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Another Eco Disaster

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  • #16
    Re: Another Eco Disaster

    A couple of years ago there was a ongoing debate in my local Newspaper about global warming. Seemed the liberals were convinced it was real and the conservatives were convinced of the opposite. I still don't know about global warming, but I am pretty sure man's using the world as a huge toilet bowl is a big mistake. Sure nature through volcanos and other disasters makes a hell of a mess, but can that compare to the chemicals, toxins and pollutants we serve up?

    When I depended on well water for my drinking water I was real careful about what got dumped on my property, now that I have city water I'm not as careful and that might be a mistake. I know for a fact that many wells were rendered unsafe due to the additive that was used in gasoline a few years ago.

    My bottom line is we are using the earth's air, water and land as if it's some kind of science experiment. The problem with that is if we fail at the experiment and end up causing serious damage is there any going back? Can the earth really overcome all our abuse?

    Whether you believe our planet was part of a big bang or a gift from God, show it a little more respect. I may not agree with everything Tony says, but if these so called accidents can be avoided by better behaviors, what's the problem? Do any of you really think it's good to dump millions of gallons of oil into the sea? I think it's just another excuse to raise the price of gasoline and heating fuel. They screw up and we continue to pay for it!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Another Eco Disaster

      AFM, you ok under all those teabags?

      The earth will be fine. We won't.

      Lenny

      Pronounced A-Bear Drain Care

      I know, it doesn't make sense.


      http://www.hebertdraincare.com

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Another Eco Disaster

        Why is it that oil naturally occurring in the ground that people seek to refine and get rich from is ok but oil that is refined and spilled on the ground is a "disaster" needing all kinds of attention to correct?


        J.C.
        Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 04-25-2010, 10:17 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Another Eco Disaster

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          Why is it that oil naturally occurring in the ground that people seek to refine and get rich from is ok but oil that is refined and spilled on the ground is a "disaster" needing all kinds of attention to correct?


          J.C.
          Not to mention that the same crude oil in Gulf of Mexico leaks naturally into the ocean. Since we are at it, why aren't we damming up every river, tributary, and esturary? All that fresh water we are running out of, and yet we just let billions of gallons of it just flow freely away to the oceans, never to return.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Another Eco Disaster

            QUOTE=JCsPlumbing;294112]Why is it that oil naturally occurring in the ground that people seek to refine and get rich from is ok but oil that is refined and spilled on the ground is a "disaster" needing all kinds of attention to correct?


            J.C.[/QUOTE]

            Come on J.C., that oil is way underground and unless we are going to be careful in removing it and transporting it, we run the risk of exposing wildlife, crops and humans to harmful effects of oil. Let's see, gasoline in the car's tank= good idea, gasoline all over the garage floor= problem.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Another Eco Disaster

              I am not for willfull distruction of nature or it resorces.

              nor do I want to see man caused spills and "damage" to areas,

              lest jsut pray they can contain the spill and stop the well head from leaking,

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

              but crude oil is a natural substance, (yes it may damage areas, but nature is pretty good at dealing with it on it own). (they could have let the diesel burn instead of trying to put it out,)

              IN Wyo there are places where oil comes out of the ground like a spring, and I am sure there is in other places of the world, (I have seen it),

              if you want to talk about ecological disasters, look at city's in general, there is hardly any semblance of nature left,

              If you did away with oil the land would be DE forested in a a short wile, as people needing some thing to burn and heat there areas,

              some one wants to put up wind turbines and you may get stopped by the thought a bird may hit it and die, (no one is concerned about feral cats, or high rise buildings that kill millions of birds a year).

              some one want to control some rancher living in the west, and stop him from grazing cattle or cutting down a tree, whey they live in some high rise surrounded by concrete and asphalt.

              yes accidents happen, and there have been allot of irresponsible in some energy extraction, just as there have been in many, many industries.

              do you think that the world would be better and less damage done if there millions of micro farms coving ever available farm able land area?

              I do not know if there are many clear answers, but I do know that the US, was the major supplier of the world after WW2, and has been a major supplier and innovator for the world after that, were a big wide country and to move from one place to another is going to take energy, yes we need to develop energies other than oil,

              electric cars do not solve the problem, only move the problems to other areas, rare and heavy metals. and pollution to some rural power plant,

              but the battery problem is not going to be an easy one to over come, as more and more batteries are using rare metals and the standard Lead acid has lead, and you know the hatred of lead by the EPA,

              If were going to live with modern conveniences, there is going to be some sacrifices, to nature, city's and hi ways, come to mind as an Eco disaster, IMO, but I guess even a log cabin in the wilderness, is a form of mini Eco disaster, (even if it looks natural)
              I guess one has to define what ECO Disaster is, some would say man living is a Eco disaster, any thing other than nature, but as long as man is on this planet, there will be disturbance of nature in some form.

              with out the conveniences we now use, we would end up deforest and condemn the land to most likely a baron wast land in a few years, unless the population was drastically reduced, and the life span would most likely be cut in half as well do to exposure and illness. and lack of medial care.

              but one thing one needs to remember were part of nature as well, and blunders of man are natural as well.

              one of the things one needs to remember that now were being told ever time we exhale we are polluting, to me there seems to be a distortion of what pollution is. (or what the term means)

              (and for clarification I don't believe in chemical farming, I farm organically, and raise natural beef, and want electrical wind power, currently pump water with wind, but I also use tractors and live in a house and heat with oil products and wood, I use electric as well).

              In life there are gives and takes,

              by putting the natural disasters, on the table, what nature dishes out is normally so much greater than any where what man can do, by there feeble attempts,

              IN some ways things have been turned upside down on do we value lives of persons or some bug crawling in the ground.


              and in the disaster in the Gulf, no one has even said to think of or say a prayer for the families of the 11 persons lost in the explosion,
              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
              attributed to Samuel Johnson
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Another Eco Disaster

                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                QUOTE=JCsPlumbing;294112]Why is it that oil naturally occurring in the ground that people seek to refine and get rich from is ok but oil that is refined and spilled on the ground is a "disaster" needing all kinds of attention to correct?


                J.C.
                Come on J.C., that oil is way underground and unless we are going to be careful in removing it and transporting it, we run the risk of exposing wildlife, crops and humans to harmful effects of oil. Let's see, gasoline in the car's tank= good idea, gasoline all over the garage floor= problem.[/QUOTE]

                I'm just thinking that we are all getting a "God Complex" thinking that once we've proven one thing that we know more about it than we actually do.

                J.C.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Another Eco Disaster

                  Originally posted by BHD View Post
                  I am not for willfull distruction of nature or it resorces.

                  nor do I want to see man caused spills and "damage" to areas,

                  lest jsut pray they can contain the spill and stop the well head from leaking,

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                  but crude oil is a natural substance, (yes it may damage areas, but nature is pretty good at dealing with it on it own). (they could have let the diesel burn instead of trying to put it out,)

                  IN Wyo there are places where oil comes out of the ground like a spring, and I am sure there is in other places of the world, (I have seen it),

                  if you want to talk about ecological disasters, look at city's in general, there is hardly any semblance of nature left,

                  If you did away with oil the land would be DE forested in a a short wile, as people needing some thing to burn and heat there areas,

                  some one wants to put up wind turbines and you may get stopped by the thought a bird may hit it and die, (no one is concerned about feral cats, or high rise buildings that kill millions of birds a year).

                  some one want to control some rancher living in the west, and stop him from grazing cattle or cutting down a tree, whey they live in some high rise surrounded by concrete and asphalt.

                  yes accidents happen, and there have been allot of irresponsible in some energy extraction, just as there have been in many, many industries.

                  do you think that the world would be better and less damage done if there millions of micro farms coving ever available farm able land area?

                  I do not know if there are many clear answers, but I do know that the US, was the major supplier of the world after WW2, and has been a major supplier and innovator for the world after that, were a big wide country and to move from one place to another is going to take energy, yes we need to develop energies other than oil,

                  electric cars do not solve the problem, only move the problems to other areas, rare and heavy metals. and pollution to some rural power plant,

                  but the battery problem is not going to be an easy one to over come, as more and more batteries are using rare metals and the standard Lead acid has lead, and you know the hatred of lead by the EPA,

                  If were going to live with modern conveniences, there is going to be some sacrifices, to nature, city's and hi ways, come to mind as an Eco disaster, IMO, but I guess even a log cabin in the wilderness, is a form of mini Eco disaster, (even if it looks natural)
                  I guess one has to define what ECO Disaster is, some would say man living is a Eco disaster, any thing other than nature, but as long as man is on this planet, there will be disturbance of nature in some form.

                  with out the conveniences we now use, we would end up deforest and condemn the land to most likely a baron wast land in a few years, unless the population was drastically reduced, and the life span would most likely be cut in half as well do to exposure and illness. and lack of medial care.

                  but one thing one needs to remember were part of nature as well, and blunders of man are natural as well.

                  one of the things one needs to remember that now were being told ever time we exhale we are polluting, to me there seems to be a distortion of what pollution is. (or what the term means)

                  (and for clarification I don't believe in chemical farming, I farm organically, and raise natural beef, and want electrical wind power, currently pump water with wind, but I also use tractors and live in a house and heat with oil products and wood, I use electric as well).

                  In life there are gives and takes,

                  by putting the natural disasters, on the table, what nature dishes out is normally so much greater than any where what man can do, by there feeble attempts,

                  IN some ways things have been turned upside down on do we value lives of persons or some bug crawling in the ground.


                  and in the disaster in the Gulf, no one has even said to think of or say a prayer for the families of the 11 persons lost in the explosion,
                  Very well said ! I believe most of these envio nuts couldn't grow a little garden to feed their family's to survive ! Lemo. LIBS !
                  I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Another Eco Disaster

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    Come on J.C., that oil is way underground and unless we are going to be careful in removing it and transporting it, we run the risk of exposing wildlife, crops and humans to harmful effects of oil. Let's see, gasoline in the car's tank= good idea, gasoline all over the garage floor= problem.
                    I'm just thinking that we are all getting a "God Complex" thinking that once we've proven one thing that we know more about it than we actually do.

                    J.C.[/QUOTE]

                    I agree that all told we probably know a lot less than we think. I don't want to give up the conveniences I'm accustomed to, I just want folks to be more responsible and not add to the pollution and mess that eventually comes back at us.

                    Some real good posts on this thread, goes to show how well informed and thoughtful some folks are regarding technology and the planet.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Another Eco Disaster

                      Originally posted by HebertDrainCare View Post
                      AFM, you ok under all those teabags?

                      The earth will be fine. We won't.
                      Tea no I don`t drink tea I like my cappuccino in the morning before and after work from my sunbeam expresso machine as the majority of Australians do I am amazed at some of your easy going views but I`ll be in heaven in the next twenty years and with the projected ten billion people on earth fighting for whatever resources are left and more risks taken to get them good luck.

                      Tony

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Another Eco Disaster

                        I ran across this a few days ago on another forum
                        I am not saying we should not try, but it is not a simple to replace the current energy with other,


                        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...302220_pf.html
                        Five myths about green energy

                        By Robert Bryce
                        Sunday, April 25, 2010; B04



                        Americans are being inundated with claims about renewable and alternative energy. Advocates for these technologies say that if we jettison fossil fuels, we'll breathe easier, stop global warming and revolutionize our economy. Yes, "green" energy has great emotional and political appeal. But before we wrap all our hopes -- and subsidies -- in it, let's take a hard look at some common misconceptions about what "green" means.

                        1. Solar and wind power are the greenest of them all.

                        Unfortunately, solar and wind technologies require huge amounts of land to deliver relatively small amounts of energy, disrupting natural habitats. Even an aging natural gas well producing 60,000 cubic feet per day generates more than 20 times the watts per square meter of a wind turbine. A nuclear power plant cranks out about 56 watts per square meter, eight times as much as is derived from solar photovoltaic installations. The real estate that wind and solar energy demand led the Nature Conservancy to issue a report last year critical of "energy sprawl," including tens of thousands of miles of high-voltage transmission lines needed to carry electricity from wind and solar installations to distant cities.

                        Nor does wind energy substantially reduce CO2 emissions. Since the wind doesn't always blow, utilities must use gas- or coal-fired generators to offset wind's unreliability. The result is minimal -- or no -- carbon dioxide reduction.

                        Denmark, the poster child for wind energy boosters, more than doubled its production of wind energy between 1999 and 2007. Yet data from Energinet.dk, the operator of Denmark's natural gas and electricity grids, show that carbon dioxide emissions from electricity generation in 2007 were at about the same level as they were back in 1990, before the country began its frenzied construction of turbines. Denmark has done a good job of keeping its overall carbon dioxide emissions flat, but that is in large part because of near-zero population growth and exorbitant energy taxes, not wind energy. And through 2017, the Danes foresee no decrease in carbon dioxide emissions from electricity generation.

                        2. Going green will reduce our dependence on imports from unsavory regimes.

                        In the new green economy, batteries are not included. Neither are many of the "rare earth" elements that are essential ingredients in most alternative energy technologies. Instead of relying on the diversity of the global oil market -- about 20 countries each produce at least 1 million barrels of crude per day -- the United States will be increasingly reliant on just one supplier, China, for elements known as lanthanides. Lanthanum, neodymium, dysprosium and other rare earth elements are used in products from high-capacity batteries and hybrid-electric vehicles to wind turbines and oil refinery catalysts.

                        China controls between 95 and 100 percent of the global market in these elements. And the Chinese government is reducing its exports of lanthanides to ensure an adequate supply for its domestic manufacturers. Politicians love to demonize oil-exporting countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, but adopting the technologies needed to drastically cut U.S. oil consumption will dramatically increase America's dependence on China.

                        3. A green American economy will create green American jobs.

                        In a global market, American wind turbine manufacturers face the same problem as American shoe manufacturers: high domestic labor costs. If U.S. companies want to make turbines, they will have to compete with China, which not only controls the market for neodymium, a critical ingredient in turbine magnets, but has access to very cheap employees.

                        The Chinese have also signaled their willingness to lose money on solar panels in order to gain market share. China's share of the world's solar module business has grown from about 7 percent in 2005 to about 25 percent in 2009.

                        Meanwhile, the very concept of a green job is not well defined. Is a job still green if it's created not by the market, but by subsidy or mandate? Consider the claims being made by the subsidy-dependent corn ethanol industry. Growth Energy, an industry lobby group, says increasing the percentage of ethanol blended into the U.S. gasoline supply would create 136,000 jobs. But an analysis by the Environmental Working Group found that no more than 27,000 jobs would be created, and each one could cost taxpayers as much as $446,000 per year. Sure, the government can create more green jobs. But at what cost?

                        4. Electric cars will substantially reduce demand for oil.

                        Nissan and Tesla are just two of the manufacturers that are increasing production of all-electric cars. But in the electric car's century-long history, failure tailgates failure. In 1911, the New York Times declared that the electric car "has long been recognized as the ideal" because it "is cleaner and quieter" and "much more economical" than its gasoline-fueled cousins. But the same unreliability of electric car batteries that flummoxed Thomas Edison persists today.

                        Those who believe that Detroit unplugged the electric car are mistaken. Electric cars haven't been sidelined by a cabal to sell internal combustion engines or a lack of political will, but by physics and math. Gasoline contains about 80 times as much energy, by weight, as the best lithium-ion battery. Sure, the electric motor is more efficient than the internal combustion engine, but can we depend on batteries that are notoriously finicky, short-lived and take hours to recharge? Speaking of recharging, last June, the Government Accountability Office reported that about 40 percent of consumers do not have access to an outlet near their vehicle at home. The electric car is the next big thing -- and it always will be.

                        5. The United States lags behind other rich countries in going green.

                        Over the past three decades, the United States has improved its energy efficiency as much as or more than other developed countries. According to data from the Energy Information Administration, average per capita energy consumption in the United States fell by 2.5 percent from 1980 through 2006. That reduction was greater than in any other developed country except Switzerland and Denmark, and the United States achieved it without participating in the Kyoto Protocol or creating an emissions trading system like the one employed in Europe. EIA data also show that the United States has been among the best at reducing the amount of carbon dioxide emitted per $1 of GDP and the amount of energy consumed per $1 of GDP.

                        America's move toward a more service-based economy that is less dependent on heavy industry and manufacturing is driving this improvement. In addition, the proliferation of computer chips in everything from automobiles to programmable thermostats is wringing more useful work out of each unit of energy consumed. The United States will continue going green by simply allowing engineers and entrepreneurs to do what they do best: make products that are faster, cheaper and more efficient than the ones they made the year before.

                        Robert Bryce is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. His fourth book, "Power Hungry: The Myths of 'Green' Energy and the Real Fuels of the Future," will be out Tuesday, April 27.

                        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                        attributed to Samuel Johnson
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Another Eco Disaster

                          I have been thinking about the "Green" products and what is "green".

                          one of the things that would help pocketbooks for consumers and help conserve energy as well as resources, is to make things last, to get the throw away mentality changed,
                          to make repair and products last, (have read on this board about how this does not last or that does not last any more. (even possibly make upgrades for existing products to help in conserving energy),

                          tires fall apart in a few short years, and on slow moving equipment tires do not wear out, one is make a problem in disposal as well using up natural resources for having to replace a product that has failed to a design not to wear,

                          reduce packaging or make it more recyclable,
                          they say there is a plastic island or more of a mat, the size of Texas in the pacific ocean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P..._Garbage_Patch

                          there have been many posts on this board about replacement parts either not available or the cost is more nearly more than the replacement product, (bent a hydraulic cylinder, the cost was about $115 called to get a replacement shaft, it as $90 with out shipping),

                          if things lasted a reasonable time there would be a lot of wast reduced,
                          at one time you had a "Ma Bell" home telephone, and it would last 50 years, now you have to replace the store bought phone nearly yearly, and if you do find a model or brand that last the next time you return for a replacement it is no longer available,

                          how many autos are wore out when sold or junked? I bet most are far from wore out but they have a leaking heater core or some other part that now costs more in labor to replace than the unit is worth, (my sons GM car, had a leaking heater core and some vacuum controls need replaced under the dash, the labor charge was going to be over $1500 to replace about $100 in parts).

                          also much of the items are so much harder to recycle than in years past, with the plastics, and mixtures of materials,

                          most all of the old farm machinery has been recycled at one time you had a scrap iron dealer stopping ever few days wanting any thing that was not used any more, yes it goes in cycles, but times come when the price is up some and millions of tons of scrap steel and iron, is melted back down.

                          I think there is a lot of small changes that could be made, that would reduce energy consumption and use of resources, and some of that is to build and make things last, and to change some thinking that ever thing has to be the latest and newest thing on the market, and to make it repairable and sell the parts to repair at reasonable costs, part of that is keeping a quality design for more than a few days.

                          I know a lot of the things I suggest go against modern marketing concepts,
                          make things last,
                          Just an Opinion,
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                          attributed to Samuel Johnson
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Another Eco Disaster

                            I never owned or drove an electric car, but from watching the movie "Who Killed The Electric Car" I wonder why GM pulled the EV1? Maybe they didn't interview enough folks who drove that vehicle, but all the folks who were outside the GM storage area where the EV1's were collected prior to crushing said they loved the car. They said it had plenty of power, was quiet, range was sufficient for their driving, low upkeep, and that was on old technology batteries.

                            I'm not paranoid, still I don't think the excuses for not pushing plugin cars don't outweigh the advantages. They are not for everyone, there must be more charging facilities, and many problems such as battery cost and disposal need to be resolved.

                            We lost a lot of good vehicles with that disgraceful "Cash for Clunkers" program. No reason cars can't be better engineered. I've changed a few heater cores, and even the so called easy ones are a pain. There is no reason the heater box can't be easily accessible under the hood! I've changed some starters in under ten minutes that were right in view from above the engine compartment, and too many that required the exhaust to be dropped. Just a matter of problem solving, or purposely offering the consumer poorly engineered, poor quality, cheaper to dump than fix products.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Another Eco Disaster

                              Originally posted by BHD View Post
                              I have been thinking about the "Green" products and what is "green".

                              one of the things that would help pocketbooks for consumers and help conserve energy as well as resources, is to make things last, to get the throw away mentality changed,
                              to make repair and products last, (have read on this board about how this does not last or that does not last any more. (even possibly make upgrades for existing products to help in conserving energy),

                              tires fall apart in a few short years, and on slow moving equipment tires do not wear out, one is make a problem in disposal as well using up natural resources for having to replace a product that has failed to a design not to wear,

                              reduce packaging or make it more recyclable,
                              they say there is a plastic island or more of a mat, the size of Texas in the pacific ocean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P..._Garbage_Patch

                              there have been many posts on this board about replacement parts either not available or the cost is more nearly more than the replacement product, (bent a hydraulic cylinder, the cost was about $115 called to get a replacement shaft, it as $90 with out shipping),

                              if things lasted a reasonable time there would be a lot of wast reduced,
                              at one time you had a "Ma Bell" home telephone, and it would last 50 years, now you have to replace the store bought phone nearly yearly, and if you do find a model or brand that last the next time you return for a replacement it is no longer available,

                              how many autos are wore out when sold or junked? I bet most are far from wore out but they have a leaking heater core or some other part that now costs more in labor to replace than the unit is worth, (my sons GM car, had a leaking heater core and some vacuum controls need replaced under the dash, the labor charge was going to be over $1500 to replace about $100 in parts).

                              also much of the items are so much harder to recycle than in years past, with the plastics, and mixtures of materials,

                              most all of the old farm machinery has been recycled at one time you had a scrap iron dealer stopping ever few days wanting any thing that was not used any more, yes it goes in cycles, but times come when the price is up some and millions of tons of scrap steel and iron, is melted back down.

                              I think there is a lot of small changes that could be made, that would reduce energy consumption and use of resources, and some of that is to build and make things last, and to change some thinking that ever thing has to be the latest and newest thing on the market, and to make it repairable and sell the parts to repair at reasonable costs, part of that is keeping a quality design for more than a few days.

                              I know a lot of the things I suggest go against modern marketing concepts,
                              make things last,
                              Just an Opinion,
                              You have an excelent point. Mom had a washer and dryer for 25 plus years. I've been out on my own for 20 and have had 3 sets, two of which were bought new. At least you can work on the cheap versions of them. If you can find parts.
                              www.ClinkscalesSeptic.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Another Eco Disaster

                                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                                I never owned or drove an electric car, but from watching the movie "Who Killed The Electric Car" I wonder why GM pulled the EV1? Maybe they didn't interview enough folks who drove that vehicle, but all the folks who were outside the GM storage area where the EV1's were collected prior to crushing said they loved the car. They said it had plenty of power, was quiet, range was sufficient for their driving, low upkeep, and that was on old technology batteries.

                                I'm not paranoid, still I don't think the excuses for not pushing plugin cars don't outweigh the advantages. They are not for everyone, there must be more charging facilities, and many problems such as battery cost and disposal need to be resolved.

                                We lost a lot of good vehicles with that disgraceful "Cash for Clunkers" program. No reason cars can't be better engineered. I've changed a few heater cores, and even the so called easy ones are a pain. There is no reason the heater box can't be easily accessible under the hood! I've changed some starters in under ten minutes that were right in view from above the engine compartment, and too many that required the exhaust to be dropped. Just a matter of problem solving, or purposely offering the consumer poorly engineered, poor quality, cheaper to dump than fix products.
                                My wife drives a 98 Dodge Durango. It's got 150,000ish miles. The heater core was replaced once. It took my mechanic all day to do the job. It's on it's way out again and I'm not looking forward to the bill. I doubt if the car will be worth the repair cost. I would probably buy a new car if I could afford it, throwing away an otherwise perfectly good car.
                                www.ClinkscalesSeptic.com

                                Comment

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