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  • #31
    Re: 500 less

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    Have they now released Bruce Ivins for some reason?

    Mark
    Bruce Ivins committed suicide in July of 2008. On August 6th, 2008, the FBI formally announced that they had come to the conclusion that Ivins was likely to have been solely responsible for the Anthrax deaths. He had a problem with Daschle and Leahy because of their Pro Choice stance. Ironic, isn't it?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: 500 less

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      I would actually like to see some documentation on the 20-attacks. I know there have been a bunch of planned attacks which were thwarted but that is different than attacks carried out.
      Sorry I have no convenient links for the 20 attacks. If you would like I can spend time compiling one. I'm really not interested in taking that time.

      Some well known attacks that were carried out under bush are:

      Originally posted by mediamatters
      2001 anthrax attacks. A March 2004 State Department report on "Significant Terrorist Incidents, 1961-2003" quotes then-Attorney General John Ashcroft saying of the letters containing anthrax mailed to various targets: "When people send anthrax through the mail to hurt people and invoke terror, it's a terrorist act." Five people were killed as a result of those letters in the autumn of 2001.

      2001 shoe bomber attempted attack. In June 2008, then-Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff described Reid's December 2001 attempt "to blow up a trans-Atlantic plane with a shoe bomb" as an attempt to "carry out terrorist operations for Al-Qaeda."

      2002 attack against El Al ticket counter at LAX. In July 2002, Hesham Mohamed Hadayet opened fire at an El Al Airlines ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport killing two people and wounding four others before being shot dead. A 2004 Justice Department report stated that Hadayet's case had been "officially designated as an act of international terrorism."

      2002 DC-area sniper. The state of Virginia indicted Washington, D.C.-area sniper John Allen Muhammad -- along with his accomplice, a minor at the time -- on "an act of terrorism" for one of the murders he committed during a three-week shooting spree across Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, D.C. Muhammad was convicted, sentenced to death, and subsequently executed for the crime.

      2006 UNC SUV attack. In March 2006, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill graduate Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar drove an SUV into an area of campus, striking nine pedestrians. According to reports, Taheri-azar said he acted because he wanted to "avenge the deaths or murders of Muslims around the world." Taheri-azar also reportedly stated in a letter: "I was aiming to follow in the footsteps of one of my role models, Mohammad Atta, one of the 9/11/01 hijackers, who obtained a doctorate degree."


      As for 9/11, the discussion is usually the attacks after 9/11. On 9/10 we lived in a totally different world. I am also curious why you say they never caught the perpetrator in the anthrax case? Have they now released Bruce Ivins for some reason?
      I disagree we do not live in a totally different world. Terrorist attacks have been made on the US for it's entire existence. The twin towers had been attacked previously. Our government had been fighting against terrorism before 9/11 and have continued to do so after 9/11. 9/11 is the peak of terrorist achievement, since then both administrations renewed efforts to combat them. As a country we been dismantling their ability to organize and attack us. The most recent attacks to me are a sign of our success. They have been unorganized and unsophisticated.

      Honestly I hadn't heard about Bruce Ivins prior to you mentioning him. After a quick google of his name I conclude, they never caught Bruce Ivins. He killed himself in 2008, 7 years after the attack he was a free man. He was suspected of making the attacks but it was never definitively proven. He was never brought to justice. I'm content with letting him take the blame however. As a result of those attacks we have strengthened regulation in that area and it is unlikely anyone could carry out an attack in the same manner.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: 500 less

        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
        Bruce Ivins committed suicide in July of 2008. On August 6th, 2008, the FBI formally announced that they had come to the conclusion that Ivins was likely to have been solely responsible for the Anthrax deaths. He had a problem with Daschle and Leahy because of their Pro Choice stance. Ironic, isn't it?
        Interesting, I knew they were going to charge him but I didn't realize he committed suicide.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: 500 less

          Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
          Sorry I have no convenient links for the 20 attacks. If you would like I can spend time compiling one. I'm really not interested in taking that time.

          Some well known attacks that were carried out under bush are:

          2001 anthrax attacks. A March 2004 State Department report on "Significant Terrorist Incidents, 1961-2003" quotes then-Attorney General John Ashcroft saying of the letters containing anthrax mailed to various targets: "When people send anthrax through the mail to hurt people and invoke terror, it's a terrorist act." Five people were killed as a result of those letters in the autumn of 2001.

          2001 shoe bomber attempted attack. In June 2008, then-Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff described Reid's December 2001 attempt "to blow up a trans-Atlantic plane with a shoe bomb" as an attempt to "carry out terrorist operations for Al-Qaeda."

          2002 attack against El Al ticket counter at LAX. In July 2002, Hesham Mohamed Hadayet opened fire at an El Al Airlines ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport killing two people and wounding four others before being shot dead. A 2004 Justice Department report stated that Hadayet's case had been "officially designated as an act of international terrorism."

          2002 DC-area sniper. The state of Virginia indicted Washington, D.C.-area sniper John Allen Muhammad -- along with his accomplice, a minor at the time -- on "an act of terrorism" for one of the murders he committed during a three-week shooting spree across Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, D.C. Muhammad was convicted, sentenced to death, and subsequently executed for the crime.

          2006 UNC SUV attack. In March 2006, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill graduate Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar drove an SUV into an area of campus, striking nine pedestrians. According to reports, Taheri-azar said he acted because he wanted to "avenge the deaths or murders of Muslims around the world." Taheri-azar also reportedly stated in a letter: "I was aiming to follow in the footsteps of one of my role models, Mohammad Atta, one of the 9/11/01 hijackers, who obtained a doctorate degree."


          I disagree we do not live in a totally different world. Terrorist attacks have been made on the US for it's entire existence. The twin towers had been attacked previously. Our government had been fighting against terrorism before 9/11 and have continued to do so after 9/11. 9/11 is the peak of terrorist achievement, since then both administrations renewed efforts to combat them. As a country we been dismantling their ability to organize and attack us. The most recent attacks to me are a sign of our success. They have been unorganized and unsophisticated.

          Honestly I hadn't heard about Bruce Ivins prior to you mentioning him. After a quick google of his name I conclude, they never caught Bruce Ivins. He killed himself in 2008, 7 years after the attack he was a free man. He was suspected of making the attacks but it was never definitively proven. He was never brought to justice. I'm content with letting him take the blame however. As a result of those attacks we have strengthened regulation in that area and it is unlikely anyone could carry out an attack in the same manner.
          I suspect we have a different interpretation of the attacks which are being discussed in this thread.

          If you think we live in the same world we did pre 9/11 you obviously do not do much traveling.

          To say Ivins was not brought to justice is weak at best. They had already determined he was the sole custodian of the anthrax used in the attack and were planning on arresting him.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: 500 less

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            They had already determined he was the sole custodian of the anthrax used in the attack and were planning on arresting him.

            Mark
            He was likely the sole person. It was not absolute nor definitive. I think the distinction is significant.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: 500 less

              Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
              He was likely the sole person. It was not absolute nor definitive. I think the distinction is significant.
              I don't know they had hundreds of pages of evidence against him. They knew he was tampering with the samples they requested for testing. They finally forced their way into his secret lab location to forcibly take a sample. He was had and they were just dotting the "I"s and crossing the "T"s.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: 500 less

                The distinction of 'was' and 'likely' is purely legal. But it is a distinction none the less.

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