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  • #16
    Re: Chinese Junk

    Originally posted by UnClogNH View Post
    I bought a weed eater gas trimmer died first season my yard with house on it is only .11 acre
    Then I bought an electric weed eater trimmer died with in one season too
    That's what I get I guess I did not want to buy a more expensive one because may yard is so small.
    Roundup.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Chinese Junk

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
      Roundup.

      J.C.
      I use that stuff too it works Roundup will kill all my grass that borders the foundation along the house and shed and wood fence
      Rod
      MT. Washington Sewer & Drain Cleaning
      Serving Berlin, NH and North Conway, NH areas
      http://unclognh.com
      http://mtwashingtonseweranddrainclea...m/default.aspx

      Charging less does not mean more call volume it just means you have to work harder to reach your goals.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Chinese Junk

        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
        Roundup.

        J.C.
        You might want to read how much it's been diluted from last year, could be cheaper to buy an expensive machine. I know it's a lot more fun to use a power tool Always think ahead, what if you get a bigger piece of property some day? Hope you didn't waste you money on a walk behind mower? Go for the riding tractor, it'll come in handy some day.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Chinese Junk

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          You might want to read how much it's been diluted from last year, could be cheaper to buy an expensive machine. I know it's a lot more fun to use a power tool Always think ahead, what if you get a bigger piece of property some day? Hope you didn't waste you money on a walk behind mower? Go for the riding tractor, it'll come in handy some day.
          I'm gonna' nickname you and tailgunner "Danny and Donnie Downer" if you keep finding the negative in the world.

          There ARE other brands with higher concentrations per dollar of the active ingredients in Roundup now.

          Bigger piece of property? I've got my eye on an AirStream.....

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Chinese Junk

            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
            I'm gonna' nickname you and tailgunner "Danny and Donnie Downer" if you keep finding the negative in the world.

            There ARE other brands with higher concentrations per dollar of the active ingredients in Roundup now.

            Bigger piece of property? I've got my eye on an AirStream.....

            J.C.
            J.C., I was just making an excuse for him to buy some big power tools. Hey, I have to shut down, smell an electrical burning of some kind? Could be my monitor, I've had it a good year now so it's probably on the way out.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Chinese Junk

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              J.C., I was just making an excuse for him to buy some big power tools. Hey, I have to shut down, smell an electrical burning of some kind? Could be my monitor, I've had it a good year now so it's probably on the way out.
              Maybe you can find an old Curtis Mathis TV to hook your computer too?

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Chinese Junk

                Some chinese food sounds really good right now.
                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Chinese Junk

                  I read a lot of complaints about so-called "Chinese Junk", but I have to tell you that there's also a lot of good quality products too and so much of the innovation in today's tools and other products are coming from China and many other countries.

                  Perhaps there's only a few of us on here that remember the 50's, 60's, and 70's and so much of the "junk" that we used to make. I've got a USA made 3/8-inch drill that pinches your finger everytime you pull it.

                  I had a 68' Plymouth, that had welding flash everywhere you looked and all the bright trim was just pressed aluminum that rattled as you drove. Yet compared to my 76' Mercury, it was a Rolls-Royce!

                  That Merc cost almost three times what the old Plymouth did and yet was missing body plugs, had loose fittings sitting on the block, and the driver's door panel had glue smears... and that was just what I noticed before I drove it off the dealer's lot. The vehicle was made in May and I bought it in June... by August the driver's door had rust HOLES around the door mirror and paint was literally blowing of the vent cowling. By the time the vehicle was two years old, the radiator and the gas tank had rusted out and had to be replaced. By the time it was seven years old, it was so rusted that there wasn't enough metal in the body to secure the shocks or even weld reinforcement too. I had to scrap it.

                  And during the "new" period, you couldn't operate the highbeam switch unless the emergency brake was on, because otherwise the loose cable flexed against the switch making it inoperable (there was no fix, other than disabling the parking brake.. which wouldn't hold the car anyway!) The visors were 'frozen' in place because the plastic shrunk in the heat and even the replacements froze within weeks of replacement. The airconditioning wouldn't work if the temperature was below 60-degrees (it wouldn't even switch on) and if it was over 90 you couldn't use it because it would immediately cause the engine to overheat. Drive the thing 75 miles in the summer and it would dump a quart or two of fluid in the driveway. The power steering pump went out and of the four that were listed on the fiche card (parts list), none would fit... my 76 Merc (purchased brand new from the Mercury dealer) just happened to have a power steering pump that came off a 74 Chevy Nova (No kidding, after my mechanic tried all four listed by Ford, he took my unit to the junk yard and "the match" came from a Nova. (As he stated, "I guess that explains why they have that big ugly mounting plate.) While that search went on, the car sat at the repair garage for over a month and I walked.

                  The seat back broke when the car was just three years old, I guess it couldn't support my 140 lb frame. You couldn't keep the car in alignment and it woud chew through a set of tires in 22,000 miles. The heater wouldn't work half the time and on one very cold winter day, we made the five-hour round trip to upstate medical with my six-year old wrapped up in blankets. I just had the car at the dealer's the week before to have the heater repaired for the second time, but it failed the night before the appointment. The whole car was just a total POS with poor quality in material, design, workmanship, and authorized service. To say the least, my next car was a Toyota!

                  I've had good ol' American made TV's that didn't last a year. American furniture that discolored and a very expensive Ethan Allen "American made" living room set that the fabric literally rotted off of because of exposure to sun light!

                  I've worked with in heavy industry for most of my life, and though I've seen some amazing product quality, I've also seen some things that really make you wonder. Sometimes it's been just lousy work by an occasional worker, but far too many times it's been de-engineering, rush to shipment, cut cost, get-it-out-the-door so we can "make the numbers". All too often it's a matter of "We don't want it good, we want it Tuesday!"

                  And as far as food is concerned, that's a real angry point with me. I'm sick of buying food that debut's with some form of quality and yet on the next purchase you make, you find breading instead of chicken, vegetables that look like they sat in the sun much too long and beverage's that are anything but what is advertised on the product label.

                  Recent cases: Tyson's Chicken Tenders... new improved with "minimal processing". Like is there any recognition of chicken whatsoever in that muck with all the air bubble holes in it?

                  Or how about Ocean Spray Cranberry "100% Juice". Well I guess it is, but it's about 90% cranberry-less.

                  Or the four 3-oz cans of BumbleBee "Chunk Light Tuna"... that was opened to discover a mince of nothing edible. Like a measured tablespoon of flavorless debris from the cutting bench and the rest just smelly water.

                  In the past decade, the quality of food has gone into the cellar and the mislabeling of food products goes beyond fraud. I'm sick of buying "carrot soap" that contains a tablespoon or two of what is labeled on the can. I'm sick of seeing beautiful product pictures that were taken in the photo studio, where only at that time did such a product ever exist. You see this gorgeous pie, or pizza, or burger, or whatever... and that's not what they give you. I don't want what's in the wrapping, I want the one that they show you the photo of!

                  So yeah, there's a bunch of really crappy stuff from China... but you know what? If our manufacturing and products were as perfect as many of you think they were, the Chinese or the Japanese or even the Germans would have never gotten their foot in the door.


                  CWS
                  Last edited by CWSmith; 04-15-2010, 12:39 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Chinese Junk

                    Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                    ... but you know what? If our manufacturing and products were as perfect as many of you think they were, the Chinese or the Japanese or even the Germans would have never gotten their foot in the door.

                    CWS
                    Nope.

                    Imports got (and continue to get) their foothold in the US and European markets because of a PRICE advantage, not a quality advantage. The Japanese were ridiculed as cheap junk for many years while bootstrapping themselves into a manufacturing power. Remember the popular remake of song "The Twelve Days of Christmas" featuring a Japanese transistor radio? Well that radio became Hitachi and Matsushita (Panasonic). The massive influx of cheap stuff established their distribution channels into these markets, and provided experience and revenue. "Phase One" of the plan, if you will.

                    The other key element is protectionism. In the case of the Japanese, they are famous for not allowing a level playing field. Their government agency MITI incubated and subsidized targeted industries. That's how they were able to etablish their dominance in consumer electronics, cameras and optics, machine tools, etc. The Chinese are protecting their growing industries as well.

                    The Asian business community in general adopts a much longer term view than the US or even Europeans. Their strategy is to continually improve their products, build market share, weaken or even "help" others go out of business, and then raise prices. Again, look at the Japanese. Their goods generally command a premium price. It's not by accident.

                    The pattern is the same with China. They get into the market based on price, and then they will inevitably increase their quality, along with their prices, in similar fashion to the Japanese. Today they make a LOT of abysmal garbage, but they also make the computer in front of you and your cell phone and dozens of other good items.

                    Doesn't mean we should support them.

                    I too have some experience with industry. And I can tell you that the quality products they produce today are driven by US engineering. You can believe what you want but I have dealt with these people firsthand and the bottom line is, they are still just not very good. We are teaching them everything they know. Left to their own devices, as is the case with the low quality stuff, they rely on their cottage industry - people casting and machining parts in a shed behind their home - with little to no quality control, no engineering, etc. And most of that stuff is truly garbage.

                    They will improve. They have the best teachers in the world.

                    But none of this is really the issue. Yes you can buy quality Chinese products. And if you are so inclined, knock yourself out. For me the issue is that the balance of trade is a serious economic problem in the US that is rapidly going to become a fatal problem. Every dollar that goes overseas leaves our troubled economy for good and isn't taxed by our strapped government.

                    Not so good.

                    Buy American. The PRICE is higher, but the COST in the long run is much lower.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Chinese Junk

                      Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                      Nope.

                      Imports got (and continue to get) their foothold in the US and European markets because of a PRICE advantage, not a quality advantage. The Japanese were ridiculed as cheap junk for many years while bootstrapping themselves into a manufacturing power. Remember the popular remake of song "The Twelve Days of Christmas" featuring a Japanese transistor radio? Well that radio became Hitachi and Matsushita (Panasonic). The massive influx of cheap stuff established their distribution channels into these markets, and provided experience and revenue. "Phase One" of the plan, if you will.

                      The other key element is protectionism. In the case of the Japanese, they are famous for not allowing a level playing field. Their government agency MITI incubated and subsidized targeted industries. That's how they were able to etablish their dominance in consumer electronics, cameras and optics, machine tools, etc. The Chinese are protecting their growing industries as well.

                      The Asian business community in general adopts a much longer term view than the US or even Europeans. Their strategy is to continually improve their products, build market share, weaken or even "help" others go out of business, and then raise prices. Again, look at the Japanese. Their goods generally command a premium price. It's not by accident.

                      The pattern is the same with China. They get into the market based on price, and then they will inevitably increase their quality, along with their prices, in similar fashion to the Japanese. Today they make a LOT of abysmal garbage, but they also make the computer in front of you and your cell phone and dozens of other good items.

                      Doesn't mean we should support them.

                      I too have some experience with industry. And I can tell you that the quality products they produce today are driven by US engineering. You can believe what you want but I have dealt with these people firsthand and the bottom line is, they are still just not very good. We are teaching them everything they know. Left to their own devices, as is the case with the low quality stuff, they rely on their cottage industry - people casting and machining parts in a shed behind their home - with little to no quality control, no engineering, etc. And most of that stuff is truly garbage.

                      They will improve. They have the best teachers in the world.

                      But none of this is really the issue. Yes you can buy quality Chinese products. And if you are so inclined, knock yourself out. For me the issue is that the balance of trade is a serious economic problem in the US that is rapidly going to become a fatal problem. Every dollar that goes overseas leaves our troubled economy for good and isn't taxed by our strapped government.

                      Not so good.

                      Buy American. The PRICE is higher, but the COST in the long run is much lower.
                      That was a great post Andy. You touched on a lot of things that disturb me regarding fair trade. In order to buy American, we need to make American and unless there are incentive to manufacture here and penalties to discourage imports, what are the chances of that happening? Can it be too late to turn things around?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Chinese Junk

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        That was a great post Andy. You touched on a lot of things that disturb me regarding fair trade. In order to buy American, we need to make American and unless there are incentive to manufacture here and penalties to discourage imports, what are the chances of that happening? Can it be too late to turn things around?
                        It might be too late, but only because there is not even a hint of the start of movement in the right direction.

                        Even with proper incentivization, the rebuilding of US manufacturing will take years. This is not going to get sympathy from the money lobbies, since they are *always* looking for results at the end of the quarter.

                        Government is not afraid to spend, but they will only spend on the items that suit their agenda - not yours. Hence, We The People get oil wars (unpopular), bank bailouts (unpopular), health care reform (unpopular), and ineffective stimulus package (popular with those that like handouts but widely unpopular with economists and the general thinking public). To really start the long trek toward rebuilding industry, we will need Government to focus on AMERICAN jobs and industry, and provide some serious assistance in the form of:

                        (1) a national energy policy, funded to several *hundred* billion per year
                        (2) a real effort to force a level playing field in Japan and China especially (we need to export to these countries)
                        (3) application of serious taxes consequences to all US companies that outsource - including not only manufacturing but also design, software development, customer support... everything.
                        (4) application of OSHA, EPA, FDA regulations to all foreign facilities importing goods to the United States - with US on site inspectors, paid for by the foreign manufacturer
                        (5) *much* stricter State Department regulations regarding export of US technology
                        (6) Strong subsidies for development of modernized factories. with a central agency devoted to standardization - akin to the Mil Spec system, which was instrumental in providing the most successful war machine in history.
                        (7) More subsidies for US science and technology students

                        et cetera. You get the point.

                        This won't happen because none of it is supported by the world financial community (strongly represented at the Federal Reserve) or by corporate America. Both of them are interested exclusively in milking you dry. Don't think so? Where are the financial industry regulations that Paulsen/Geithner and Bernanke promised us 18 months ago?

                        Obama isn't going to do it. McCain wouldn't have done it, either. Neither one of them has the stones. I don't think anyone in DC does. But if someone DID, the biggest problem they would face is that Americans don't want to hear the truth. They haven't been told the truth about the economy or entitlements or China, and most wouldn't want to hear it anyway. Americans don't understand that success is not our birthright. We are in a war for our economic survival. Well, we would be... but we seem to be too busy sitting on the couch watching "Idol" on our imported flat screen TVs.

                        What's most interesting is that the Government itself is well down the path to going out of business. Cutting spending is a good thing, but if you study the budget for even ten minutes it becomes clear that we are long past the point where we can solve the Federal debt issue with spending restraint. The ONLY solution is massive economic expansion and the related increase in the tax revenue base. The government needs more money, plain and simple.

                        We are in fact getting massive economic expansion, funded by the American consumer's dollars. Unfortunately, it's in China.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Chinese Junk

                          I'll apologize in advance to those who like things made in communist china, but I can't help but think we are sunk at times. Just today I was using a tank sprayer I fixed last season with a kit from Home Depot. Plastic spray handle had a plastic cap that housed a spring for the trigger action. Fifteen bucks and one season later the plastic cap literally tore apart at the top. I could not find anything to fit, so I used a soldering iron to melt the pieces together. It's holding, but my point is that our money is being lost a little at a time , here and there as we repeatedly buy this junk. Chinese manufacturing of goods to the American consumer has taken planned obsolescence to another level.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Chinese Junk

                            How is it that a four piece combo kit of any of the "top" power tool manufacturers was $399 in 2003, $399 in 2007, and still $399 in 2011, even though the dollar has lost so much value?

                            Quality is clearly being sacrificed in order to decrease sales as little as possible (when comparing the current economy against a decade earlier).

                            If Americans could finally all realize that we are being conned by corporate crooks and stop supporting big businesses, this country could get back on track. That will not happen though, because we are all kept distracted by flat screen tvs...and don't forget those $399 combo kits.

                            Of course the REAL SOLUTION is to force the wealthy to contribute more, but when they're at the receving end of the $399 (and all the other unnecessary purchases we all make), they can make huge contributions their hired politicians. In most other countries that would be a crime. In the US it is protocol. The Dem's tried to fix it with the Campaign Finance Bill, the Rep's voted it down.

                            Don't worry though. The Fall of Rome was actually a 500 year decline. We're probably somewhere around year 50. It's all good. Go buy a combo kit.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Chinese Junk

                              Originally posted by A.T. View Post
                              How is it that a four piece combo kit of any of the "top" power tool manufacturers was $399 in 2003, $399 in 2007, and still $399 in 2011, even though the dollar has lost so much value?

                              Quality is clearly being sacrificed in order to decrease sales as little as possible (when comparing the current economy against a decade earlier).

                              If Americans could finally all realize that we are being conned by corporate crooks and stop supporting big businesses, this country could get back on track. That will not happen though, because we are all kept distracted by flat screen tvs...and don't forget those $399 combo kits.

                              Of course the REAL SOLUTION is to force the wealthy to contribute more, but when they're at the receving end of the $399 (and all the other unnecessary purchases we all make), they can make huge contributions their hired politicians. In most other countries that would be a crime. In the US it is protocol. The Dem's tried to fix it with the Campaign Finance Bill, the Rep's voted it down.

                              Don't worry though. The Fall of Rome was actually a 500 year decline. We're probably somewhere around year 50. It's all good. Go buy a combo kit.
                              I don't think we really understand how serious this problemis beyond the obvious as consumers. I do some of my car repairs, repairs around the house including appliances and other things my wife and daughters purchase and have break. Across the board it seems that everything is poorly made. I recently bought a KitchenAid mixer for the family (I cook too!) and in reading reviews I found out they had many recalls until they returned to making the gears out of metal. Imagine plastic gears to drive a $300 plus kitchen appliance? Aside from our obvious consumer outrage is the very real economic aspect of having to buy this junk and having to buy it over and over again.

                              We need better products, we need to make them here and we will need to pay a lot more for them. The upside will be less unemployment, cost savings in the long run because products will last longer and more American dollars staying in our American economy.
                              Unfortunately, I'm positive we will not see any of this happen voluntarily on the part of business. So where does that leave us? How can we possibly have a bright future and return to prosperity and pride in things we actually make?

                              I know many tradesmen here take great pride and satisfaction in the work they do, all Americans willing to work should feel the same. I'm sad for the millions who had done a good job whatever their work was, only to find themselves unemployed through no fault of their own.
                              Last edited by Frankiarmz; 06-12-2011, 10:01 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Chinese Junk

                                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post

                                We need better products, we need to make them here and we will need to pay a lot more for them.
                                No we don't. We need to harness the waste that unions bring into the mix. That would go along way towards becoming competitive in a global market.

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