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  • #31
    Re: Fire the idiot

    What I find amusing is the indignation felt by the lynch mob. Of course the guys heading up the posse to get Clinton were just immoral and unfaithful, yet they had the gall to stand up there before all of America and condemn another man for the same weakness they have.

    The investigation started out on one matter but ended up going in a different direction. It was just a tax payer funded witch hunt. Political hard ball to the extreme. The repubs got NAFTA out of the deal, which was part of their plan. They also got welfare reform.

    As for me, if I had to choose between an Rhodes scholar womanizer or a legacy addled sociopath, well I think we know how that story ends.

    I think it's a stretch to lay the blame of moral decadence in todays youth on one man. But do share any evidence that Clinton's linguistic gymnastics is directly responsible for todays teenage sex rates and STD's.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Fire the idiot

      [QUOTE=SpiffPeters;296965]

      As for me, if I had to choose between an Rhodes scholar womanizer or a legacy addled sociopath, well I think we know how that story ends.

      Spiff, unfortunately many folks share your thought process and are quick to minimize and excuse the criminal behavior of such a man because he makes up for it in other ways, or is the lesser of two evils.

      Clinton may have been a champion for some such as you, and a rhodes scholar, but to the women he abused and young Monica who was seduced by his power then kicked to the curb, he was not a great man. I see him for his actions and poor behavior. I form my opinions as a husband who cares for his wife and father who cares for his daughters and my lesser of two evils would not be a man such as clinton, although that does not leave much of a choice remaining.

      Spiff, can you imagine your wife at the mercy of that pig? Can you possibly imagine how you would feel if your daughter was involved with such a abusive liar? You are right about one thing, they are both evil.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Fire the idiot

        What occurred between Clinton and Monica was consensual. She never filed charges against him. If she felt taken advantage of, then it was her responsibility to seek amends.

        As for my wife, if she were to stray it would be more a reflexion on my negligence as a husband than the power of an external source.

        If I had a daughter I would hoped that I raised her to know the difference between healthy relationships and unhealthy relationships. But once she is a legal adult she is free to make her own decisions, good or bad.

        My stepson has done very well for himself, but occasionally has made some decisions that perplexed me. But it's his life and he has to live it on his terms.

        Clinton wasn't a champion for me. He was one of the better republican presidents in recent memory. Fiscally conservative, signed NAFTA, signed Welfare reform, joined the WTO, balanced the budget and was setting the table to work down the debt.

        When he did try to go after Bin Laden the cry was "Bombs for Monica". And of course the liberal NY Times posted salacious headlines on a daily basis.

        The Clinton presidency was under siege from the first day. He wasn't going to leave office without wounds. Some self inflicted sure, but nothing like Iran-Contra. Yet Reagan is on the cusp of being sainted.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Fire the idiot

          I think we got off on this topic based on the assertion, “I see little to no evidence to suggest Obama isn't the smartest man to hold office in modern times, with Clinton a close second.”

          Huh? A lack of evidence to the contrary does not prove a point. For example, we can just as easily say that we see no evidence that Bozo wasn’t the world’s smartest person.

          Assertions about comparative intelligence in general make about as little sense. Intelligence is not a quality that expresses itself across the board. I know a seventeen year old that is a musical prodigy, but can’t pass high school algebra. In my world, I’ve seen people up close that were mathematical wizards, but couldn’t create a design, write a coherent sentence or even match their tie and shirt. And I’ve met people that could design brilliantly, but lacked the ability to balance their checkbook. That’s the reality of “intelligence”.

          The only measure that matters is accomplishment.

          I see very little positive accomplishment during Clinton’s 8 years. In my view, he has serious character deficiencies – not only in his sexual misadventures but also in his ability and willingness to lie to the American public. Despite being revered by many, I see scandal as the hallmark of his Presidency. Monica may have consented, but the abuse charge (more accurately, sexual harassment) was about Paula Jones. In any case, He certainly didn’t do anything to improve the balance of trade or to effectively reign in the financial institutions, address entitlements or nip terrorism in the bud. His (and Hillary’s) attempt at health care reform didn’t get off the ground. Much is made of Clinton being a Rhodes Scholar. Certainly accolades are a lot like being a Mensa member. I've known both and been unimpressed, and known other people that had no such esteemed titles yet were brilliant to the point of being intimidating.

          Reagan did quite a bit IMO. He wasn't the world's foremost authority on anything, but he was an exceptionally good manager, communicator and team builder. He was effective in dealing with the Soviets, and his economic policies made a quick improvement in the bleak situation he inherited from Carter. In retrospect, the Reagan team went much too far with deregulation and “trickle-down” economics, but IMO the problems with both of these is related to the fact that time the globalization situation was far, far less extensive than it became during the 1990s. He essentially spent the Eastern Block into the ground and drove them out of business. This was clearly a major expense but held the promise of reduced expenditures in the future by eliminating the other player in the arms race. Sadly, other threats rose to prominence after he left office.

          JFK didn’t accomplish much, either. Although, it should be said that he only had one partial term - not very long. A little research reveals that he wasn’t much of a student. His father, who more or less orchestrated his rise, actually planned for JFK’s older brother to carry the family flag to the White House, but the plan was changed when Joe was killed during the war. JFK won a Pulitzer for Profiles in Courage, which was actually ghost written by another…his speechwriter, Theodore Sorensen. Certainly accepting the prize for a book that he didn’t write would have to be considered a significant bit of dishonesty IMO. His liaison with Ms. Monroe was hardly Presidential behavior but at least he kept it more or less out of widespread public view, at least during his lifetime. Overall, JFK was not very impressive as other than a folk hero.

          I see Bush 43 as similar to Clinton in his willingness to lie to the American people. I find the Middle East war situation to be incredible in all respects. His ties to the religious right and the oil companies are disturbing. He did virtually nothing to strengthen the US economy, and during his two terms allowed us to be far too dependent on China. How he managed to be re-elected, since the WMD fiasco had been exposed at that point, is beyond me. All I can say is, clearly the alternative scared too many people.

          As for Obama, his perception managers are creating the image that he’s brilliant. From what I can tell, he is considered to have been a mediocre student at Columbia college, and the fact that he graduated without honors places his GPA at somewhere between 2.0 and 3.3. His actual transcripts, including his SAT and LSAT scores, are not, from what I can see, available to the public. Similarly, his transcripts at Harvard Law School are also sealed. He was president of the Harvard Law Review, clearly a prestigious position. However, he seems to have not published a single article himself. His election as president of the Law Review was perhaps his first political victory. He is claimed to have graduated MCL, but again, I find it interesting that his transcripts are sealed. Overall, there seems to be a general image that’s been built of the man as an intellectual, but the actual evidence is underwhelming and the fact that the information is being kept from public view makes me wonder what they’re hiding. I think that the fact that he rose very quickly to the White House, with relatively little experience in government, says that his strength is in fact in politics. Although, based on his fading popularity those pigeons may be coming home to roost. Academic performance aside, I fail to see any particular insight on any topic being displayed by Mr. Obama thus far, 1/3 of the way through his term. I do like the effort to regulate the banks (I have a very low opinion of the financial community) but personally think there is little chance that Obama will, in the end, succeed in any significant way. For one thing, all US federal politicians, including Presidents, are afraid of the Federal Reserve – and they are the largest part of the problem. But I hope he does succeed… this is far more necessary to the health of the Country than, say, HCR was.

          In short, we haven’t had a lot of great leaders in modern times. Obama isn’t proving to be one, either - and for my dollar isn't living up to his billing.
          Last edited by Andy_M; 05-17-2010, 12:14 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Fire the idiot

            Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
            What occurred between Clinton and Monica was consensual. She never filed charges against him. If she felt taken advantage of, then it was her responsibility to seek amends.

            As for my wife, if she were to stray it would be more a reflexion on my negligence as a husband than the power of an external source.

            If I had a daughter I would hoped that I raised her to know the difference between healthy relationships and unhealthy relationships. But once she is a legal adult she is free to make her own decisions, good or bad.

            My stepson has done very well for himself, but occasionally has made some decisions that perplexed me. But it's his life and he has to live it on his terms.

            Clinton wasn't a champion for me. He was one of the better republican presidents in recent memory. Fiscally conservative, signed NAFTA, signed Welfare reform, joined the WTO, balanced the budget and was setting the table to work down the debt.

            When he did try to go after Bin Laden the cry was "Bombs for Monica". And of course the liberal NY Times posted salacious headlines on a daily basis.

            The Clinton presidency was under siege from the first day. He wasn't going to leave office without wounds. Some self inflicted sure, but nothing like Iran-Contra. Yet Reagan is on the cusp of being sainted.
            Spiff, just because clinton did not rape Monica does not mean he did not control the relationship and seduce her. Don't forget he was a married man and our President at the time. I mentioned the "your wife" scenario, not as a what if she cheated but how would you feel if she is working in his office and he drops his pants or grabs her? He was the agressor, he was sexually abusive to these other women who did not comply with his actions.

            I talk to my daughters about such things and I think it's safe to say Monica was no fool, however it must be very different to be in that situation with such a trusted and powerful person.

            I think the good clinton did and NAFTA wasn't part of it, was neutralized by his disgraceful behavior.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Fire the idiot

              Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
              What occurred between Clinton and Monica was consensual. She never filed charges against him. If she felt taken advantage of, then it was her responsibility to seek amends.

              As for my wife, if she were to stray it would be more a reflexion on my negligence as a husband than the power of an external source.

              If I had a daughter I would hoped that I raised her to know the difference between healthy relationships and unhealthy relationships. But once she is a legal adult she is free to make her own decisions, good or bad.

              My stepson has done very well for himself, but occasionally has made some decisions that perplexed me. But it's his life and he has to live it on his terms.

              Clinton wasn't a champion for me. He was one of the better republican presidents in recent memory. Fiscally conservative, signed NAFTA, signed Welfare reform, joined the WTO, balanced the budget and was setting the table to work down the debt.

              When he did try to go after Bin Laden the cry was "Bombs for Monica". And of course the liberal NY Times posted salacious headlines on a daily basis.

              The Clinton presidency was under siege from the first day. He wasn't going to leave office without wounds. Some self inflicted sure, but nothing like Iran-Contra. Yet Reagan is on the cusp of being sainted.
              So a 22-year old Intern goes to Washington to find out how Washington works and instead is seduced by the Leader of the most powerful country in the World and that's her fault?
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Fire the idiot

                So a 22-year old Intern goes to Washington to find out how Washington works and instead is seduced by the Leader of the most powerful country in the World and that's her fault?
                Your words, not mine.

                The moral decay that surrounds us now is all Clinton's fault. Fine by me. Our enemies want to attack us because of Clinton. Wall Street ran us into the ground because of Clinton. The supreme court is full of activist judges because of Clinton.

                I get it. Blame Clinton.

                For the party of personal responsibility, I've never seen such a group so quick to blame others for the problems we face. This is the age of victimhood.

                Okay, Okay. Clinton single handely ruined this great nation that Reagan built.

                You win.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Fire the idiot

                  Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                  Your words, not mine.

                  The moral decay that surrounds us now is all Clinton's fault. Fine by me. Our enemies want to attack us because of Clinton. Wall Street ran us into the ground because of Clinton. The supreme court is full of activist judges because of Clinton.

                  I get it. Blame Clinton.

                  For the party of personal responsibility, I've never seen such a group so quick to blame others for the problems we face. This is the age of victimhood.

                  Okay, Okay. Clinton single handely ruined this great nation that Reagan built.

                  You win.
                  Wow, you seem to add a defence to a lot of stuff I never posted. The bottom line is Clinton was 27-years her senior and the most powerful man in the Country. Monica was an Intern employed by the Government and Clinton abused his power over her. Not only that but then he stood up in front of the Nation and lied to us.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Fire the idiot

                    Mark, my previous post was not just to you.

                    I'd forgotten how red the meat is when one mentions Clinton.

                    If Clinton told Monica to put a gun to Hillary head and pull the trigger, who would be at fault? What if he told Monica to jump off a bridge? At what point does Monica become responsible for her own actions?

                    Besides, it wasn't about the action between two consenting adults. It was about lying to a grand jury in a civil case that frankly should have never even been pursued. It had nothing to do with Whitewater, Vince Foster or Travelgate. But like I said, the whole game was to clip Clinton's wings from day one.

                    You can cry foul all you want about the president lying. I did not hear anyone crying foul when Bush lied to us on matters much more severe.

                    They hypocrisy of the argument is the pale.

                    But I know, it's all Clinton's fault. Poor little Monica didn't stand a chance.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Fire the idiot

                      Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                      Okay, Okay. Clinton single handely ruined this great nation that Reagan built.
                      Reagan didn't build this great nation. That honor goes to folks like Jefferson et al. What Reagan did was take decent, though not perfect, care of the basics those *truly* brilliant men laid out.

                      No one said Clinton ruined the country. But he sure embarassed it (that would be us) and as far as I can tell didn't do much that's made a positive difference.

                      Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                      I did not hear anyone crying foul when Bush lied to us on matters much more severe.
                      Then you haven't been listening.

                      Bush ended his presidency as one of the most unpopular Presidents in history.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Fire the idiot

                        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                        Your words, not mine.

                        The moral decay that surrounds us now is all Clinton's fault. Fine by me. Our enemies want to attack us because of Clinton. Wall Street ran us into the ground because of Clinton. The supreme court is full of activist judges because of Clinton.

                        I get it. Blame Clinton.

                        For the party of personal responsibility, I've never seen such a group so quick to blame others for the problems we face. This is the age of victimhood.

                        Okay, Okay. Clinton single handely ruined this great nation that Reagan built.

                        You win.
                        My last post on this discussion. Clinton is not responsible for "the moral decay that surrounds us", but he sure as hell is responsible for his actions while govenor, President, as a married man and father. He does not get to skate because you or anyone else thinks he did a good job as President, or becuae he is the lesser of the evils. Lastly, if he had coached Monica into doing anything criminal I would hold them both responsible.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Fire the idiot

                          Wrong title. Should read: "Fire The Idiots"

                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Fire the idiot

                            Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                            Mark, my previous post was not just to you.

                            I'd forgotten how red the meat is when one mentions Clinton.

                            If Clinton told Monica to put a gun to Hillary head and pull the trigger, who would be at fault? What if he told Monica to jump off a bridge? At what point does Monica become responsible for her own actions?

                            Besides, it wasn't about the action between two consenting adults. It was about lying to a grand jury in a civil case that frankly should have never even been pursued. It had nothing to do with Whitewater, Vince Foster or Travelgate. But like I said, the whole game was to clip Clinton's wings from day one.

                            You can cry foul all you want about the president lying. I did not hear anyone crying foul when Bush lied to us on matters much more severe.

                            They hypocrisy of the argument is the pale.

                            But I know, it's all Clinton's fault. Poor little Monica didn't stand a chance.
                            Funny I actually considered Clinton a fairly decent President. I'm not excusing Monica for her behavior but I am holding the President to a higher standard. Clinton received his due for his lies, I happened to take it personal because I believed him.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Fire the idiot

                              Link: That's okay, the government doesn't trust it's citizens either.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Fire the idiot

                                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                                Funny I actually considered Clinton a fairly decent President. I'm not excusing Monica for her behavior but I am holding the President to a higher standard. Clinton received his due for his lies, I happened to take it personal because I believed him.

                                Mark
                                Dues? He wound up being a millionaire with his own library.
                                sigpic

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