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  • #46
    Re: Playing Politics

    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
    Two camps or not I guarantee you that if amnesty is offered less than 1/4 of them would take it. Why would they? Put yourself in Pedro's shoes. Since at the current time nobody is harassing him or threatening deportation why would he want amnesty and the chance to get on the tax wagon? Why would he want to have to pay for his health insurance instead of rolling into the ER and getting treated for free. Why would he want auto insurance or any of the other amenities that all take a chunk out of his 7 dollar an hour paycheck. Everyone needs to stop hashing this issue out with their emotions and start looking at it from a pragmatic point of vies. Put yourself in Pedro's shoes and do the math.
    I agree that amnesty would be only a part of the solution, we need totally secure borders. I keep hearing about "our grandchildren" paying for our overspending and misdeeds, well I don't think we have that long until it all falls apart. Postive thinkers will shake their heads at the doom and gloom folks like myself spout, but people who take a real hard look at things see differently.

    Our economy and society can no longer support and allow a subculture that takes jobs no one else will do, not pay income tax, burden our schools, hosptials..., and commit crimes.

    Our economy can no longer afford the loss of jobs to china in return for inexpensive products, loans from china and the rest of the world to pay for our overspending, wars that cost us billions of dollars and thousands of lives!

    We are comming to the end of our rope, millions who are unemployed will soon lose their benefits, homes and hope. While thousands of Americans line up for the next gadget from china, millions of lives are hanging in the balance.

    We are in real serious trouble, and yet the trials and tribulations of lindsey lohan and lebron james are newsworthy. Amazing!

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Playing Politics

      I had to stop listening to Beck because it's too depressing. I fear that many of the predictions he makes will ( already are ) come true. The solutions are too painful for most to contemplate. There will be some very hard times ahead for out children. Meanwhile everyone is placated with 3" screens and a bunch of buttons.

      Nero fiddled while Rome burned
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Playing Politics

        RMFAOL!! MSNBC DOESN'T LIE! !
        Ray

        “Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.”— Francisco d'Anconia
        Atlas Shrugged (Part 2, Chapter 2, Page 411)

        www.mauiplumbinginc.com

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Playing Politics

          Oh come on.. Chris Matthews gets a tingling feeling in his leg every time Obama speaks


          None of them outright lie. What they do is spin. They take bits and pieces of things out of context and reprouce them to suit their needs
          sigpic

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          • #50
            Re: Playing Politics

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            Two camps or not I guarantee you that if amnesty is offered less than 1/4 of them would take it. Why would they?
            Why would they take it? Pretty simple. In conjunction with the carrot of amnesty is the draconian stick of deportation. You simply can not offer amnesty as an alternative. It is an either/or offer.

            Come out of the shadows, pay your dues and go about your way. Continue to live in the shadows and you will be deported, no questions asked, no review, no legal rights and no re-entry. A permanent ban.

            Sure, some they may try to sneak back in, but how will they earn a living?

            In order to flush the ones that do not want amnesty out of the shadows, there needs to be an absolute zero tolerance for hiring illegals, starting now.

            Once employers KNOW they will face severe legal ramifications for employing illegals, you will see many illegals that have established roots here signing u[ for amnesty. The rest will ultimately be forced to return to Mexico.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Playing Politics

              Originally posted by mpm View Post
              RMFAOL!! MSNBC DOESN'T LIE! !
              Show me one lie.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Playing Politics

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                Oh come on.. Chris Matthews gets a tingling feeling in his leg every time Obama speaks
                Matthews is a pundit. He is allowed to editorialize.


                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                None of them outright lie. What they do is spin. They take bits and pieces of things out of context and reprouce them to suit their needs
                Except for the folks on Fox News. I know the Fox viewers have been conditioned to believe O'Reilly when he says that Media Matters spread lies, but have any of you actually gone and looked at the info they have compiled on O'Reilly? Or Beck? Hannity? Limbaugh?

                O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity, Fox and Friends outright lie, not spin, outright lie, on a daily basis. To call it anything else is simply a willful distortion of the definition of truth.


                MSNBC does not call themselves a news channel. If you think they consider themselves a news channel then you are willfully ignorant. Just look at their tagline. I think it is difficult to be confused as to what MSNBC claims to be. besides, they give three prime time hours to Joe Scarborough every morning? Where is Fox's counter balance?

                Sorry, but when you call yourself a news channel (FOX News), one has a reasonable expectation that the channel engages in some measure of journalism. But in reality, what is served is partisan information.

                On The O'Reilly Factor, Bill O'Reilly and Fox News legal analysts Lis Wiehl and Kimberly Guilfoyle criticized President Obama's administration for not pursuing criminal charges against members of the New Black Panther Party. In fact, it was the Justice Department under President Bush that decided not to pursue criminal charges in the case.


                Wiehl: Obama DOJ "absolutely" should have pursued criminal charges. On the July 6 edition of The O'Reilly Factor, Wiehl said that "there's absolutely no reason" that the Obama DOJ "didn't prosecute" the case. She added that "all the department did was file a civil complaint" against the Panthers, but "they never pursued criminal charges." When O'Reilly stated, "But you say they should have done that," Wiehl replied "absolutely."

                Guilfoyle: "No justification" for AG Holder supposedly not filing criminal charges. When Bill O'Reilly stated to Guilfoyle and Wiehl "you both don't know why the Attorney General of the United States chose not to" file criminal charges against the Panthers, Guilfoyle replied, "there's no justification."

                O'Reilly: "Nobody differs" on whether Obama DOJ should have brought criminal charges. Referencing the decision not to pursue criminal charges, O'Reilly said that Attorney General Eric Holder "did it" because "his ideology comes into every decision." Wiehl replied that "it's not just the criminal charges, ok, let's say we can differ about that, maybe that the criminal charges shouldn't have been brought." O'Reilly interjected, "Nobody differs about that." Wiehl continued, saying that the Obama Justice Department "won the civil complaint, they had them and they let them go." O'Reilly replied, "[i]t's on Holder, with a very strong Obama component."
                This is just one case were O'Reilly and his guests are either completely incompetent or outright lying through their teeth.

                In his May 14 testimony before the United States Commission on Civil Rights, Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez said that the Bush administration's Justice Department "determined that the facts did not constitute a prosecutable violation of the criminal statutes" but instead decided to "file a civil action on January 7, 2009." From Perez's testimony:

                PEREZ: Moving to the matter at hand, the events occurred on November 4th, 2008. The Department became aware of these events on Election Day and decided to conduct further inquiry.

                After reviewing the matter, the Civil Rights Division determined that the facts did not constitute a prosecutable violation of the criminal statutes. The Department did, however, file a civil action on January 7th, 2009, seeking injunctive and declaratory relief under 11(b) against four defendants.
                This is a relatively minor act of revisionist history by O'Reilly. There are countless examples of O'Reilly passionately claiming he never said something, yet the tape doesn't lie.

                Beck is just simply bat dung crazy and wouldn't know American history if he was two hundred years old.
                Last edited by SpiffPeters; 07-11-2010, 01:53 PM.

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                • #53
                  Re: Playing Politics

                  Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                  Show me one lie.
                  Ed Schultz: "The Free Market System Has Failed The American People"

                  No ed it has not what has failed is crony capitalism. Capitalism run by the federal reserve, capitalism with massive government intervention.
                  Capitalism that says I must subsidize the incompetent.
                  Capitalism that says I must help poor people buy homes they can't afford (which causes massive inflation in home prices) even though I don't qualify for the same help but can't afford a home on my own.
                  Capitalism that says government spending is the way to stimulate the economy.
                  Capitalism that socializes losses but privatizes profits.
                  Capitalism that says Keynes was a genius! (Keynes to economics is what a witch doctor is to medicine.)

                  I don't have TV, I have heard Ed on talk radio and yes he does lie.
                  I suggest you turn off your TV and read a book.
                  Ray

                  “Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.”— Francisco d'Anconia
                  Atlas Shrugged (Part 2, Chapter 2, Page 411)

                  www.mauiplumbinginc.com

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Playing Politics

                    That's all well and good Spiff but as of now, nobody's deporting them. They have virtually nothing to fear. Now if you are going to actually start deporting and enforcing the laws maybe then they would be up for amnesty but the way things are now, no way.
                    sigpic

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                    • #55
                      Re: Playing Politics

                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                      Actually Arizona goes a long way to punish employers who hire illegals. If found guilty the could lose their licensing for doing business.

                      Mark
                      This will never hold too much weight at influencing business' to not hire illegal immigrants. They'll change the name of the business or put it in someone else's and keep on trucking.

                      I'll say it again, place a $10,000.00 fine on ANYONE hiring illegal labor and enforce it strongly. Either direct or indirect. Doesn't matter if you own a landscaping business or are a private citizen hiring an illegal to clean your house. Fine, fine, fine. Any fines disbursed to publicly funded hospitals emergency rooms.

                      That's all the U.S. has to do. Then it will self regulate without all of the red tape, arrests, deportation etc.

                      Saves on both ends.

                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Playing Politics

                        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                        This will never hold too much weight at influencing business' to not hire illegal immigrants. They'll change the name of the business or put it in someone else's and keep on trucking.

                        I'll say it again, place a $10,000.00 fine on ANYONE hiring illegal labor and enforce it strongly. Either direct or indirect. Doesn't matter if you own a landscaping business or are a private citizen hiring an illegal to clean your house. Fine, fine, fine. Any fines disbursed to publicly funded hospitals emergency rooms.

                        That's all the U.S. has to do. Then it will self regulate without all of the red tape, arrests, deportation etc.

                        Saves on both ends.

                        J.C.
                        I'm not so sure about that. Say you are a Plumbing Contractor with 20-employees, are you really going to risk your Contractor's License by hiring Illegals? Now take a restaurant who will lose the business license, liquor license, health department license and who knows what else and you start to see a reason to not hire illegals.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Playing Politics

                          Problem is that we already have the laws in place, it's that nobody wants to enforce them. I wonder how many cops and other officials are paid to look the other way?
                          sigpic

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                          • #58
                            Re: Playing Politics

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Problem is that we already have the laws in place, it's that nobody wants to enforce them. I wonder how many cops and other officials are paid to look the other way?
                            No need to wonder, with 12 million illegals or more and the federal government refusing to do anything, does it matter?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Playing Politics

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              I'm not so sure about that. Say you are a Plumbing Contractor with 20-employees, are you really going to risk your Contractor's License by hiring Illegals? Now take a restaurant who will lose the business license, liquor license, health department license and who knows what else and you start to see a reason to not hire illegals.

                              Mark
                              I been to the Arizona and California a couple times for Border Patrol, I have seen it, the answer is yes.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Playing Politics

                                Originally posted by mpm View Post
                                Ed Schultz: "The Free Market System Has Failed The American People"

                                No ed it has not what has failed is crony capitalism.
                                This is an opinion. He isn't stating that so and so did such and such thing.

                                NAFTA was billed as a boon to the free market. We somehow thought the words free market also meant fair market. So in a way, the free market has indeed served the masters it is intended to serve. I'm waiting for a fair market to emerge. Just my opinion.

                                It's an opinion just like these are your opinion:

                                Capitalism run by the federal reserve, capitalism with massive government intervention.
                                I agree with this. The guy was responsible for one of the biggest swindles on Wall Street got promoted to secretary of the treasury. Hank Paulson should be behind bars. And Geitner not far behind.

                                But what are you going to do? Paulson held our 401k's hostage. Wall Street would collapse if we didn't hand over $750 billion within 72 hours. He wrote up the terms of that agreement on three sheets of a legal pad, and one of conditions of the government giving Wall Street the money was that the government could not ask how or where that money was spent. You can't make this stuff up if you try.

                                Capitalism that says I must subsidize the incompetent
                                I agree on this too. The meek should not survive in business.

                                Capitalism that says I must help poor people buy homes they can't afford (which causes massive inflation in home prices) even though I don't qualify for the same help but can't afford a home on my own.
                                You've over simplified to the point that you are only trying to score political points. The mortgage lenders did not care who they sold mortgages to. They made their money upfront on selling the mortgages. They were only interested in generating mortgages. Those mortgages, some or many of them knowingly bad, were securitized and so on and so on. It was a game of three card monty and AIG ended up holding one of the largest debts thanks to Hank Paulson.


                                Capitalism that says government spending is the way to stimulate the economy
                                We will have to agree to disagree on this. Let's see, we can borrow $1.3 trillion to give tax cuts to the wealthiest in the hopes that it will create jobs and stimulate the economy, we can spend over a trillion dollars trying to rebuild and democratized Iraq, but we can't give the middle class a $250 billion tax cut? Repairing infrastructure doesn't generate business for local contractors and suppliers? That local merchants don't want to sell goods and services to people on unemployment (when was the last time you saw a retailer ask a customer if that dollar came from the government?)

                                Capitalism that socializes losses but privatizes profits
                                Hey, a rising tides raises all boats. It's all part of that trickle down theory. This is the down side to living in a plutocracy.

                                Capitalism that says Keynes was a genius! (Keynes to economics is what a witch doctor is to medicine.)
                                Keynes' macroeconomics has gained traction in the past three years. In 2008, Martin Wolf, chief economics commentator at the Financial Times, announced the death of the dream of global free-market capitalism. In the same month macroeconomist James K. Galbraith used the 25th Annual Milton Friedman Distinguished Lecture to launch a sweeping attack against the consensus for monetarist economics and argued that Keynesian economics were far more relevant for tackling the emerging crises. Economist Robert Shiller had begun advocating robust government intervention to tackle the financial crises, specifically citing Keynes.

                                Link


                                I don't have TV, I have heard Ed on talk radio and yes he does lie.
                                Since you don't have a TV, how are how you are qualified to weigh in on something you don't to watch?

                                Like I said, please produce one documented lie where an MSNBC host attributed an action, lack of action, deed or words that are demonstrably false.

                                You do realize that if Fox News didn't engage in outright lies that MSNBC would lose half of their material. Honestly, many of the lies made by Fox News are simply too easy for MSNBC to debunk.

                                Like Glenn Beck the other day. He was curious why there was no footage of senator Bird filibustering the civil rights act. Is it some lefty conspiracy? Did someone steal the film? hhmmm.
                                Last edited by SpiffPeters; 07-11-2010, 06:28 PM.

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