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  • Mojave Memorial Cross

    I don't know how many of you have followed this but there was a 7' cross out in the Mojave Desert which was erected back in 1934 in memory of those lost in WW I. It was on Public Land but had been maintained by volunteers over the last 75+ years. I believe the original cross has been reconstructed at least once but I am not sure.

    The ACLU wanted the cross removed based on a separation of Church and State. The courts ruled in favor of the ACLU and made the volunteers cover the cross while the decision was appealed. Congress found out what was going on and approved a land swap for a parcel owned by the VFW which was of equal value. The ACLU then sued saying Congress should not be allowed to do land exchanges even though they are done all of the time.

    On April 28, 2010 the case was finally decided by the Supreme Court. The court found the land exchange to be legal and the cross can stay for now. Over the weekend some low-life tore the cross down and made off with it. I sincerely hope the vandals are caught and prosecutes to the full extent of the law. I would also like to see the 7' cross replaced with a 70' cross. Not that the 7' cross was not significant enough but to show the losers who stole the cross their efforts were futile.

    Mark

    BTW: For those who travel the 15, this cross is out in the middle of no where off of Cima Road.
    Last edited by ToUtahNow; 05-11-2010, 02:05 PM.
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

  • #2
    Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

    I think a 70' cross would be perfect. The dirty rotten SOB's should be strung up!
    www.ClinkscalesSeptic.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

      These vandals make me sick. I hope they are caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

      The crux of the problem is not the land swap. It is the fact the congress designated the cross a national memorial and retained a reversionary interest in the land. The owner of the land is required, by congress, to maintain the memorial.

      So we have a national memorial on private property and a congressional mandate that said private property shall be maintained by a private party.

      The court did not address the plaintiffs standing on the matter so a private citizen is free to challenge this ruling.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
        These vandals make me sick. I hope they are caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

        The crux of the problem is not the land swap. It is the fact the congress designated the cross a national memorial and retained a reversionary interest in the land. The owner of the land is required, by congress, to maintain the memorial.

        So we have a national memorial on private property and a congressional mandate that said private property shall be maintained by a private party.

        The court did not address the plaintiffs standing on the matter so a private citizen is free to challenge this ruling.
        It has to go back to the Ninth District so it will be interesting to see what happens there. I can see the problem with the mandate of the memorial but I think Congress wanted to make sure no one wanted the land for private interest. I'm sure the VFW will maintain it as a memorial and there won't be a problem.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

          I'm Jewish and have no issues with that cross! It's a monument of respect!
          I wonder when the goof balls will pull the crosses at Arlington?
          It is "public land" and well you know what I mean!

          For that matter when will they sand blast off all engravings related to the bible...old, new, rewritten or otherwise?

          Finally how can we hit a reset button to put this country back to where it should be?

          Let's take the enemies of our country and send the whole bunch to say Iran and see how long they last.

          Cactus Man

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

            Who is an enemy?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

              The ACLU if nothing else, defines the metaphor "Double edged sword". These people perform a noble cause in absolute terms, yet, they then pull off the most asinine stunts such as this that only ends up as a pyrific victory that only leaves the ACLU scorched.

              Case in point, here they are enforcing "separation of church and state" by the removal of a religious symbol off of public land, even though it's sole purpose was to serve as a memorial of veterens of World War One. Yet, as of yesterday, in another high profile case, the ACLU has come to the defence of a citizen over a First Amendment violation.

              Here is the story link:http://www.masslive.com/news/index.s...mmittee_2.html

              Folks, this event was brought forth by the Pheobe suicide case where constant humiliation, harrassment, and bullying was ruled the cause of this tragedy. Now keep in mind, and alot of people do not seem to understand this concept, the First Amendment only applies to communication between the government and it's citizens. So, what we had here was a public forum, held at a public office, where communication was being transferred between government officials and the citizens. Yet, certain subjects and certain people's names were forbidden from being mentioned. Naturally, this irritated many, even though everyone knew who the name belonged to. However, I am going to have to side with the ACLU with this one.

              In the end, the very mention of ACLU just makes me want to groan.
              Last edited by tailgunner; 05-11-2010, 10:42 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

                UCLA or ACLU?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

                  Was it the ACLU, or some idiot who brought the case to the ACLU, like in past cases?

                  From a legal perspective, I don't understand how or what any Federal court would even bother hearing this case.

                  If, in fact, there was truly seperation of "church and state"... then the Federal government shouldn't be able to rule on the matter because it is of a religious nature.... or am I thinking in the extreme?

                  I find absolutely nothing wrong with any religious symbol... seeing it doesn't make me change my beliefs, nor does it incite any riotous feelings within me.

                  So, what are we going to do next.... visit every military battle field and veteran's cemetary and remove all of the Christian Crosses as well as the Star of Davids and other religious monuments?

                  Such legal cases are beyond absurd, IMHO and I think that prosecution of this particular case should go to what ever extent to make an example for others... and then, this whole matter of "Church and State" should be left out of the courts. "Church and State" doesn't have to mean NO recognition of religion whatsoever, it simply means that we as a government will not prevent religion, will not invade the sanctity of the church, and will not persecute because of religious belief. Nor will we, the government, use religion to advance whatever policies or agenda that are in the interest of the government.

                  CWS

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

                    Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                    UCLA or ACLU?
                    ACLU. When I am wrong about something, it's consistant.

                    Heh, fixed all my typos, but I did provide a link to the news article for the official statement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

                      Were the symbol in question a crescent moon would the arguments be the same?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

                        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                        Were the symbol in question a crescent moon would the arguments be the same?
                        I believe one would have to be pretty naive to not recognize there are those who are cheering for the cross as a Christian symbol and others who are cheering for the cross just because of the glee of the Ninth Circuit being overturned once again.

                        The above said, historically crosses have been used to honor fallen heroes regardless of religious affiliation. This cross was erected by Veterans 76-years ago to honor those lost during WW I. There has been a 10-year battle over the cross and it appears the cross was going to be saved. Instead of accepting defeat a group of thieves decided their fight was more important than the law.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

                          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                          Were the symbol in question a crescent moon would the arguments be the same?
                          Spiff, if a crescent moon represented what all those soldiers fought and died for way back when, then yes! I believe their ideals were "For God and Country", like it or not our country had strong christian values and influence at the time and unless you want to rewrite history the symbol of the cross must remain as accurate.

                          I would imagine if sometime in the future the majority religion in our country were to become something represented by a crescent moon, then future generations would find that symbol along side the graves or memorials to their fallen heroes.

                          I am not a chanmpion of christian beliefs or history, but I find it upsetting when people try to change the facts after the fact. For example, removing religious symbols such as the cross from text books having to do with the history of our country. The spaniards and others carried the cross and displayed it while exploring, fighting and settling the new world. Should we make believe that did not happen to appease those who are upset or offended by christianity? How about changing all the names of places in the USA that start with ST.?

                          I think we should let the symbols that acknowledge respect and truth about the past, stand safe as proof of time gone by.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

                            We are a nation of christians, not a christian nation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mojave Memorial Cross

                              Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                              We are a nation of christians, not a christian nation.
                              Spiff, that's a real snappy line but history would prove the majority religion displays some symbol of their belief on memorials, graves and in text. Unless you want to rewrite history, the crosses will remain as proof of the period.

                              Now as I said, if that crescent moon ever becomes the majority religion's symbol I'm sure you will find it displayed in a similar fashion. I think people confuse the interference of "church", or religion in government matters, with the desire of the masses to include religious symbols in certain "public" arenas.

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