Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Chinese Junk Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Re: Chinese Junk

    Interesting. Although as usual the Stewart show replaces most of the real information with idiocy.

    This does point out that decisions to manufacture abroad v. domestically are not overwhelming slam dunks. The difference in manufacturing cost when a product is offshored to Asia is far, far less than most people believe. They look at $1 per hour for an Asian worker v. $24 in the US and decide that there is no way the US can compete. However, the labor content of most products, made in highly automated factories, is very small. The US worker is better educated, and generally more productive. Thus the impact of the wages is small. So why do companies offshore their production? Because even a few percent at the cost line is a lot of money, and it's a very competitive world.

    When Gov't says, "Everyone must do Sarbannes-Oxley" and "Here's 6000 pages of Obamacare" and the myriad other insane regulations they impose, that's enough to drive business out.

    Washington doesn't get it. They think that all this is free. Then they stand in wide-eyed amazement as unemployment climbs. Government is the problem, not the US worker and not the US business.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Chinese Junk

      Andy, even if the American worker was not better educated I don't think we can sustain an economy that forces us to purchase foreign made goods. Our government at every level needs the tax revenue from American based businesses, and we the people need the jobs. Our wealth needs to stay more in circulation here than leave never to return. The tunnel vision to demonize unions, misses all of the above. Can anyone envision the USA if unemployment keeps rising, if the American worker is continually forced to give concessions and work for less? Our society will mirror that of the third world, rampant poverty, slums bursting at the seems and widespread illiteracy. We are taking steps backwards by not growing our economy. Our legislators have no plan beyond breaking the unions, cutting benefits and raising taxes. Sure those things will offer temporary relief, but unless businesses and jobs return they will be revisited on a regular basis.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Chinese Junk

        Frank, of course I agree with you that the current path of 40 years of trade imbalance is unsustainable. Of course, as we've seen right here on this forum, there are those that just don't seem to understand that sending our wealth overseas to buy inexpensive consumer goods is not only a losing proposition, it is a huge cause of the problems we face today of unemployment, stagnant economy, low interest rates, and the devalued dollar. If we continuously spend more on foreign goods than we earn by exporting US made goods, s, it doesn't take Einstein to see that our national wealth will decline and eventually the tank will run dry. US policies of borrow and print make no sense at all. Yet amazingly, US consumers *still* flock to WalMart (and Harbor Freight). Well, I guess this is still the land of the Free, even if the Free prefer to keep their head in the sand about how much that cheap stuff is *really* costing us.

        As for unions, I know you are an ardent supporter. I am not convinced that they continue to serve a viable purpose. While I don't blame unions, we do have to realize that concessons to labor unions played a significant role in the bankruptcy of GM and the continuing problems with Chrysler and other industries. I'll stand at the head of the line to blame mismanagement, poor planning, worse product selection, etc. But it's hard to deny that if a company is looking at offshoring, the prospect of dealing with Union demands is a definite push in that direction.

        Foreign auto makers (several of them) at this point have plants in the United States. These range from very elaborate plants to vehicle final assembly. I believe that none, or possibly one, is unionized. They could be. The employees don't want the unions.

        Many other types of work, including my line of work, are not unionized. The market sets wages and benefits. In a strong economy, business has to compete for workers and thus they offer higher salaries, better benefits, perks and more vacation time. In slow times, like we have now, wages dip (in my field they're down 30-50%), bennies are cut back and if you have a job you're gonna have to put in a lot of free overtime. Is this bad? Sure, it sucks being on the wrong end of that. Will a union help? In many cases, I don't think so. They'll just cause companies to take their jobs elsewhere. Companies have options today that they didn't have when Unions were strong. It *is* a different world today.

        The best solution all around is a strong, growing economy. That means an economy that is based on production rather than our current economy that is 70% based on consumption. Want to protect workers? You don't need unions. You need to make workers a valuable asset that employers have to compete for. Free market principles work, and always have - if they are allowed to without manipulation.

        It also means small government. Current Gov't is a parasite that costs $3.5T of a $14T economy, and contributes nothing to the goods and services pool other than meddling. As I see it, the essential functions of Gov't (defense and other basic responsibilities as delineated in the Constitution) could be handled with 40%-50% less spending. This would leave $1.4 to $1.8T in the economy... not as a one time, idiotic stimulus package, but every single year. The numbskulls in DC fight about budget cuts every day. Of course they don't want to make cuts to Gov't. But unless they wake up, this economy is in trouble because we simply can't afford the crushing cost of the Federal Government.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Chinese Junk

          QUOTE=Andy_M;351234]Frank, of course I agree with you that the current path of 40 years of trade imbalance is unsustainable. Of course, as we've seen right here on this forum, there are those that just don't seem to understand that sending our wealth overseas to buy inexpensive consumer goods is not only a losing proposition, it is a huge cause of the problems we face today of unemployment, stagnant economy, low interest rates, and the devalued dollar. If we continuously spend more on foreign goods than we earn by exporting US made goods, s, it doesn't take Einstein to see that our national wealth will decline and eventually the tank will run dry. US policies of borrow and print make no sense at all. Yet amazingly, US consumers *still* flock to WalMart (and Harbor Freight). Well, I guess this is still the land of the Free, even if the Free prefer to keep their head in the sand about how much that cheap stuff is *really* costing us.

          As for unions, I know you are an ardent supporter. I am not convinced that they continue to serve a viable purpose. While I don't blame unions, we do have to realize that concessons to labor unions played a significant role in the bankruptcy of GM and the continuing problems with Chrysler and other industries. I'll stand at the head of the line to blame mismanagement, poor planning, worse product selection, etc. But it's hard to deny that if a company is looking at offshoring, the prospect of dealing with Union demands is a definite push in that direction.

          Foreign auto makers (several of them) at this point have plants in the United States. These range from very elaborate plants to vehicle final assembly. I believe that none, or possibly one, is unionized. They could be. The employees don't want the unions.

          Many other types of work, including my line of work, are not unionized. The market sets wages and benefits. In a strong economy, business has to compete for workers and thus they offer higher salaries, better benefits, perks and more vacation time. In slow times, like we have now, wages dip (in my field they're down 30-50%), bennies are cut back and if you have a job you're gonna have to put in a lot of free overtime. Is this bad? Sure, it sucks being on the wrong end of that. Will a union help? In many cases, I don't think so. They'll just cause companies to take their jobs elsewhere. Companies have options today that they didn't have when Unions were strong. It *is* a different world today.

          The best solution all around is a strong, growing economy. That means an economy that is based on production rather than our current economy that is 70% based on consumption. Want to protect workers? You don't need unions. You need to make workers a valuable asset that employers have to compete for. Free market principles work, and always have - if they are allowed to without manipulation.

          It also means small government. Current Gov't is a parasite that costs $3.5T of a $14T economy, and contributes nothing to the goods and services pool other than meddling. As I see it, the essential functions of Gov't (defense and other basic responsibilities as delineated in the Constitution) could be handled with 40%-50% less spending. This would leave $1.4 to $1.8T in the economy... not as a one time, idiotic stimulus package, but every single year. The numbskulls in DC fight about budget cuts every day. Of course they don't want to make cuts to Gov't. But unless they wake up, this economy is in trouble because we simply can't afford the crushing cost of the Federal Government.[/QUOTE]

          " Free market principles work, and always have - if they are allowed to without manipulation". Andy, I'll grant you that unions overstepped their usefulness by pushing for and being granted wages and benefits that could not realistically be met. I strongly disagree with the line I quoted,because there is no such thing as free markets without manipulation. We must face the facts that foreign markets set import limits and tariffs on our goods then threaten us if we suggest doing the same. I remember reading a little blurb about President Bush planning to use those tools to help our steel industry and the response from the global bullies was strong enough to have him back down. The deck is stacked against us even if you remove taxes on businesses, unions and cut wages to the bone. You still have a country here that enforces environmental and worker safety. I think if there is a slim chance of saving our economy it lies in legislation to both reward businesses that return with incentives and punish with trade limites and heavy tariffs those that don't . We don't need government funded high speed rail jobs. Let the government invest in private business willing to build manufacturing with whatever tools available. Sadly, I don't hold much if any hope that our legislators will do anything different or substantial beyond what they have done so far. Considering the current rate of decline, how much time do we have?

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Chinese Junk

            Frank, I will stand by my comments that the free market works. Other nations certainly do violate free market principles to try to gain the upper hand. The pigeons generally come home to roost. One lesson we should have learned from the 1930s is that domestic means of production are the key to getting out of a depression. The Chinese know this. The Soviets didn't learn it in time. We used to believe this but apparently have forgotten it.

            The basis of all economics, whether Austrian, Keynesian or whatever... is the law of supply and demand. In a free market, where the curves cross determines the price of items. The system doesn't work when anyone mucks with it or manipulates it. A great example is the former Soviet Union. In their system, central planners had to "set" the price of goods. All the goods! There are of course tens of thousands of items to price, and they had no way to get it right. No surprise, they didn't get it right. As a result, there were massive shortages of many items, massive surpluses of others (many of which spoiled since they sat on the shelf too long) and almost none that were close to correct! That's what you get when you take manipulation of the free market to the extreme.

            You are right in saying that markets are manipulated. Look what that has gotten us. In the day, the US Gov't enforced antitrust, anti-cartel and other laws aimed strictly at preventing distortions of the free market. Nothing is perfect, but in general it worked well, the US prospered and we were the leading industrial producer, ran a positive trade balance, AND had the highest wages and standard of living in the world. Today, manipulation of markets by companies runs rampant. Banks are too big to fail. What's worse, the Government, via the Federal Reserve, overtly manipulates the money supply, props up banks and other financial institutions, buys and sells securities (which affects your money) which you AND the Federal Gov't are not privy to and controls interest rates. Yes there are no perfect free markets. The further away you get though, the worse things become.

            Ironically, the Chinese sit in wry amusement and are convinced that Americans are the stupidest people on earth, since we not only have allowed the Federal Government to become dependant on them, sold off our industry for pennies on the dollar, but most of all because faced with economic crisis, we still continue down the same exact path. We not only make it easy for them to kick our collective butt, we provide funding and teach them the technology they need to do it. And the American consumer continues to buy imported stuff even while we have 14+ million unemployed. Many of the unemployment insurance dollars paid for out of your taxes are going to China. And still many Americans think that's all a-ok.

            Finally, be aware that in many Asian countries - notably Japan - the consumer market strongly prefers to buy their own domestic production. Asians are nothing if not pragmatic. While US consumers prefer to be enlightened towards the global economy, Asians largely prefer to support their own.

            I agree that we don't need high speed rail. We also don't need Obamacare, a space program (not now, anyway), or a $670B annual defense budget. In fact, what we desperately need is for Gov't get out of the way. We will never have a truly free market, but in the US we are moving ever farther from it, while our competitors are moving closer to it. Who's on a growth curve and who's on the decline?

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Chinese Junk

              good morning andy.

              first let me say that yes i do shop at both wal-mart and harbor freight, please let me explain what it is that i get at these places and why i chosse them over other store in my area.

              first one will be harbor freight since i was just there 4 days ago. i in my spare time repair cars trucks and the 37 ford rat rod in my advtar is something i build for fun, back on track now. i just bought two 13 drawer tool boxes (both are the lowwer box) for $600 for both not each that is only $300 each. this now gives my 6 of these in total with 3 top chests and 5 side cabinets and 1 locker all for about $ 26-2800 dollars. these boxes are much better built and less than 1/3 the price of craftsman boxes. no they are not better than snap on mac matco or cornwell but for ha has i will let you look up those prices but be warned for a twin bank box they are going to start in the 3-4 thousand dollar range. hummmm wonder why i went there. it has nothing to do with where they were made, it was the quaity and price that won. if the craftsman boxes were better i would have bought them if mac or snap on or the others were in my price range i would have gotten them. i have snap on and mac and craftsman and kolbat sk stanley and yes even some harbor frieght tools in these boxes.

              now on to wal mart. the one here in this town sells food as well. i buy my canned goods, paper products, drinks, and once and a while chips from there. i also buy my sock under wear and work jeans from there as the pices can not be beat one this items, the rest of my food i get form food city, clothing either the mall, army navy store, and the berlington coat factory.

              i buy things that fit my needs well and at a good price. not because it was made here or there. during the 80s evrything that is being said about the chinese now was being said about the japs then.


              but for the record i do buy my chinese food here in america......

              have a great day and i really hope you understand my points that i have tried to make.
              Last edited by oldslowchevy; 07-11-2011, 09:07 AM. Reason: because i can
              9/11/01, never forget.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Chinese Junk

                Oldslowchevy, thanks for your post.

                I do very much get your points, and understand the motivation to get the best deal on everything that we buy. And I agree, btw, that the Craftsman boxes have become light guage junk. I wouldn't have one. I have SnapOn from when I owned a shop, and the truth is that you buy SnapOn once and it will last in a demanding environment. Is it realistic to spend $5k for a SnapOn, MAC or MATCO rollaway for home use? No, I don't think so. But for a professional mechanic (my business was engine building) yes, they are worth it because other brands will fall apart.

                But here's the thing that I want to get across. There is a reason that we have 14+ milion unemployed and the economy is in the toilet. There is a reason why Geithner just said that we were facing years more of hard times. There is a reason why zero percent Federal Reserve rates and trilion dollar stimulus packages haven't gotten the US economy rolling again.

                The reason is, we have been importing more - far, far more - than we export. For FORTY consecutive years. Now, it's clear that if you send more money out of the country than you take in, eventually the tank will run dry. We're all feeling the bite. But it's even worse than that. We aren't simply losing money. We have lost our industrial base. At this point, since consumer goods are basically not manufactured in the United States, we can't reverse the trade imbalance. We can't stop the bleeding.

                If we had a near zero trade balance, none of this would be an issue. Imports would compete with domestic production, all to the benefit of the consumer. But that's not the deal. It's so skewed that we are not competing - we are being driven out of business as an industrial nation.

                China in particular is working very hard to put us out of business. They hold their currency very low compared to the dollar, to the point where we pay far less than any other country for Chinese products. Why do they do this? Is it because they want you to have a good deal? No. They want to drive US industry out of business. It's not exactly a unique or new strategy. Once our industry is gone, we are no longer a competitive threat. Their currency games are well-known, but because they loan the Federal Government so much money, our "leaders" are afraid to anger China. Imagine that. The United States is afraid of China because we need their economic support. The world has truy gone mad. And it all comes back to trade balance.

                The real cost of the imported stuff is much higher than the price on the invoice. THe economy was stumbling long before the 2008 crisis. And it will not revive as long we we continue to bleed money. Thi isn't a theoretical problem. We are hurting, and our kids and grandkids will be hurting much much worse. Remember that the Soviet Union did not suddenly have a change of heart about ideological philosophy. They were esentialy driven out of business. Today, we are being driven out of business by other countries, notably China. They watched and learned that economics was a far better path to dominance than warfare.

                I hope this makes some sense to you. And I hope that you will at least give some thought to the real cost of the imported items you buy, as opposed to the pricetag. Of course we all have to buy imports. It's unrealistic to think otherwise. But when the vast majority of everything we buy is imported, that is economic armageddon. And that's where we are going today.
                Last edited by Andy_M; 07-11-2011, 01:22 PM.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Chinese Junk

                  Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                  Frank, I will stand by my comments that the free market works. Other nations certainly do violate free market principles to try to gain the upper hand. The pigeons generally come home to roost. One lesson we should have learned from the 1930s is that domestic means of production are the key to getting out of a depression. The Chinese know this. The Soviets didn't learn it in time. We used to believe this but apparently have forgotten it.

                  The basis of all economics, whether Austrian, Keynesian or whatever... is the law of supply and demand. In a free market, where the curves cross determines the price of items. The system doesn't work when anyone mucks with it or manipulates it. A great example is the former Soviet Union. In their system, central planners had to "set" the price of goods. All the goods! There are of course tens of thousands of items to price, and they had no way to get it right. No surprise, they didn't get it right. As a result, there were massive shortages of many items, massive surpluses of others (many of which spoiled since they sat on the shelf too long) and almost none that were close to correct! That's what you get when you take manipulation of the free market to the extreme.

                  You are right in saying that markets are manipulated. Look what that has gotten us. In the day, the US Gov't enforced antitrust, anti-cartel and other laws aimed strictly at preventing distortions of the free market. Nothing is perfect, but in general it worked well, the US prospered and we were the leading industrial producer, ran a positive trade balance, AND had the highest wages and standard of living in the world. Today, manipulation of markets by companies runs rampant. Banks are too big to fail. What's worse, the Government, via the Federal Reserve, overtly manipulates the money supply, props up banks and other financial institutions, buys and sells securities (which affects your money) which you AND the Federal Gov't are not privy to and controls interest rates. Yes there are no perfect free markets. The further away you get though, the worse things become.

                  Ironically, the Chinese sit in wry amusement and are convinced that Americans are the stupidest people on earth, since we not only have allowed the Federal Government to become dependant on them, sold off our industry for pennies on the dollar, but most of all because faced with economic crisis, we still continue down the same exact path. We not only make it easy for them to kick our collective butt, we provide funding and teach them the technology they need to do it. And the American consumer continues to buy imported stuff even while we have 14+ million unemployed. Many of the unemployment insurance dollars paid for out of your taxes are going to China. And still many Americans think that's all a-ok.

                  Finally, be aware that in many Asian countries - notably Japan - the consumer market strongly prefers to buy their own domestic production. Asians are nothing if not pragmatic. While US consumers prefer to be enlightened towards the global economy, Asians largely prefer to support their own.

                  I agree that we don't need high speed rail. We also don't need Obamacare, a space program (not now, anyway), or a $670B annual defense budget. In fact, what we desperately need is for Gov't get out of the way. We will never have a truly free market, but in the US we are moving ever farther from it, while our competitors are moving closer to it. Who's on a growth curve and who's on the decline?
                  Andy, considering the way things are and not how we would want them to be, is it a matter of time until we experience a collapse? I personally don't see how it can be avoided.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Chinese Junk

                    wages dip (in my field they're down 30-50%), bennies are cut back and if you have a job you're gonna have to put in a lot of free overtime.
                    Why would you give your labor away? If you are taking a 30 to 50% cut, is the so called "free" OT included in that on on top of it?
                    If its in addition to the 30 to 50% cut, then what you have is actually something more like a 40 to 60% cut, depending on how low you value your services and consequently how much your time you give away. And that is not a union/non-union issue, it's strictly about what your time is worth to you and to them.

                    I don't see the oil companies charging 30 to 50% less for gas, same goes for any other item you or I might purchase. They may have held prices down (not increased any more than they absolutely had to, but that is only to keep their share of the market. They may claim that profits are down 20 or 30% (or more) from last year, but that is probably more about how the numbers are crunched than about a pure profit comparison. Profits being down from 'projected' earnings means they didn't make as much as they wanted to, well join the crowd because YOU didn't either right? you worked for 30 to 50% LESS than you wanted to. Difference is theirs is based on projected earnings; some bean counters pipe dream or some calculated sales figure that they should have been able to make; yours is based on a comparison to last years earnings.
                    ---------------
                    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                    ---------------
                    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                    ---------
                    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                    ---------
                    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Chinese Junk

                      Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                      Why would you give your labor away? If you are taking a 30 to 50% cut, is the so called "free" OT included in that on on top of it?
                      If its in addition to the 30 to 50% cut, then what you have is actually something more like a 40 to 60% cut, depending on how low you value your services and consequently how much your time you give away. And that is not a union/non-union issue, it's strictly about what your time is worth to you and to them.

                      I don't see the oil companies charging 30 to 50% less for gas, same goes for any other item you or I might purchase. They may have held prices down (not increased any more than they absolutely had to, but that is only to keep their share of the market. They may claim that profits are down 20 or 30% (or more) from last year, but that is probably more about how the numbers are crunched than about a pure profit comparison. Profits being down from 'projected' earnings means they didn't make as much as they wanted to, well join the crowd because YOU didn't either right? you worked for 30 to 50% LESS than you wanted to. Difference is theirs is based on projected earnings; some bean counters pipe dream or some calculated sales figure that they should have been able to make; yours is based on a comparison to last years earnings.

                      Salaried occupations are what is called "exempt" positions. That means, exempt from labor law, as in "it does not apply". You get a salary, you don't get an hourly wage. You don't generally get paid overtime. You are free to come and go as you wish, but your work had better be getting done to the schedule. If it takes 65 hours, that's your problem - you're salaried.

                      During tough times, Companies cut back on people, especially relatively highly paid technical people, because people are very expensive. But the amount of work frequently doesn't decrease. In fact, in engineering, if anything, it increases because Companies need new products to boost their flagging numbers. Same or more work+ fewer people = lots of overtime.

                      So why would anyone give their labor away? There's a very simple reason. Stated unemployment in Silicon Valley is 12.4%. If you include all the very talented engineers that have fallen off the unemployment insurance bandwagon, and toss in those that are working at home depot or tending bar for tips, the estimates are 20-22%.

                      So unless you want to be one of the 22%, you take the crappy salary and forget about Saturdays and dinner with the family. Because for every four engineers that have a job, there is a fifth guy waiting to take your job. You know it and the the Company knows it. And that's why we take the low pay and put in the extra hours.

                      Welcome to my world. It's actually ok with me. That's how the free market is supposed to work. When times were good, I was getting three calls a week from headhunters, and consulting was paying $150/hr. Companies were giving double-digit raises and fat bonuses to keep folks from going down the block to the next firm.

                      You take the good with the bad. This time, though, it's been bad for quite a long time.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Chinese Junk

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        Andy, considering the way things are and not how we would want them to be, is it a matter of time until we experience a collapse? I personally don't see how it can be avoided.
                        I am not sure I see a collapse although I wouldn't bet against it.

                        What I see as more likely is more of the same we're seeing now... namely, the economy sinking lower and lower, people having more and more problems finding work, and the dollar steadily losing value as a result of government inflationary policies such as QE (which I think we will see more of within 12 months, despite Bernanke's words) and artificially low interest rates.

                        It is clear to me that between having sold off our industrial base, built a spend-happy bloated Government, China's increasing political influence with the US, and the global banks manipulating currency to our detriment and their advantage.... the situation is bleak.

                        I apologize to everyone for being a broken record on these topics. I love my kids and fear for their future. I also have deep respect for the many that built this Country, that supported it and defended it. Seems tragic to me that it's slipping away, and for no good reason.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Chinese Junk

                          Andy, I share many of your thoughts and while I look for positive signs of change they are just not there! I want folks who want to work and provide for themselves and their familes to have that opportunity, I want my daughters one of whom graduated college to find employment.
                          I just keep watching and reading news about the same washington behavior that offers no results. There must be a breaking point of some kind, a time when so many jobs are lost, homes foreclosed that the system fails to keep working. The President said today that the public doesn't understand the situation like the professional politicians do. I disagree and believe that from our vantage point we see more clearly.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Chinese Junk

                            Originally posted by TheMaster
                            Here is some good Chinese junk. I bought one and love it.

                            First-Up 10' x 10' Gazebo / Event Tent - Walmart.com
                            Don't know how many seasons you have had it but I bet it is not built to last. That's one of my big complaints with this garbage, we spend what we think is a bargain but we have to repurchase over and over again! I remember when I used to go camping years ago, the tent was built to last for years with proper care. How long can we keep buying the same things over and over until we realize what they eventually cost? The construction and materials are usually so flimsy they break in no time.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Chinese Junk

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              The President said today that the public doesn't understand the situation like the professional politicians do. I disagree and believe that from our vantage point we see more clearly.
                              With few exceptions, Washington still believes in Keynesian economics, even though Keynesian moves haven't worked at all for several years now. F.A. Hayak, the antithesis of Keynes, referred to the Keynesian notion of central planning as " the fatal conceit". This sums it all up beautifully. Those arrogant fools.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Chinese Junk

                                You guys need to go watch Milton Friedman on Youtube.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X