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Is It Racist

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  • Re: Is It Racist

    Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
    There is a logical error in concluding that since the crime rate was declining, the existing immigration enforcement laws were working. The two are not related in the sense you are using them. If the crime rate dropped to zero, it wouldn't matter. The fact is that there would still be persons in the Country illegally. Immigration law needs to be enforced irrespective. You are trying to justify your opposition to the bill and apparently your support for a "do-nothing" policy. However, it skirts the fact that there are people in the US in violation of standing law.

    Those that oppose the bill are opposed to enforcement of existing law, which is what the Arizona bill is about. Manipulating public opinion by hyperbole and misapplied statistics is equivalent to trying to control public policy by selecting to not enforce, and therefore effectively invalidate, standing law based on your wishes... without going through due process. If any of this could be considered Machiavellian, I would say that is!

    It doesn't matter who is behind the law. The language of the law is what it is. For all your citations and statistics, you haven't pointed to one provision actually appearing in the law that supports the assertion that the actual bill itself is racist. Continually saying it is so does not make it so.

    I don't happen to favor summary deportation of all illegals. Earlier in this thread I proposed a change in policy where immigrants could relatively easily obtain temporary work visas while they were investigated and processed for more durable work visas. I believe that many of those folks do contribute positively. We should IMO come to a solution that maintains the integrity of the law in an intelligent and reasonable way. Ignoring the law doesn't, and strictly deporting everyone isn't much better. Issuing work visas via a streamlined registration process would address the problems with illegals in a constructive fashion.

    However, Arizona does not control Federal immigration law. What they are doing is what they are empowered to do to address an issue that is important to the citizens, namely, the enforcement of existing immigration law. I believe that responding to public concern to mandate enforcement of existing laws is perfectly reasonable and rational, and is what Government should be doing.
    Andy, those who wish to disobey our laws and keep illegals enslaved will use any argument to justify their ends. Wheter or not our immigration laws are fair has nothing to do with the fact that they have been broken and need to be enforced. We should not have to make the argument for why our laws deserve to be enforced. I believe change is coming, our borders will be secured and one way or another we will determine who is in our country.

    Exactly how the issue of illegals will be resolved is yet to be determined. I am in favor of a multilevel approach, depending on how long they have been living here, ties to the community, family status, and finally, whether or not they want to become American citizens! There are plenty of illegals who are supporting families in other countries, who have no intention of staying here past a certain time or monetary goal.

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    • Re: Is It Racist

      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
      Andy, those who wish to disobey our laws and keep illegals enslaved will use any argument to justify their ends. Wheter or not our immigration laws are fair has nothing to do with the fact that they have been broken and need to be enforced. We should not have to make the argument for why our laws deserve to be enforced. I believe change is coming, our borders will be secured and one way or another we will determine who is in our country.

      Exactly how the issue of illegals will be resolved is yet to be determined. I am in favor of a multilevel approach, depending on how long they have been living here, ties to the community, family status, and finally, whether or not they want to become American citizens! There are plenty of illegals who are supporting families in other countries, who have no intention of staying here past a certain time or monetary goal.
      I agree with you, and if a solid means of accommodating those that would legitimately contribute or continue to contribute to the U.S., while not compromising the integrity and fairness of U.S. Immigration law (already quite lax by world standards) then I would have no problem whatsoever in supporting it.

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      • Re: Is It Racist

        Two part video about OTMs (Other Than Mexicans) coming into the USA thru Mexico. You should watch this.

        http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html
        "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
        John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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        • Re: Is It Racist

          you do not hear this on the news,

          California penal code 834b the quote is from the "Welcome to the official site for California legislative information." http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/

          http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...ile=833-851.90

          834b. (a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully
          cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization
          Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is
          suspected of being present in the United States in violation of
          federal immigration laws.
          (b) With respect to any such person who is arrested, and suspected
          of being present in the United States in violation of federal
          immigration laws, every law enforcement agency shall do the
          following:
          (1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen
          of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent
          resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time
          or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of
          immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not
          be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and
          place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding
          documentation to indicate his or her legal status.
          (2) Notify the person of his or her apparent status as an alien
          who is present in the United States in violation of federal
          immigration laws and inform him or her that, apart from any criminal
          justice proceedings, he or she must either obtain legal status or
          leave the United States.
          (3) Notify the Attorney General of California and the United
          States Immigration and Naturalization Service of the apparent illegal
          status and provide any additional information that may be requested
          by any other public entity.
          (c) Any legislative, administrative, or other action by a city,
          county, or other legally authorized local governmental entity with
          jurisdictional boundaries, or by a law enforcement agency, to prevent
          or limit the cooperation required by subdivision (a) is expressly
          prohibited.
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
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          attributed to Samuel Johnson
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