if you're in business you spend way more for your truck or van and I'm sorry about that, but at least it's deductible. If you go out to lunch every day, like many people do, and drop $10, that's $220 a month right there. I know people that between their cable TV, movie channels, and pay per view spend $150 per month on TELEVISION. We all know people that drop $100 in bars every weekend, and cell phones bills cost what, $50-100? Decent tickets to an NFL football game are way more than $100 each, and who goes alone? People - and not just rich people - pay for iphones and Armani and drop $250k on remodeling their house with Italian marble floors and top-of-line everything. The difference is, we LIKE certain things and we happily pay for them, but we don't like it when the necessities of life get a little pricey. Aw, poor babies.

                        Americans like to complain. Economy's in the toilet, too much money going to the middle east, no jobs. But when the politicians dangle the prospect of dropping the price of gas a few pennies, that's a good thing and we all line up to cheer. Meanwhile, the country goes further down the road to ruin, pedal to the metal. If a politician proposed adding $5 in tax to the price of a gallon of gasoline and putting ALL of it toward a massive program to develop alternate energy, would you support that? I would, in a heartbeat. In the long term it would be one of the best investments we could make in our country and for our children. But no politician will do that because Americans want more of everything but less taxes... an interesting formula... but not real likely. The American public's desire for government freebies is a big reason why we have all the entitlements and other governement give-aways that drive the debt.

                        Frank, again with all due respect, you have been one that has asked repeatedly, "What are we going to do to get this country back on track?" Obama wasn't it any more than bailing out the banks was it, or trillion dollar stimulus packages was it or oil wars was it or health care "reform" was it or buying cheap crap from China was it. One answer to your question is, we are in desperate need of a national energy policy, and simple economics says that that won't happen as long as fossil fuels are dirt cheap. This is an entire new industry that will be a huge employer in and of itself, and will also give American industry a big advantage in the long run. Asking the question, "What can we do?" is good, but what is needed is the answer. Well, opening up the oil reserve and encouraging the country to continue to run on fossil fuel isn't it. If you want a cheap or painless answer... well I would like that too but I'm not hlding my breath.

                        BTW, $10 gasoline IS COMING. All domestic drilling, or for that matter using the Federal reserves, will do is forestall the inevitable, to the point where we will be too weak to do anything about it.

                        I dunno, man.... maybe doom really is inevitable because Americans may just not be willing to make the sacrifices it takes. Personally, I would take $100 a gallon gasoline, I would give up TV and cell phone and internet and fancy cars with leather seats and bult in navigators if it meant that my children and their children could have America back. I really think it's time to stop asking the questions, take our medicine and get humping on the solutions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Oil Drilling

                          Don't hold your breath waiting to burn Alaskan oil. It will be sold on the open market to the highest bidder and China and Japan are very thirsty. Shipping costs to the orient are equal or less than to the lower 48.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Oil Drilling

                            [QUOTE Andy

                            I dunno, man.... maybe doom really is inevitable because Americans may just not be willing to make the sacrifices it takes. Personally, I would take $100 a gallon gasoline, I would give up TV and cell phone and internet and fancy cars with leather seats and bult in navigators if it meant that my children and their children could have America back. I really think it's time to stop asking the questions, take our medicine and get humping on the solutions.[/QUOTE]

                            Andy, I suggested opening the reserves and dropping the price to $.50 a gallon as a very temporary thing. The economy is in the toilet, we have to get people driving more, working more and spending more. Cheaply produced here in the USA solar and wind alternatives would employ Americans and reduce fossil fuel consumption. By all means research, produce and use better battery technology in transportation which could be recharged by solar and wind. What do you think OPEC would do if we opened the reserves and dropped the price? Would they keep prices high and choke on all that oil?

                            I'm willing to sacrifice for future generations as well. Obama has not had the answers thus far and I don't know who will? Wheter we drop the price of gasoline and build factories, or raise the price to get people motivated, something needs to change and fast. Seems like the country in general is sitting on the fence and that gets us nowhere fast. In my opinion we either do something or wait for more of the same and the inevitable doom we keep dancing around.

                            Here on this Forum, we are saying what we think and thinking serious, important thought provoking ideas. I have a feeling that while many Americans have similar concerns, more people than not are still mindlessly tranquilizing themselves with other things. You and I may not agree on what to do, but we agree that something needs to be done.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Oil Drilling

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post

                              Andy, I suggested opening the reserves and dropping the price to $.50 a gallon as a very temporary thing. The economy is in the toilet, we have to get people driving more, working more and spending more. Cheaply produced here in the USA solar and wind alternatives would employ Americans and reduce fossil fuel consumption. By all means research, produce and use better battery technology in transportation which could be recharged by solar and wind. What do you think OPEC would do if we opened the reserves and dropped the price? Would they keep prices high and choke on all that oil?

                              I'm willing to sacrifice for future generations as well. Obama has not had the answers thus far and I don't know who will? Wheter we drop the price of gasoline and build factories, or raise the price to get people motivated, something needs to change and fast. Seems like the country in general is sitting on the fence and that gets us nowhere fast. In my opinion we either do something or wait for more of the same and the inevitable doom we keep dancing around.

                              Here on this Forum, we are saying what we think and thinking serious, important thought provoking ideas. I have a feeling that while many Americans have similar concerns, more people than not are still mindlessly tranquilizing themselves with other things. You and I may not agree on what to do, but we agree that something needs to be done.
                              Frank, I appreciate that you honestly want a good solution to this.

                              But please appreciate that we have a long history of short-sighted "right now" measures that have proven to be near totally ineffective in the short term, and completely worthless the long term. We just saw a trillion dollar stimulus package that didn't work, and before that we saw ineffective tax cuts by the Repubs that didn't work.

                              Roosevelt had his public work programs during the Great Depression, and they made for some great newsreels, but they had NO effect on the economy. It took WWII -- somewhat of a major inconvenience! -- to actually heal up the economy.

                              Oil drilling isn't going to work, any better than the WPA, the CCC, the Bush tax cuts or the Obama stimulus. How much money is it going to add to the economy? It will be peanuts. Even if you gave gasoline away as your temp measure suggestion, it would add, what $600 to every two-car household for a few months? It's effectively the same as another tax cut. If the trillion dollar stimulus didn't work, why would this work? Consumers will spend it on Chinese imported goods. How is that going to create American jobs?

                              We have to think out of the box. We have to look at things differently than we have. We need to focus on where we need to be, not just trickle down some money to the consumer. If it didn't work before it won't work now, and cheap oil sure hasn't worked. In fact, it plays to the OPECer's purpose... yet another oil fix for the addict. After a while the addict is so fried he becomes irrelevant. Is that where we want to be headed? I don't want a cheap oil fix.

                              "No pain - no gain". Are we down with a little pain? I'm not sure. Maybe the public is more than tranquilized as you say, maybe they are OD'd and their hearts have stopped.

                              Comment

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