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  • Libertarianism meets liberalism

    This to me was one of the more fun interviews in the news recently

    Liberal Rachel Madow calls into question one of Rand Paul's libertarian ideals. Interesting political fall out ensues

    Myself I cling to Libertarian ideals. I like Ron Paul a lot as he embraces those ideals even to his own detriment. Rand Paul is similar but hasn't quite drunk the same cool aide his father has. He picks and chooses when to embrace the ideology, sometimes I think its at random, he can be truly bazaar and unpredictable in that aspect.

    In a perfect world where if the majority of people embraced libertarianism Rand Paul would be right on point in the interview. I unlike him believe our society is not perfect, in some areas it is deeply flawed. With that understanding I stray from Libertarian philosophy, some problems simply won't work themselves out without government intervention. I'd really prefer they do, but understand even if they will at some point in the future it is not worth the desperately it will cause people in the process

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3O2r...=ytn%3Amptnews


    What are your thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

    Randy Paul is plain nuts, just like pops.

    Libertarian my butt!! What's their stance on abortion?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

      I think the more complicated we are as people, and the more complicated our political views are, the more impossible it becomes to find a single candidate or party that embodies our beliefs.

      I firmly believe in a woman's right to abortion, but I hate that abortion is used in place of birth control. I have not found my opinons expressed by liberals, conseravtives or moderates exclusively. I'm just plain out of luck, and in my opinion so is this country.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

        sorry I thought I'd posted both halves of the interview, here is the second half.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqAAf...eature=related


        Originally posted by James P View Post
        Randy Paul is plain nuts, just like pops.

        Libertarian my butt!! What's their stance on abortion?
        I'll certainly give you they are nuts. As examples of libertarianism in mainstream politics they are it.

        Libertarianism isn't actually popular in the country because many of the concepts are unpalatable. It is sold as if its something Americans actually want when that couldn't be further from the truth. Something the youth in the movement fail to understand until they start the walk the walk.

        Ron Paul takes the actual libertarian approach on abortion which is the government shouldn't be involved. His voting record tends to reflect that. His personal opinions have been pro-life.

        Rand Paul dropped libertarian ideals and thinks pro-life should be enforced by the government. Which in this interview makes his character quite an issue.

        It is pretty hard to be politically viable to believe both the government should step in and tell women what they can and can not do while at the same time say government should do nothing to tell businesses discrimination is wrong. Why is he willing to drop his ideals for one issue and not another.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

          Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
          sorry I thought I'd posted both halves of the interview, here is the second half.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqAAf...eature=related




          I'll certainly give you they are nuts. As examples of libertarianism in mainstream politics they are it.

          Libertarianism isn't actually popular in the country because many of the concepts are unpalatable. It is sold as if its something Americans actually want when that couldn't be further from the truth. Something the youth in the movement fail to understand until they start the walk the walk.

          Ron Paul takes the actual libertarian approach on abortion which is the government shouldn't be involved. His voting record tends to reflect that. His personal opinions have been pro-life.

          Rand Paul dropped libertarian ideals and thinks pro-life should be enforced by the government. Which in this interview makes his character quite an issue.

          It is pretty hard to be politically viable to believe both the government should step in and tell women what they can and can not do while at the same time say government should do nothing to tell businesses discrimination is wrong. Why is he willing to drop his ideals for one issue and not another.
          He is playing to a select audience. His beliefs are not in conflict according to his thinking and that of those who support him. Perfectly fine to lord over women who hold no positions of power in the church, while at the same time giving racist business folks a pass. Makes perfect sense to some.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            I think the more complicated we are as people, and the more complicated our political views are, the more impossible it becomes to find a single candidate or party that embodies our beliefs.

            I firmly believe in a woman's right to abortion, but I hate that abortion is used in place of birth control. I have not found my opinons expressed by liberals, conseravtives or moderates exclusively. I'm just plain out of luck, and in my opinion so is this country.
            The end result of democracy is nobody actually gets what they want. Everyone gets represented and the result is a compromise of those beliefs. No one is truly happy in the long term, but no one so upset we need to through out the system.

            I like people who hold the extreme views in our debate. After watching that interview I was kind left questioning that, I concluded I still like Ron Paul holding his positions and the House is probably the only place I'd be comfortable letting him be. Now that Rand is up for a senate seat I'm left questioning if that is a good thing.

            The house is structured debate and numerically represented. If someone wants to go on a tirade against civil rights legislation they only get so much time to do it and they need to convince a vast number of people to go along with their proposal.

            The senate is a different animal someone with Rand's extreme views can easily hold hostage the body with unlimited debate. And the strength of his vote is much greater then the actual number of people who share that opinion.

            While I support crazy views I think the house is a much safer place to keep them. I'll stick to boring people in the senate thanks.
            Last edited by boytyperanma; 05-21-2010, 08:17 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

              I stopped reading at "MSNBC"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

                Racheal Maddow is not a 'gotcha' type of interviewer. She asked Paul a question and he refused to answer it. Today he is out there saying that of course he wouldn't repeal the civil rights act. Which of course was never asked of him.

                I agree that libertarians are a better fit in the house, where it tends to get rowdy and as such the rules take this into allowance. The senate is a whole different beast.

                It will be interesting to see what happens in Kentucky. No political philosophy is able to exist without compromise. Sure, in a perfect world each philosophy may perform well, but then politics is really the art of compromise.

                I do agree with several of the Libertarians ideals. But pure libertarianism scares me as much as undiluted liberalism or conservatism.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

                  Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
                  It is pretty hard to be politically viable to believe both the government should step in and tell women what they can and can not do while at the same time say government should do nothing to tell businesses discrimination is wrong. Why is he willing to drop his ideals for one issue and not another.
                  The reason is because you have different assumptions when you are evaluating the positions ideological consistency.

                  If you believe that a fetus is a live human being; then it deserves the rights of other live human beings. Although libertarians believe in limited government, I do believe that most of them would believe that a legitimate function of government is to protect people from violence at the hands of other people. As such, protecting the fetus from violence is perfectly consistent with libertarian principles; just as protecting children from infanticide is consistent with libertarian principles.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

                    Originally posted by cpw View Post
                    The reason is because you have different assumptions when you are evaluating the positions ideological consistency.

                    If you believe that a fetus is a live human being; then it deserves the rights of other live human beings. Although libertarians believe in limited government, I do believe that most of them would believe that a legitimate function of government is to protect people from violence at the hands of other people. As such, protecting the fetus from violence is perfectly consistent with libertarian principles; just as protecting children from infanticide is consistent with libertarian principles.
                    I believe their assumptions and ideology is bolstered by the fact that at least in the case of the men, they can't get pregnant and won't be burdened with caring for a child possibly on their own. IF they are so concerned about protecting children, and rights, then they should fight for a better society overall. They should push for better access to birth control and family planning, greater responsibility for men who get women pregnant. Sorry to rant this is a real sore spot for me. No one is there when a child is born to a couple or single parent who did not want to have the child, care for it or love it! Right to life should not end with preventing and abortion in my opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Libertarianism meets liberalism

                      Right to life should not end with preventing and abortion in my opinion.
                      Nail on the head!

                      Love the fetus, hate the child. Until they are old enough to go fight a war somewhere.

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