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  • Bp fix ,to plug oil.

    My idea to plug the Hole. Pour reinforced concrete cone on a barge. It would be in the shape of an Ice creme cone with 2 lifting embeds it the top. Top diameter 20' x 60' tall. Once the cameras show the point is in the hole, It is raised and lowered in a pile driving motion.
    It's weight would settle it in. Can You tell I was a member of local 34 Oakland Pile drivers!
    Don.t like this? We're all ears, lets hear some ideas.
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

  • #2
    Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

    Get some real big air handlers...pump air to the leak and light it.Burn it off

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

      How about put a valve on a pipe that would slip over or into the end of the broken pipe, slide it on with the valve in the open position, secure it, then close the valve?
      www.ClinkscalesSeptic.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

        I called them and made the suggestion,

        on the top kill method,
        if you would inject liquid nitrogen alos into the blow off preventer, like they did with the mud,
        inject the nitrogen with the mud, and then freeze it in the out going pipe, and then pump the mud down into the hole, and then cement it,

        I would think the liquid nitrogen would either thicken the mud and oil to a solid to plug the top part of the pipe, and stop the leak temporary to get the mud down into the hole, to back pressure the up coming oils,

        I realize that the oil is under great pressure, but the problem with the fist containment box, was simply the gas coming off of it expanded cooling and freezing the water and plugging up the pipe to the surface, is what I read, or heard.
        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
        attributed to Samuel Johnson
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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        • #5
          Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9A36A3GTcY


          Nice bit of deja vu in this vid re: containment methods.

          "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

          Hurricane season starts today..........
          I'm on "The List" and I love it!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

            It is not a vertical pipe at the moment. The pipe comes out of the blow out preventor goes up shortly and bends over to rest horizontally on the ocean floor. It ended that way as result of the rig sinking and the casing between the rig and the ocean floor toppling.

            They'd been trying options that don't require changing that. As it is literally bent over they've felt that added friction loss has been reducing the flow out of the well. With the test result of the top kill BP is arguing that it is not reducing flow.

            Another argument for not cutting the pipe of so it is vertical thus far is once they do that visibility around the blow out preventor will be obscured. Everything they do is entirely dependent on being able to see through cameras obscuring the view is very problematic.

            Next up however they are going to try and cut the pipe off. With luck they can cut it off even. Once again only being able to work with remote vehicles makes accuracy difficult. Also the strength of such vehicles has its limits. The couldn't for example spin a giant pipe cutter. They use grinding wheels. We get to wait and see.

            Provided cutting the pipe off goes well they have a selection of other options like those suggested here. Like putting another valve on, sticking a plug in it or putting a cap over it.

            As the video above points out however the only method that works with any regularity is drilling a relief well. For this blow out they estimated the relief well would take 3 months. In that time we'll have another Exxon Valdez in the gulf before this mess is over. We've gotten better expediently at making messes.

            Smarter and better regulated countries(like Canada) understand blows out can happen and the only technology proven to work are relief wells, they require a relief well be drilled simultaneously to the working well that way in case of a disaster like this, they can have the relief well done in a matter of days rather then months.

            Maybe if we stopped letting companies run our government and write their own rules we'd have better ones in place.
            Last edited by boytyperanma; 06-01-2010, 05:58 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

              In the grand scheme of things, a blow out of this magnitude is extremely rare. But that is no excuse for not making sure that there is a way to prevent this from happening.

              Keep this in mind; the oil that is now polluting our shores and killing the marine life was going to be sold on the international market. It's likely that most of this oil wasn't even going to be used in America.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

                Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                In the grand scheme of things, a blow out of this magnitude is extremely rare. But that is no excuse for not making sure that there is a way to prevent this from happening.
                Sure they have been rare but our appetite for oil just keeps going up. They become less and less rare. If the rules stay the same it is inevitable these things will become common

                Keep this in mind; the oil that is now polluting our shores and killing the marine life was going to be sold on the international market. It's likely that most of this oil wasn't even going to be used in America.
                I don't know how accurate that statement is. I've read of laws requiring companies to prioritize sales of resources mined in the US, for sales to the US. IE we only sell to other countries if the US market doesn't want it. We want that oil.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

                  I don't know if others saw the interview on 60 minutes with one of the survivors of the Deep Water Horizon destruction. He explains that the blow out preventer was damaged and this was brought to the BP/TransOcean officials attention but they said to drive on.

                  Here's the video if anyone's interested. Also a supposed live feed of what's going on at the top.

                  http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...g;mostpopvideo

                  J.C.
                  Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 06-01-2010, 09:22 PM. Reason: Dumb, de, dumb, dumb....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

                    What a mess! I agree that better steps to reduce a repeat of this are necessary and will no doubt become a standard, however if folks think such a disaster can be totally prevented I think they are sadly mistaken. The variables involved are in my opinion greater than any failsafes man can impliment at this time. We must accept that if we allow drilling in our costal waters, accidents will happen and our marine life,wild life, vegetation, waters, and economy will suffer.

                    I think given the failed attempts to bandaid the broken pieces at the bottom, it might be worth a shot to rip out whatever is there right to the bare ocean floor and sink another casing, valve and or cap. Stop trying to retrofit what is broken, and get something new, and strong you can work with in place. But I figure they already thought of that and would rather play with all the broken mess. We are all going to pay a steep price for allowing our life's distrations to result in such damage to our environment. We are all full of ideas and concern now, but where were we before the disaster?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

                      They've got some sort of "Jaws of Doom" in position.

                      http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_inte...ov_stream.html

                      J.C.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

                        Appears they are cutting the pipe right now.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

                          It's mesmerizing to me. Like watching a lava lamp. I catch myself rooting for them as they go around it contemplating their next move.

                          This is the first time I've taken a good look at it. I now know why this is such a mess. From a plumbers perspective, they have a broken pipe that's ovaled very near, if not right next to the connection. Then I'm not sure there are tools to remove that flange down there.

                          I've read the exerted pressure from the ocean is around 2,000 psi. And it's freezing cold. That makes tools & materials do strange things.

                          On top of that you have fluid gushing at God only knows what static pressure. Enough to overcome the oceans pressure above it.

                          Cut the top flush to get the truest circle possible and start ramming concrete plugs in?

                          Concrete pump with Hydraulic cement? Probably would react with the oil & gas and not work.

                          Maybe an explosion-closure of some sort would have to be done.

                          Just a mess.

                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

                            Some interesting "Fix" suggestions, but also some more just "crabbing" too. It would be nice perhaps, if we could for the moment leave the why's out of this particular thread and just focus on suggestions for a fix. I'm sure with the many experienced and creative forum members we could probably come up with some interesting ideas.

                            I heard a "spokesman" for one of the science foundations say on NPR about a week ago, that some of the best suggestions are coming from the public, some as young as fifth graders, in a NJ science class.

                            I've been trying to think of things I've run into in the past, but this situation is way beyond anything I've ever illustrated or written about in my career. This last method ("top kill") of pushing a mud mix of concrete into the gusher, was on a very minute scale, sort of like turning on both faucets at the kitchen sink and then trying to stop the flow by stuffing pudding into the spigot. All "top kill" did, much like a kitchen sink, was to have a lot of "mud" splattered all over the bottom.

                            I would think that Trent's idea would be a very logical one, but the conditions of the pipe, depth, pressure, temperature, etc., may not allow for it... but who really knows. That kind of a fix is usually a good step on a surface well when a valve fails or blows out... but of course there are a lot of unknowns with this specific situation.

                            One of the dumbest ideas (at least dumb to me) I've heard to date was some guy calling into NPR's "Science Friday" and suggesting that the Navy could easily fix it, by firing a nuclear missile into the well head and thus sealing it over forever... or in my mind, totally opening up the entire deposit to the Gulf.

                            We have a lot of members here with great and varied experience. But, it would be nice if we had some idea of the real conditions at the scene... for instance, I've heard that the oil pressure at the break is as much as 27,000 psi and that the temperature at that depth is sub-zero. Also, it isn't just oil that is escaping, but also natural gas; which definitely adds some hazard to the equation. So to start with, does anyone know the specifics of the conditions at the point of the gusher (it's certainly NOT a "leak" at this point). Perhaps knowing some specifics would give us some point of focus and creativity in our suggestions.

                            CWS

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                            • #15
                              Re: Bp fix ,to plug oil.

                              I'm not sure what the pressure is the numbers on that seem all over the map. 5000psi-30000psi. Those ranges are beyond most peoples comprehension. While the problem seems simple in concept it's just not math that most people can get through their heads. You run 1/10 those pressures though anything people are familiar with it explodes.

                              The pipe below the blow out preventor bursting is a real issue. If they manage to break that, things become even more hopeless. If the capping isn't controlled the surge could blow it apart, so methods that may sound appealing and instantly stop it are counter intuitive.

                              Another unknown and frustrating factor with BP is their records show they ran out of heavy casing. They decided to substitute a light gauge pipe. It isn't clear when that occurred and where it was used. If it was above the blow out preventor it's meaningless now, but if it was used as well casing it makes everything even more delicate.

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