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Day 48 In The Gulf..........

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  • Day 48 In The Gulf..........

    So it's Day 48 of the worst environmental disaster ever, and BP is patting themselves on the back because their new "hat" is supposedly capturing 30 percent of the oil from the ruptured pipe.

    Ohh.....right........the other 70 percent is still going out into the sea. Along with the million barrels worth that already gushed out.

    Why isn't the US government shutting down BP and taking over this operation?

    Why is Obama no better than the(in bed with Big Oil) Republicans he said he was better than? How much was in his briefcase of cash??

    Change you can believe in? How about "more of the same you can believe in"? The guy is obviously nothing more than a sound bite in a nice suit.

    Democrat, Republican, Independent - doesn't seem to matter. The government is in bed with the oil companies and Haliburton.

    Many will go bankrupt over this, many will make a fortune off this disaster.

    48 Days of crud. Effects that will be going on for the next 50 years or more. Communities devastated, families devastated, Florida, Carolina, Europe, etc.

    I was watching CNN the other night and it showed a pelican drenched in oil that had arrived at a facility that was cleaning wildlife. The pelican was standing in the corner of this container, almost like it was ashamed to be in the state it was in.

    I started choking up looking at this pelican. If anybody should be ashamed, it's certainly not some poor bird.

    It's almost Shakespearean in it's tragic comedy. I watch the news and I shake my head in chuckling disbelief. The next minute I'm enraged.

    A TRILLION dollars spent on unwinnable foreign wars(Iraq and Afghanistan), and this is allowed to happen on your home soil?????

    The heart breaks and the soul weeps in agony.............
    I'm on "The List" and I love it!!

  • #2
    Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

    Every day I look at this situation and wonder what in the heck is going on. It seems a response to a National disaster is the responsibility of the Government. We can argue all day whose fault it is or who should pay for it but we need to be working on it at the same time.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

      NOT the biggest environmental disaster ever: Mexico had one that leaked 9 months. Just went out on the Gulf stream, so didn't affect the US. Volcanoes have a lot more impact than oil leaks. On a scale of 1 - 10, this is at worst a 1.5 as to world impact.

      And the government has the expertise to do what? They are good at regulating, poor on enforcement, and totally ignorant of what it takes to drill for oil a mile below the surface.

      Obama just sees this as a crisis that is too good to not take the opportunity to show his ignorance of what it takes to really supply the world with the needs of energy.

      As for the trillion dollars, we rich taxpayers in the US are basking in our ill-gotten gains, so it means nothing to him that it will take more of our income. He wanted to have an excuse to get more of it anyway.

      Pelicans die every day. So do fish. With the oil, more algae will grow, less fish, species will change and adapt, and the earth will still go on. As for mankind, that remains to be seen.

      Didn't answer all the questions, but gave it a shot.

      Go
      Last edited by Gofor; 06-05-2010, 09:45 PM.
      Practicing at practical wood working

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

        While I understand all the excitement and some irrational questions.... but what exactly does one expect of the U.S. Government, Obama, Congress, or the U.S. Coast Guard and the Navy?

        What exactly would you do, if you had the power?

        Right now, BP is the best equipped and experienced. Certainly much mor so than the U.S. Government. So, if you were "King" what steps would you take?.... perhaps just fire BP and tell them to get the he!! out of the Gulf, take their managers and equipment and go back to the UK?

        That's probably what they wish we would do... alleviate them of all the responsibility!

        So maybe after firing them, you could just start looking around to see if there was anyone else who had a clue or the equipment to deal with it.

        From day 1, we've all heard lot's of wild-eyed exclanations about having the government take over the operation, even "let the Navy handle it". Well I have all the faith in the world that our Navy is more than capable of intercepting and destroying almost any sizeable force.... but they have little to no experience with tapping or shutting off a 27,000 psi oil gusher that is 5,000 feet down. I'm sure they and the rest of the world is working on some solution... but until they have one, we need to keep the company with the experience and the equipment on the job!

        CWS

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

          Obama could have dove to the bottom of the gulf and plug the leak on the first day and he would have been accused of showing off. Then they would try to impeach him. Huckabee accused Obama of attending a Paul McCartney concert the other night while the BP leak continued. Obviously he Huckabee was pandering to the low information righties. The fact of the matter is that the Jonas Brothers, Faith Hill, Elvis Costello, Emmylou Harris, Jack White and Dave Grohl performed at the tribute event for Paul McCartney at the White Houseafter he received Gershwin Prize for the Library of Congress.

          So I'm guessing that this was an event that had been planed for a while and since Obama was in town, why not proceed with the event? It's unfortunate that the last president allowed the worst terrorist attack on our country, was able to start two wars, did not end his vacation early and attended a political fund raiser days after Katrina and people were still dying in NO. One third of his term was spent on vacation. Obama spends a couple of hours in an evening at the White House and he's accused of lolly gagging. Amazing.

          So the government federalizes the disaster scene. Then what? Give another cost plus contract to Haliburton? Hire BP to come in a plug the leak? Hire someone else to come in and plug the leak? Just who does have the expertise to drill a mile below the surface? Apparently BP doesn't.

          Just what exactly is the government suppose to do?

          Perhaps if our National Guard units were dispatched overseas we could bring them and their equipment into the region.

          I say the blame belongs squarely on BP specifically, and the oil industry as a whole.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

            Not trying to make lite of this but no one seems to ask why the oil companies are out in the ocean drilling a mile under water. The environmentalists have kept them from drilling on land so they have to go out further into the ocean. Up here they are trying to make the oil sands out to be the biggest polluter in the world. There are so many that do not have a clue how their life would be effected if the oil industry was to collapse like the left wants.

            The Gulf region will be decimated 10 times over if Obama shuts the rest of those rigs down as they will go to Africa.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

              Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
              While I understand all the excitement and some irrational questions.... but what exactly does one expect of the U.S. Government, Obama, Congress, or the U.S. Coast Guard and the Navy?

              What exactly would you do, if you had the power?

              Right now, BP is the best equipped and experienced. Certainly much mor so than the U.S. Government. So, if you were "King" what steps would you take?.... perhaps just fire BP and tell them to get the he!! out of the Gulf, take their managers and equipment and go back to the UK?

              That's probably what they wish we would do... alleviate them of all the responsibility!

              So maybe after firing them, you could just start looking around to see if there was anyone else who had a clue or the equipment to deal with it.

              From day 1, we've all heard lot's of wild-eyed exclanations about having the government take over the operation, even "let the Navy handle it". Well I have all the faith in the world that our Navy is more than capable of intercepting and destroying almost any sizeable force.... but they have little to no experience with tapping or shutting off a 27,000 psi oil gusher that is 5,000 feet down. I'm sure they and the rest of the world is working on some solution... but until they have one, we need to keep the company with the experience and the equipment on the job!

              CWS
              I would expect the Federal Government to do what I suggested 45-days ago. The containment booms have taken too long and are too few. The sand berms to protect the coastline should have been started on day one not have the local government still begging for them a month into the spill.

              BP is one of the few who have the expertise and equipment to handle the under water stuff but the over-sight of what they were doing was lacking in the beginning.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

                I think that within a week or so bp and our government experts, should have had a better idea of the damage and a better, working plan to fix the leak. To say bp has all the expertise and equipment might be acceptable for the first few days, after that it's time to think outside the box(leak) and start fabricating , building, preparing a fix. I refuse to believe it could not be stopped weeks ago.

                You and I don't need to have the answers, there are folks who are experts in deep sea mechanics beyond the folks at bp. The cement dome became buoyant, so why not sink a frame work of steel and keep piling more and more steel on top? I don't believe that it can't be buried under enough weight. Why not try to crush it instead of toying around against all that pressure and flow?

                Why are they not using some sort of models to replicate a solution? I know they can't duplicate all of those real life conditions, but they would have a better idea what would work if done on a small scale just using water, dye and common sense. Experts get results!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

                  The US government is as quilty as BP for not having the regulations in place before they started drilling its always after the event that they worry I think I read in another thread that a relief well had to be drilled at the same time as the main well off Canada and it that is the case why not off the US.
                  No there is just to much money involved and their thought is it is better in my pocket than in protecting nature.
                  I saw a Pelican in a newspaper today totally covered in oil and it made me sick and angry at the suffering it was going through because of our disreguard for nature and thinking that we humans can do whatever we like well we carn't.

                  Tony

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

                    We all know Mexico had a bigger leak in 79 right. It was handled as this will be handled and I have been praying way sooner than later. I hate seeing the pelicans covered in oil. I also hate seeing all the dead deer along the side of the road hit by cars. The trouble is I like driving my car. as I'm sure we all do. oh by the way I have small oil wells about a .5 a mile behind my house. I like to drive I don't mind drilling in my back yard.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

                      Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                      We all know Mexico had a bigger leak in 79 right. It was handled as this will be handled and I have been praying way sooner than later. I hate seeing the pelicans covered in oil. I also hate seeing all the dead deer along the side of the road hit by cars. The trouble is I like driving my car. as I'm sure we all do. oh by the way I have small oil wells about a .5 a mile behind my house. I like to drive I don't mind drilling in my back yard.
                      I don't know which pundit(s) is spreading the untruth of the Mexico oil spill of 79, but here are some facts about that particular spill:

                      The spill started on June 3, 1979 and ended on March 23, 1980. Almost ten months. The flow rate was minuscule compared to this leak.

                      140 million gallons of crude were spilled over the course of almost ten months.

                      The flow rate of the Mexico oil spill was 491,228 gallons per day.

                      The Deep Horizon spill is estimated to be anywhere between 500,000 to 4.2 million gallons per day.

                      If the Mexico spill was so much worse than the BP spill, what was done for the US gulf coast economies that were decimated and the environmental damage to the wetlands that protect NO?

                      Mark - The booms are ineffective. Even if BP had not spread dispersant's the booms would have been relatively ineffective. As for sand berms, I agree they should have been approved sooner. But that doesn't mean that the government should not at least make a preliminary determination as to whether or not they would simply exacerbate the situation in the long term.

                      And lest we forget, BP's own documents claimed that they were able to handle a spill 50 times the size of this.

                      Everyone wants government regulation after a disaster or accident. But there is a very distinct, vocal minority that doesn't want the government overseeing anything. This particular group has been strangely quiet for the past month and a half.

                      As for the environmentalists forcing oil rigs to drill so far off shore, that is simply a strawman argument. The oil companies hold millions of acres of oil leases. They are drilling a mile down in the ocean because they can still make insane profits.

                      As for tar sands in Canada, my understanding is that process requires huge amounts of fresh water and that unless gas is selling in excess of $5 per gallon, the process is not economically viable.

                      We need to fundamentally change our energy infrastructure. But people will have to want to change in order to change to occur. So far we've all been criticizing one man for not changing anything despite the fact that many have dug in and engaged in outright warfare against anything he has tried to change.

                      It's desirable to say no when you have a tactical advantage by doing so. Of course the repubs haven't exactly given themselves any room whatsoever to negotiate with him. You can't call him a nazi, marxist, communist or socialist one day and then be seen bartering a deal the next. The 22 Percenters will tan your political hide.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

                        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                        I don't know which pundit(s) is spreading the untruth of the Mexico oil spill of 79, but here are some facts about that particular spill:

                        The spill started on June 3, 1979 and ended on March 23, 1980. Almost ten months. The flow rate was minuscule compared to this leak.

                        140 million gallons of crude were spilled over the course of almost ten months.

                        The flow rate of the Mexico oil spill was 491,228 gallons per day.

                        The Deep Horizon spill is estimated to be anywhere between 500,000 to 4.2 million gallons per day.

                        If the Mexico spill was so much worse than the BP spill, what was done for the US gulf coast economies that were decimated and the environmental damage to the wetlands that protect NO?

                        Mark - The booms are ineffective. Even if BP had not spread dispersant's the booms would have been relatively ineffective. As for sand berms, I agree they should have been approved sooner. But that doesn't mean that the government should not at least make a preliminary determination as to whether or not they would simply exacerbate the situation in the long term.

                        And lest we forget, BP's own documents claimed that they were able to handle a spill 50 times the size of this.

                        Everyone wants government regulation after a disaster or accident. But there is a very distinct, vocal minority that doesn't want the government overseeing anything. This particular group has been strangely quiet for the past month and a half.

                        As for the environmentalists forcing oil rigs to drill so far off shore, that is simply a strawman argument. The oil companies hold millions of acres of oil leases. They are drilling a mile down in the ocean because they can still make insane profits.

                        As for tar sands in Canada, my understanding is that process requires huge amounts of fresh water and that unless gas is selling in excess of $5 per gallon, the process is not economically viable.

                        We need to fundamentally change our energy infrastructure. But people will have to want to change in order to change to occur. So far we've all been criticizing one man for not changing anything despite the fact that many have dug in and engaged in outright warfare against anything he has tried to change.

                        It's desirable to say no when you have a tactical advantage by doing so. Of course the repubs haven't exactly given themselves any room whatsoever to negotiate with him. You can't call him a nazi, marxist, communist or socialist one day and then be seen bartering a deal the next. The 22 Percenters will tan your political hide.
                        Containment booms are not meant to eliminate oil they are meant to slow the oil down and contain what they can so the skimmers can collect as much as possible. They are not fool proof and can fail so they need to install layers of booms.

                        My son flies over this stuff daily transporting Government Inspectors and can see where the booms have been successful and where they have not. The big problem now is the manufacturers cannot even find the material to build more booms. With a little foresight this could have been addressed a month ago.

                        As for Government oversight I don't believe I have ever heard anyone say they did not want the Government to oversee a disaster of National proportion. That is after all what the Government is suppose to be focused on. Instead they want to focus on individual rights which they have no business in.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

                          While I'm NOT there on the gulf coast to see any of this first hand (I guess I'm almost as neglectful as the government), you can pretty much see from all the video that the booms are not very efficient at curbing the tide of oil. Looking at the infrared footage that was shot, you could see that the pollution is not restricted by the booms. The oil appears to be very thick and therefore heavy, not totally coming to the surface...so much of it simply flows under the booms.

                          As far as providing dikes (or whatever the proper term is) for stopping the incoming tide of oil, I agree that should have been attempted. But I'm not so sure you can lay the blame on just Obama or the Federal government.... surely the local counties (Parishes), townships, or even the state has equipment more readily at hand, then the Federal government does. So, where have they been?

                          Also, there doesn't appear to be much integrity to mounds of sand... no matter how large they may be. Ocean waves have a history of simply eroding away whatever we place in their path.

                          Yes, there is no question whatsoever that there has been very little governing of the oil business.... and guess what??? That's the way most of the country likes it!!!! We'd much prefer to drive our massive SUV's and other toys than we want to save a few hundred pelicans. You don't have to go back too far in just this forum... to read a lot of opinions about why we shouldn't be restricting any oil drilling in the Gulf or anywhere else off shore. "Drill Baby Drill" has pretty much been the heartbeat of popular opinion. It is only when things go terribly wrong, does the county get up off it's butt and start looking to blame somebody.

                          Right now we are going through similar beginnings here in NY State... we are supposedly sitting on decades worth of natural gas deposits in the "Marsellus Shale". And everywhere in our region we are seeing hundreds of "wild catters" coming in and drilling. The oil lobby has done a great job of seeing to it that these new ventures are outside of the governing powers of the Federal EPA... and are therefore only restricted by whatever the state and local government regulators can come up with.

                          At this time, those local regulators are almost totally ignorant or even non-existant. Private landowners are threatened and also enticed by possible riches; many not having a clue as to the environmental concerns caused by hydrocracking. Nor are they aware that the standard lease-agreements give the oil companies full-rights to renew on their own... or simply walk away, leaving any environment cleanup/damage solely in the hands of the landowner.

                          Meanwhile local government only sees new sources of revenue... possible new jobs, and an enrichment of decades of economic decay. With only that in mind, the local greedy politicians are spending dwindling budgets to enhance old roads for the oil-company truck traffic, and in some cases they are taking payments, in lieu of taxes (PILOT) from the oil companies.

                          And yet here we are, with spillage already occuring... well water contaminated, water sources disappearing as the hydro-cracking disrupts the natural flow of springs... and the introduction of untold-chemicals are seeping into farm lands and water supplies around many sites.

                          We as a people all too often are very short sited... we blame the environmentalist for not letting oil companies drill on our land, but we don't seem to envision the massive pollution and ruining of environment.

                          It matters little, perhaps in the newer regions of our country, but here in a state like NY, we've seen what irresponsible industry and pro-industry government can do. We've seen our lakes full of mercury, our lands laden with lead, PCBs, and many, many other industrial by-products. We've seen the land literally-explode with places like "Love Canal".

                          We've spent the last several decades trying to clean up our lakes and rivers, and suburban living places... and no where in any of this were the industries that caused the pollution. They simply have moved away, or gone out of business, leaving the NY Taxpayers to foot the bill and to live and die with cancers and other life-taking chemical contaminations.

                          So while we now blame our current government and President... we conveniently seem to forget that it was the past government that allowed all this to occur without regulation.. and where regulation was in place, they removed it. And we forget that we voted and voted again in support of that.

                          And when this is over, or probably I should say... when this is just old news, we'll once again forget and in that forgetting we will once again thirst for more "fun" and the oil that we need for that fun. We will once again forget about "pollution", "environmental hazards", and Pelicans suffering on the beach... after all, what's a bunch of pelicans got to do with with any our your needs.

                          It's all very sad at the moment... but soon most of us will forget about it and move on to whatever will set us up for the next great catastrophy



                          CWS
                          Last edited by CWSmith; 06-06-2010, 01:01 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

                            Why exactly would anyone want the government to get involved in this? What possible good can a bunch of ex-lawyers and businessmen be here? I guarantee that BP has called in anyone and everyone with any expertise on deep ocean drilling to work on this problem. Personally, I am delighted to see Obama at a McCartney concert. I'd rather have him there than sticking his fingers into something he knows nothing about. Besides political posturing, what can he do anyway? The rig is owned by a foreign company. The rig and spill are in international waters and we have no jurisdiction
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Day 48 In The Gulf..........

                              Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                              While I'm NOT there on the gulf coast to see any of this first hand (I guess I'm almost as neglectful as the government), you can pretty much see from all the video that the booms are not very efficient at curbing the tide of oil. Looking at the infrared footage that was shot, you could see that the pollution is not restricted by the booms. The oil appears to be very thick and therefore heavy, not totally coming to the surface...so much of it simply flows under the booms.

                              As far as providing dikes (or whatever the proper term is) for stopping the incoming tide of oil, I agree that should have been attempted. But I'm not so sure you can lay the blame on just Obama or the Federal government.... surely the local counties (Parishes), townships, or even the state has equipment more readily at hand, then the Federal government does. So, where have they been?

                              Also, there doesn't appear to be much integrity to mounds of sand... no matter how large they may be. Ocean waves have a history of simply eroding away whatever we place in their path.

                              Yes, there is no question whatsoever that there has been very little governing of the oil business.... and guess what??? That's the way most of the country likes it!!!! We'd much prefer to drive our massive SUV's and other toys than we want to save a few hundred pelicans. You don't have to go back too far in just this forum... to read a lot of opinions about why we shouldn't be restricting any oil drilling in the Gulf or anywhere else off shore. "Drill Baby Drill" has pretty much been the heartbeat of popular opinion. It is only when things go terribly wrong, does the county get up off it's butt and start looking to blame somebody.

                              Right now we are going through similar beginnings here in NY State... we are supposedly sitting on decades worth of natural gas deposits in the "Marsellus Shale". And everywhere in our region we are seeing hundreds of "wild catters" coming in and drilling. The oil lobby has done a great job of seeing to it that these new ventures are outside of the governing powers of the Federal EPA... and are therefore only restricted by whatever the state and local government regulators can come up with.

                              At this time, those local regulators are almost totally ignorant or even non-existant. Private landowners are threatened and also enticed by possible riches; many not having a clue as to the environmental concerns caused by hydrocracking. Nor are they aware that the standard lease-agreements give the oil companies full-rights to renew on their own... or simply walk away, leaving any environment cleanup/damage solely in the hands of the landowner.

                              Meanwhile local government only sees new sources of revenue... possible new jobs, and an enrichment of decades of economic decay. With only that in mind, the local greedy politicians are spending dwindling budgets to enhance old roads for the oil-company truck traffic, and in some cases they are taking payments, in lieu of taxes (PILOT) from the oil companies.

                              And yet here we are, with spillage already occuring... well water contaminated, water sources disappearing as the hydro-cracking disrupts the natural flow of springs... and the introduction of untold-chemicals are seeping into farm lands and water supplies around many sites.

                              We as a people all too often are very short sited... we blame the environmentalist for not letting oil companies drill on our land, but we don't seem to envision the massive pollution and ruining of environment.

                              It matters little, perhaps in the newer regions of our country, but here in a state like NY, we've seen what irresponsible industry and pro-industry government can do. We've seen our lakes full of mercury, our lands laden with lead, PCBs, and many, many other industrial by-products. We've seen the land literally-explode with places like "Love Canal".

                              We've spent the last several decades trying to clean up our lakes and rivers, and suburban living places... and no where in any of this were the industries that caused the pollution. They simply have moved away, or gone out of business, leaving the NY Taxpayers to foot the bill and to live and die with cancers and other life-taking chemical contaminations.

                              So while we now blame our current government and President... we conveniently seem to forget that it was the past government that allowed all this to occur without regulation.. and where regulation was in place, they removed it. And we forget that we voted and voted again in support of that.

                              And when this is over, or probably I should say... when this is just old news, we'll once again forget and in that forgetting we will once again thirst for more "fun" and the oil that we need for that fun. We will once again forget about "pollution", "environmental hazards", and Pelicans suffering on the beach... after all, what's a bunch of pelicans got to do with with any our your needs.

                              It's all very sad at the moment... but soon most of us will forget about it and move on to whatever will set us up for the next great catastrophy



                              CWS
                              Actually the local Governments have been begging for the berms. The idea is to build them out on the barrier islands and between the islands to keep the oil from getting into the wetlands. They also build them on the beach so they limit the size of the area they will have to clean up. When the Federal Government would not build them they asked permission to build them themselves. Instead they were told they could not build them without permits and the Army Corp was looking at it. Just last week the Corp finally approved less that 25% of the requested projects and will only pay for 20% of those approved.

                              I don't know what real jobs are going to be created by this. My sons company has just had their fifth layoff due to the spill. Fishing fleets are sitting idles which means docks are sitting idle. Yesterday the interviewed ship yards where they are laying off because of the drilling moratorium. This is a bad time to live on the Gulf.

                              As for the current Administration, they are not responsible for all of this mess but they will not even accept the blame or the responsibility for what they are to blame for.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment

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