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  • #31
    Re: Is It Racist

    Why every time something like this comes up people say "Its against the constitution" The constitution was written in 1787!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we should go back to horse and carriage throw away all of are computers and medicine we have learned over the past 225 years and go back to out house's instead of plumbing because they must have know better back then. As time goes on things change and so should the constitution. If you are in this country illegaly then we should have the right to knock down your door and send you back!

    Dont get me wrong if people want to come to our great country they should be allowed. But done the right way. learn English, are history stuff like that. Not floating over on a raft speaking spanish and then having kids and stealing are money for food stamps school systems and welfare. People need to wake up and relize it aint 1787 anymore.
    You can lose with me, but you can't win without me!.... PPI

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    • #32
      Re: Is It Racist

      Violent crime being committed by illegals is a myth. It has no bearing on fact.

      Here and here.

      "According to a recent study by the University of Arizona, if all undocumented workers were removed from Arizona’s workforce, economic output would drop annually by at least $29 billion, or 8.2 percent. In Arizona alone, non-citizen immigrants are in high demand adding $6.56 billion in construction output, $3.77 billion in manufacturing, $2.48 billion in service sectors, and $600.9 million in agriculture."

      Here.

      "The buying power of Hispanics in the United States totaled $798 billion in 2006 and is expected to increase to $1.2 trillion by 2011. The Commerce Department estimates that nondurable-goods manufacturing (textiles, apparel, etc.) added $685.5 billion to the U.S. GDP in 2006, while construction added $647.9 billion and accommodation and food services contributed $349.9 billion. "

      "The 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible for public benefits. According to the New York Times, “Illegal immigrants are pumping the Social Security system with as much as $7 billion a year and contributing to Medicare in payroll taxes, yet they are unable to collect on the benefits…Starting in the late 1980’s, the Social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with fake Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the “earnings suspense file” in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to…$189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990’s…” Here.

      Illegal immigration is clearly a problem. But all of the complaints I have heard articulated thus far, not just here but elsewhere, are not based on available information.

      A conversation based on the available information would be can be constructive. No purpose is served vilifying a group of people that would not be able to live here were it not for our fellow citizens knowingly providing jobs illegally.

      No jobs, no illegals.

      Were the shoe on the other foot how many of us would take the risks to provide for our families?

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Is It Racist

        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
        Violent crime being committed by illegals is a myth. It has no bearing on fact.

        Here and here.

        "According to a recent study by the University of Arizona, if all undocumented workers were removed from Arizona’s workforce, economic output would drop annually by at least $29 billion, or 8.2 percent. In Arizona alone, non-citizen immigrants are in high demand adding $6.56 billion in construction output, $3.77 billion in manufacturing, $2.48 billion in service sectors, and $600.9 million in agriculture."

        Here.

        "The buying power of Hispanics in the United States totaled $798 billion in 2006 and is expected to increase to $1.2 trillion by 2011. The Commerce Department estimates that nondurable-goods manufacturing (textiles, apparel, etc.) added $685.5 billion to the U.S. GDP in 2006, while construction added $647.9 billion and accommodation and food services contributed $349.9 billion. "

        "The 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible for public benefits. According to the New York Times, “Illegal immigrants are pumping the Social Security system with as much as $7 billion a year and contributing to Medicare in payroll taxes, yet they are unable to collect on the benefits…Starting in the late 1980’s, the Social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with fake Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the “earnings suspense file” in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to…$189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990’s…” Here.

        Illegal immigration is clearly a problem. But all of the complaints I have heard articulated thus far, not just here but elsewhere, are not based on available information.

        A conversation based on the available information would be can be constructive. No purpose is served vilifying a group of people that would not be able to live here were it not for our fellow citizens knowingly providing jobs illegally.

        No jobs, no illegals.

        Were the shoe on the other foot how many of us would take the risks to provide for our families?

        I have not looked at it lately but the GAO did a study that showed a large number of illegas were incarcerated.

        As for money spent by Hispanics, you don't differentiate between US citizens, documented aliens and illegal aliens.

        I know for a fact illegals receive public services as California is not allowed to ask about citizenship. I was involved with a HUD property management company and many of the tenants which were subsidized were not legal residents.

        My sister works for Texas Health and Human Services and sees the same thing with illegal aliens there.

        Mark
        Last edited by ToUtahNow; 04-28-2010, 12:35 AM.
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Is It Racist

          Originally posted by PlumbingParamedics View Post
          Why every time something like this comes up people say "Its against the constitution" The constitution was written in 1787!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we should go back to horse and carriage throw away all of are computers and medicine we have learned over the past 225 years and go back to out house's instead of plumbing because they must have know better back then. As time goes on things change and so should the constitution.
          The real beauty of the Constitution of the United States is that it is timeless. The threat comes from those that interpret the Constitution in ways that are not consistent with the original architects' intent. Some of the interpretations and abridgements of the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution are pretty wild... as in the efforts of the gun control lobby. Or the "Patriot Act". I still can't believe that real American Patriots weren't rioting in the street over that one. Signs of the times, I guess.

          Enforcing laws such as immigration is not in conflict with the Constitution. We don't need to change the Constitution. We, as in We The People, simply need to reject interpretations that play to the purpose of special interests. Make no mistake about it, the issue about illegals is economic. There are people making money off of the status quo, and it will cost money to enforce the law.

          But the last thing we need is to ignore the Constitution or change it. It's very relevant today. Its enemies are your enemies. Remember Orwell's Animal Farm? The Constitution was changed from "All animals are equal" to "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".

          Some pretty smart guys designed this Country. I don't think there's any white hats today that are as smart as they were. But there are probably some black hats around that are close.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Is It Racist

            I was watching Fox News last night and they had an Arizona sherrif talking about the out of control car chases involving illegals, and other crimes they commit. I guess some of you will discount such reports as racist? Whether or not you believe we benefit financially from cheap labor illegals provide, does not change the fact that some of them cause crime here, all of them not paying taxes and receiving gov't monies further burden tax payers. I feel it is in the best interest of all, the illegals and the tax paying legal Americans, to see this issue resolved. No more cheap sub culture labor, too bad if you will pay more for certain products and services, this behavior needs to stop. The USA needs to secure it's borders more than it needs cheap labor and the problems it brings. The citizens of Arizona and all states deserve protection from drug and human trafficers, criminal element with no legal status in our country. Uphold the laws of the land or push to have them reformed, but if you have a shred of decency don't fool yourself into thinking what has been going on for years with these folks is right.

            Personally, I think folks who want this issue to stay unresolved are racist. They want the illegals to stay in the shadows, underpaid and abused. They don't want the criminals among them held to the same justice as everyone else. Defending the status quo is not taking a stand, it is laying down.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Is It Racist

              I would like to see all the people that are here already get citizenship. That is what I would like to see.....then off course some better immigration laws, etc.

              There is no reason to through anyone out, its a HUGE country, we have plenty of room in America for everyone.....and if you don't think so, just drive through Kansas one afternoon......there is plenty of land here for everyone, no matter their race, color or creed.

              This is America!

              BTW - 20 years ago Arizona was the only state that didn't want to adopt Martin Lurther King Day. as a Holiday,.......now this........whats with Arizona?

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Is It Racist

                "I would like to see all the people that are here already get citizenship. That is what I would like to see.....then off course some better immigration laws, etc."

                What good would better immigration laws be if they aren't enforced? We already have immigration laws that are being ignored by the illegals and not enforced by our government.
                When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Is It Racist

                  When someone emigrates to this country legally, passes all of the requirements and becomes a citizen, then is arrested for breaking the law, what happens to them?

                  If convicted, they serve any court imposed sentence, are stripped of their citizenship and are deported to their native country.

                  Why shouldn't illegal immigrants suffer the same fate. Illegal means that they broke one of our laws.

                  If you are stopped by an officer of the law, even if you are a natural born citizen, you had better comply with all of their requests or you can be arrested for resistance to a duly deputized law officer. Even if you are in the right, do not ever fail to comply. There are legal means to later challenge an officers conduct in court. No officer wants to face a false arrest charge and will do the right thing when treated with respect.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Is It Racist

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    I have not looked at it lately but the GAO did a study that showed a large number of illegas were incarcerated.

                    As for money spent by Hispanics, you don't differentiate between US citizens, documented aliens and illegal aliens.

                    I know for a fact illegals receive public services as California is not allowed to ask about citizenship. I was involved with a HUD property management company and many of the tenants which were subsidized were not legal residents.

                    My sister works for Texas Health and Human Services and sees the same thing with illegal aliens there.

                    Mark
                    Anecdotal evidence. Please cite your sources. I could just as easily claim the contrary.

                    We are talking about Arizona, not California.

                    I find it interesting that an illegal citizen can be housed in our prisons, because they broke our laws, but a wild eyed terrorist that broke our laws should not be offered the same legal process.
                    Last edited by SpiffPeters; 04-28-2010, 08:45 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Is It Racist

                      Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                      Anecdotal evidence. Please cite your sources. I could just as easily claim the contrary.

                      We are talking about Arizona, not California.
                      Since I addressed several issues, evidence of what?

                      As our border goes beyond Arizona and this is a National problem I was addressing the United States.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Is It Racist

                        Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                        I would like to see all the people that are here already get citizenship.
                        So you want to reward some one for breaking the law, is that it?

                        Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                        then off course some better immigration laws, etc.
                        I agree with you there the laws or process seems to be a mess, and it appears federal law makers are unwilling to help the problem,

                        Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                        There is no reason to through anyone out, its a HUGE country, we have plenty of room in America for everyone.....and if you don't think so, just drive through Kansas one afternoon......there is plenty of land here for everyone, no matter their race, color or creed.
                        why not as your neighbor? there is a reason why much of the west is not populated, and the simple is there is little way of making a living, what are they to do in ks, or WY, or the Dakotas, or Nevada, etc.

                        Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                        This is America!
                        yes and we need to protect out boarders and the people that live there, I doubt you read about the rancher that got shot a few weeks ago when he ran into some people crossing the boarder,, http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/29...izona-rancher/ apparently they were drug smugglers http://www.abc15.com/content/news/ce...Ilj8ia6GA.cspx

                        Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                        BTW - 20 years ago Arizona was the only state that didn't want to adopt Martin Luther King Day. as a Holiday,.......now this........whats with Arizona?
                        Neither did New Hampshire until 1999, Arizona adopted it in 1992, Utah in 2000, and South Carolina becomes the last state to make MLK Day a paid holiday for all state employees, in 2000.

                        (I have noticed many schools and busnesses do not observe federal holidays,)

                        and observing or adopting a federal holiday is a state right, California does not observe Columbus day,

                        In Arazona do not use or adopt day light saving time as well, so what does that make them as a state?
                        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
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                        • #42
                          Re: Is It Racist

                          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post

                          I find it interesting that an illegal citizen can be housed in our prisons, because they broke our laws, but a wild eyed terrorist that broke our laws should not be offered the same legal process.
                          Since you added this afterwards I will address this as well.

                          Terrorists who attack our country should not be afforded the same rights as our citizens. There is a major difference between an act of war and a theft of property or violent act against an individual. I do have a conflict when it is our citizen and it happens within our borders.
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Is It Racist

                            The issue we are discussing here has many complications, the most obvious to some is laws have been broken case closed! There are many of us who see beyond that basic statement, we take into consideration that both republican and democratic lead administrations have allowed and probably encouraged this to take place for many years. How do you suddenly after so many years of looking the other way, decide to strickly enforce laws that would separate families, destroy businesses and lives? I think there needs to be serious, well thought out procedures that will allow for a smooth, fair transition towards compliance. One thing that is a must in my opinion, is a secure border. We need to stop drugs and crime from invading our country, as well as addressing the folks who are desperatly fleeing the poverty, violence and horror taking place in Mexico. I think we can fairly handle the issue of illegals and secure our borders, but it won't happen without desire, effort and government action.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Is It Racist

                              Illegal immigration is nothing new in the United States. Our borders have been ignored for entirely too long. My first experience with illegal aliens was back in 1968 while I was still in High School. I got a job at a Denny’s Restaurant where I was the only legal dishwasher. Within a couple of days I moved up to bus boy leaving all of the dishwashers being illegal. When one of the dishwasher’s wife had twins, I helped him with his apartment lease and got the waitresses to do a baby shower of sorts.

                              For the next 15-years or so I would see illegals all over Southern California and even remember when the illegal drywall guys went on strike. As ridiculous as it seemed at the time, they got what they wanted.

                              My next experience was when I took a bunch of my plumber’s dove hunting down in Blyth. We were all having a great time and some of the guys wanted to head towards San Diego for more hunting. While driving my motor home through the desert we came up to an INS check point. It was just a van and a couple of agents. Oddly enough this is the only INS checkpoint I have seen in my 57-years with the exception of the normal buildings on the freeway by the border. All of a sudden one of my plumbers ran into the bathroom. I assumed he was screwing around but it turned out he was an illegal alien from Cuba. He did not work for me at my plumbing company and instead was a plumber from my construction company. When we got back to LA I gave him a severance payment and let him go.

                              Now my most recent one is a little more difficult. Back in 1988 or so a friend from church came to my wife and asked her to hire a house keeper to clean house once a week. The girl was a young unwed pregnant mother who had migrated with her family years earlier and had been through the Reagan amnesty. She was trying to earn some money before the baby came. Of course after the baby was born she needed help to support her and the baby so we continued using her. Fifteen years later she had to return to Mexico for her mother’s funeral. That is when she first complained about how much she had to pay for a coyote to sneak her back in. It turned out she never went through amnesty because she was afraid she was going to be deported. Now we are emotional involved with her and we consider her as part of the family.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Is It Racist

                                The draconian approach of rounding them all up and shipping them back to Mexico may be cathartic, but it completely ignores the reality and complexities of the issue.

                                As a group, they are more law abiding than native born citizens. They are consumers that stimulate local economies. They are a work force many industries are dependent on. They do pay taxes and contribute to the government roles.

                                Sure there are illegals that consume government resources. But by and large there are bigger fish to fry than the relative few that take more than they give.

                                There needs to be a pragmatic approach to getting these folks legal. Deporting them is not only impossible, but would have negative effects on local businesses.

                                They are here. What is the least disruptive process to our communities and economy and the most effective way to make these people legal citizens?

                                By and large these are not bad people. They knew they were breaking the law, but can we blame them for doing what they need to do to support their family?

                                As for the guns, violence and drugs, well, you take the drugs out of the picture and the guns and violence goes away. Who is selling these guys their guns in the first place?

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