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  • #16
    Re: Fire the idiot

    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
    Noooooo Spiff, you didn't listen to the whole thing. What Holder said was that he thinks the law is unconstitutional, and he made that comment without reading the law which BTW is only 17 pages. You would think he would at least skim through it before making stupid comments.
    I agree with NH here before that exchange Holder had publicly expressed personal opinions on the law about the constitutionality of the law. If he hadn't read the law you probably shouldn't have been saying anything on it. He's the Attorney General, people take his legal analysis very seriously, he doesn't get the same verbal leeway other politicians get.

    The other thing he did in another deposition was about Islamic extremists.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOQt_mP6Pgg

    Once again Holder is an idiot in that exchange. That one is a two sided coin. Lamar Smith has subscribed to the Republican word smiths and the word 'Radical' is one they want to, in as many instances possible, associate with negative connotations. Holder is tripping over himself trying to avoid that trap. Yes 'radical' Islam can lead to terrorist ideology. Radical Islam does not mean terrorist however. It is possible to be a Islamic terrorist without being 'radical'. A reactionary Islamist could commit acts of terrorism as well

    A man that advocates equality of women and wants to ban the burqa would also be considered a 'radical' Islamist. In American we don't exactly think that person is a bad guy nor do we expect him to be flying planes into our buildings.

    Was there something wrong with the commonly accepted 'islamic extremist' Smith felt the need to move away from?
    Last edited by boytyperanma; 05-16-2010, 11:40 AM.

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    • #17
      Re: Fire the idiot

      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
      What Holder said was that he thinks the law is unconstitutional, and he made that comment without reading the law which BTW is only 17 pages. You would think he would at least skim through it before making stupid comments. The other thing he did in another deposition was about Islamic extremists.
      Would you mind providing a link that has Holder saying this? Franki's link has Holder expressly saying he has no opinion on the law because it has not been reviewed and he has not read it yet. He does say that once it is reviewed and he has read it he will provide an opinion.

      When asked by Poe how he could have constitutional concerns about a law he has not read, Holder said: "Well, what I've said is that I've not made up my mind. I've only made the comments that I've made on the basis of things that I've been able to glean by reading newspaper accounts, obviously, television, talking to people who are on the review panel...looking at the law."
      Link

      Holder's spokesman, Matthew Miller, said Friday that his boss "has been thoroughly briefed on the law, which has already been amended since the initial version passed, and has heard concerns from a range of law enforcement and community officials. He and the Department will continue to review it in detail to determine what options are available to the federal government."
      Link

      I agree that Holder doesn't have a very firm grasp on the politics of being the AG, but this is just a controversy being ginned up by the right wing talking machine on an otherwise slow news cycle. Holders comments are of no consequence.

      Once the AG has decided if the AZ law is in conflict with federal law then discussions based on the merit of the governments case can follow.

      What say you if Holder comes out and says that after careful review of the law he finds no conflict with federal law and the AZ law passes constitutional muster?

      Just as an aside, I discovered this wonderful bit of objective journalism in the Washington Post's article on the matter:

      "Poe, after helpfully pointing out that the 10-page law is "a lot shorter than" the Obama administration's health-care overhaul bill, said he couldn't understand "how you would have concerns about something being unconstitutional if you haven't even read the law."

      Can you spot the editorial?

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      • #18
        Re: Fire the idiot

        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
        I listened to the link Franki provided.

        According to the congressman, the law is ten pages, not seventeen.

        Holder repeatedly refused to offer an opinion.

        He did say that he expressed "concern" based on the reporting he had seen, read and heard. Like most of us.

        There is a difference between expressing a concern in an informal setting and issuing an opinion via press conference or press release. One is informal, the other is a formal declaration by the US department of justice.

        It's likely we will continue to disagree on this matter.
        I disagree! Just kidding. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, at least we are putting forth our opinions and listening. I find that occassionally in cases where we disagree, the passing of time and events does bring about a situation where there is a clear resolution of dfferences.

        Prior to the democrats and President Obama taking power, I was certain there would be significant changes in our government and country. I argued that point on this Forum frequently, now I am convinced democrats and republicans are very similar once in power. Government is still slow to act or change for the better, oblivious to the will of the people, and follows more the agenda of the party. This situation with Holder will become more clear with time.

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        • #19
          Re: Fire the idiot

          While there are some major differences between Obama and Bush, congress as currently configured is designed to protect incumbents.

          Kick out the lobbyists. They are funded by entities whose interests often run contrary to the citizens interests even though they us the front of what's good for them is good for their customers and/or American citizens.

          Is there any relationship between the shrinking middle class income and the increasing wealth gap in this country? Obama hasn't addressed this in any meaningful way. He is a capitalist first and foremost which suits the status quo just fine.

          The Holder 'scandal' just keeps keeps the lines that divide the citizens defined.

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          • #20
            Re: Fire the idiot

            But remember all these guys are supposed to be the brightest and best there is. Hand picked by Obama himself who according to Paul Begala is the smartest man to ever be elected president although they said the same thing about Bill and Hillery Clinton.
            sigpic

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            • #21
              Re: Fire the idiot

              I see little to no evidence to suggest Obama isn't the smartest man to hold office in modern times, with Clinton a close second.

              Obama clearly isn't the political equal of Bush or Reagan.

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              • #22
                Re: Fire the idiot

                Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                I see little to no evidence to suggest Obama isn't the smartest man to hold office in modern times, with Clinton a close second.

                Obama clearly isn't the political equal of Bush or Reagan.
                Don't we wish!
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Fire the idiot

                  Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                  I see little to no evidence to suggest Obama isn't the smartest man to hold office in modern times, with Clinton a close second.

                  Obama clearly isn't the political equal of Bush or Reagan.
                  How do you gauge "smart", IQ, education, or performance, results?
                  In my opinion Clinton did not behave like a smart person. Sex in the oval office, and charged with sexual abuse, is this the discipline and behavior of a smart person? Obama may be a brilliant speaker and educated man, but is he truly smart as a politician? Angering the majority of the voting public, (if that's what he did) is not a smart move. Smart for a politician is different than smart for a business person, or scholar.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Fire the idiot

                    One can have gone to the best colleges and still possess an ordinary intelligence. One can also not have attended the best colleges have have extraordinary intelligence.

                    But if someone possess extraordinary intelligence and attends the best colleges, that person will have a formidable mind.

                    Clinton was never charged with sex abuse. He was charged with perjury in a civil trial. Of course when you have a congress that has it in for the president and finances a years long investigation, they are bound to find something.

                    Clintons only crime in my opinion was settling for Monica. Geesh, Kennedy had Monroe. Monroe!

                    I am not impressed with Obama's political savvy.

                    I agree that politics and business require a different set of skills.

                    I don't think Obama's numbers are any worse than Reagan's after the first year. Matter of fact, Obama's numbers are pretty good. The numbers for congress are low as usual. But the congressional repubs are rated lower than the dems.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Fire the idiot

                      Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                      I don't think Obama's numbers are any worse than Reagan's after the first year. Matter of fact, Obama's numbers are pretty good. The numbers for congress are low as usual. But the congressional repubs are rated lower than the dems.
                      Reagan started with 51% and fell to 47% after his first year.

                      Obama started with 65% and fell to 48% after his first year.

                      I don't not see Obama going any lower as there are still people who get a quiver up their leg every time they see him. The number to watch is Obama has gone from a 44% strongly approve to a 28% strongly approve.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                      • #26
                        Re: Fire the idiot

                        I'll take wisdom over intelligence any day! Reagan had both! Bill had a good I.Q., not too much wisdom . That was proven!
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                        • #27
                          Re: Fire the idiot

                          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                          One can have gone to the best colleges and still possess an ordinary intelligence. One can also not have attended the best colleges have have extraordinary intelligence.

                          But if someone possess extraordinary intelligence and attends the best colleges, that person will have a formidable mind.

                          Clinton was never charged with sex abuse. He was charged with perjury in a civil trial. Of course when you have a congress that has it in for the president and finances a years long investigation, they are bound to find something.

                          Clintons only crime in my opinion was settling for Monica. Geesh, Kennedy had Monroe. Monroe!

                          I am not impressed with Obama's political savvy.

                          I agree that politics and business require a different set of skills.

                          I don't think Obama's numbers are any worse than Reagan's after the first year. Matter of fact, Obama's numbers are pretty good. The numbers for congress are low as usual. But the congressional repubs are rated lower than the dems.
                          I find what clinton did as beyond inappropriate for the leader of the free world. He may not have been convicted of sexual abuse, but I am convinced he did all those things and more. Regarding his "settling" for Monica, as the father of daughters I think she was seduced by an older man who represented the ultimate in status and power. I am sorely disappointed that hillary did not take a stand and speak out against this abusive cheat. I have no respect for him at all, because of his actions parents all over America had to explain what "oral sex" meant to their young children.

                          If clinton was unahppy in his marriage, I think he should have divorced hillary and started over as a single man. America does not like divorce and honesty, America would rather excuse his behavior and blame a young woman for his misdeeds. Disgusting and disgraceful.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Fire the idiot

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            I find what clinton did as beyond inappropriate for the leader of the free world. He may not have been convicted of sexual abuse, but I am convinced he did all those things and more. Regarding his "settling" for Monica, as the father of daughters I think she was seduced by an older man who represented the ultimate in status and power. I am sorely disappointed that hillary did not take a stand and speak out against this abusive cheat. I have no respect for him at all, because of his actions parents all over America had to explain what "oral sex" meant to their young children.

                            If clinton was unahppy in his marriage, I think he should have divorced hillary and started over as a single man. America does not like divorce and honesty, America would rather excuse his behavior and blame a young woman for his misdeeds. Disgusting and disgraceful.
                            I could not agree with you more Frank. If my 22-year old daughter fell to the power and celebrity of Clinton he would have a lot more to worry about other than being impeached. What I found astonishing was NOW turned against Flowers and Lewinsky even though their job was suppose to be about protecting women.

                            http://www.parentdish.com/2010/04/14...ask-your-kids/

                            So this is Clinton's legacy?

                            Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves. Theodore Roosevelt gave us the national park system.

                            Bill Clinton's presidential legacy? He convinced us that oral sex isn't really sex.

                            So many people -- especially young people -- believe this that researchers have given phenomenon a name: "The Clinton-Lewinsky Effect."

                            Jason D. Hans and his colleagues at the University of Kentucky in Lexington examine the Clinton-Lewinsky Effect in their report "Sex Redefined: The Reclassification of Oral-Genital Contact."

                            They surveyed undergraduate college students three years ago and found that less than 5 percent of them think oral sex counts as "having sex."

                            Web MD reports this is a big change from 1991 -- less than two years before Clinton took office, a similar survey found that 40 percent of college undergrads considered mouth-to-genital interaction as sex.

                            Researchers point to Clinton's famous statement: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."

                            "Like President Clinton, adolescents and young adults often interpret these words with a degree of latitude, depending on whether they want to maintain an image of being sexually experienced or inexperienced," Hans tells Web MD.

                            Hans adds abstinence-only education and sex education programs that concentrate on vaginal-penile intercourse also may be partly responsible.

                            The survey included 477 undergrads, mostly white heterosexual women, enrolled in a human sexuality class. The majority (98 percent) of participants were 24 or younger. The average age was 20.

                            Researchers are concerned because oral sex has become increasingly acceptable among young people in recent years. They might see it was a less risky.

                            However, Web MD reports, experts say oral-genital contact can lead to sexually transmitted diseases such as HIV, herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea and the human papillomavirus (linked to cervical cancer).

                            Hans tells Web MD he and his fellow researchers encourage sex educators to increase awareness about oral sex and how it can lead to the spread of STDs.

                            The full report will be published in the June 2010 issue of Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health.
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Fire the idiot

                              Wow, the reaction generated by the mere mention of Clinton is amazing. Amusing too.

                              According to Gallup, Reagan started at 57% then fell to 43%.

                              Obama averaged 57% in his first year too. And as of January this year was around 50%-51%.

                              Gallup


                              Of course Reagan did not have the banks crashing, two wars and huge unemployment facing him and a minority party who possessed an intent of historic proportions to derail everything he tried.
                              Last edited by SpiffPeters; 05-16-2010, 10:59 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Fire the idiot

                                Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                                Wow, the reaction generated by the mere mention of Clinton is amazing. Amusing too.

                                According to Gallup, Reagan started at 57% then fell to 43%.

                                Obama averaged 57% in his first year too. And as of January this year was around 50%-51%.

                                Gallup


                                Of course Reagan did not have the banks crashing, two wars and huge unemployment facing him and a minority party who possessed an intent of historic proportions to derail everything he tried.
                                Spiff, maybe you find it amusing because you can't fathom his betrayals of trust and seriousness of his actions? The wrong clinton did was far beyond and so little to do with sex of any kind. Young folks can down play oral sex as not really sex,but that doesn't make it so. Clinton could dance around the facts of what took place in the oval office and while he was govenor, but his manipulation of the english language and word games did not change the truth.

                                Spiff, are you amused by the female teacher having sex with the young male student, the priest having sex with a child? The similarity I draw between those examples and clinton is the abuse of power and trust people put in the man behind the title.

                                I don't regard regan as some miracle worker. Can you imagine how he would react to our debt to communist china? A democracy borrowing from a communist country, insane! How would regan deal with our economic situation and unemployment? We were in a mess before obama took office, funding wars, passing the democratic healthcare plan, and picking up where bush left off has not helped one bit in my opinion.

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